Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

1   Van der Sar         Reina
2   Neville                Finnan
3   Evra                  Aurelio
4   Heinze               Arbeloa
5   Ferdinand           Carra
6   Brown               Hyypia
7   Ronaldo             Gonzales
8   Rooney             Kuyt
9   Saha                Crouch
11   Giggs              Riise
13   Park               Pennant
14   Smith             Bellamy
15   Vidic              Agger
16   Carrick            Alonso
18   Scholes          Gerrard
20   Solskjaer         Fowler
21   Dong             
22   O'Shea           Sissoko
23   Richardson
24   Fletcher         Mascherano
27   Silvestre

I have tried to match them the best I can without being too ridiculous or biased and unfortunately I have to say that when it come to quality they have more to offer.   You could argue and adjust the comparison and no doubt make it look better, but would that honestly help.

[EddieC]

"but I feel we shouldn't be ringing the changes just for the sake of it"

i agree but we should be making changes if we want to challenge for the league

and we aren't honestly going to miss any of the players i suggested if we get in a couple of decent strikers

i think we should keep Kewell as when fit he makes a big difference, he is so anoyed when it comes to injuries but there is only so much bad luck a player can get, once he returns he should be brilliant. If he gets injured again then il re-think but untill then...

Look back over my original post. Go on, actually read it this time, and take a look at Manure's squad. That's not a squad that someone's proposed should be good enough, that's a squad that's pretty much nailed on to win the league. Where is our squad lacking compared to that? The only area I can see is wingers & one class striker, just one. Are you honestly saying that Saha, Smith & Solskjaer are any better than Kuyt, Crouch & Bellamy? The only difference is we don't have a Rooney in our team, and we don't have a Ronaldo or Giggs providing the service for our front men.

Kuyt I agree, doesn't seem to be good enough to be leading the line. But with a class finisher up there with him the partnership will be a lot more balanced, Kuyt putting in the work & his partner benefitting from a lot of it. Who knows, in time, maybe his scoring rate will improve dramatically too, after all he's scored more than Drogba did in his first season.

Far too many snap judgements in your post for my liking. You've made your mind up on Arbeloa after 5 or 6 games have you? And how many times can you honestly say you've watched Paletta play? I also see you're in the camp that wants to see Kewell get yet another chance. You go on about how we have to make these changes to win the league & then you say that? Simple fact is, that's not the mentality of a title winning squad. You cannot hold on to players for sentimental reasons, like they're a legend, or they've got the talent if they can stay fit. Every single member of your squad has to be fit enough to play AT LEAST 40 games a season. Kewell cannot guarantee this, so he has to go. The only way I would consider keeping him is on a pay as you play deal, and let's face it, he'd still have earned nothing if he was on that deal this season.

[EddieC]

1   Van der Sar         Reina
2   Neville                Finnan
3   Evra                  Aurelio
4   Heinze               Arbeloa
5   Ferdinand           Carra
6   Brown               Hyypia
7   Ronaldo             Gonzales
8   Rooney             Kuyt
9   Saha                Crouch
11   Giggs              Riise
13   Park               Pennant
14   Smith             Bellamy
15   Vidic              Agger
16   Carrick            Alonso
18   Scholes          Gerrard
20   Solskjaer         Fowler
21   Dong             
22   O'Shea           Sissoko
23   Richardson
24   Fletcher         Mascherano
27   Silvestre

I have tried to match them the best I can without being too ridiculous or biased and unfortunately I have to say that when it come to quality they have more to offer.   You could argue and adjust the comparison and no doubt make it look better, but would that honestly help.

I'd say that's a good & fair comparison s@int, and looking at that, I'd say those lineups are pretty evenly matched with the exception of three places: Ronaldo vs Gonzales, Giggs vs Riise, and Rooney vs Kuyt.

I honestly feel we're in the same position as last summer, two wingers & a striker needed, but we need to get the right ones this time.

[account deleted by request]

To be fair Eddie, Smith & Solskjaer are bit part players at United , Kuyt Bellamy and Crouch are our main strike force!

Ronaldo vs Gonzales, Giggs vs Riise, and Rooney vs Kuyt. The problem is where do we get the Eqivolent of Ronaldo, Giggs and Rooney from? Kaka, Tevez and ?

[duk]

Smith is better than Kuyt, Bellamy and Crouch IMO

and i think we need two simply because when we had both owen and fowler you'd never doubt at least one of them to score

Arbeloa hasn't played well and ok i could be wrong but i don't see him getting good enough to break into the first team, i think Lee Young-Pyo would be a much better buy.

Kewell is as good as Giggs only Giggs plays almost every game, i believe that Kewell once he is back will match Giggs and once he retires will be the best Left sided player in this league.

We have got far too many strikers yet none of them are good enough so why keep them all?

[grayghost]

Everyone keeps saying we dont need loads of changes just a tweak here and there. No we dont we need at least 5 new players to even start to compete for the prem next season I mean look how many points we are behind it will be the same again if we dont get the class in we need

[EddieC]

To be fair Eddie, Smith & Solskjaer are bit part players at United , Kuyt Bellamy and Crouch are our main strike force!

Ronaldo vs Gonzales, Giggs vs Riise, and Rooney vs Kuyt. The problem is where do we get the Eqivolent of Ronaldo, Giggs and Rooney from? Kaka, Tevez and ?

I never said it was gonna be easy S@int 

Agree about that Bellamy & Crouch shouldn't be our main strike force, with a new arrival in the summer hopefully they shouldn't be. I still believe Kuyt will do well for us, he just needs someone to benefit from the hard work he puts in.

[EddieC]

Everyone keeps saying we dont need loads of changes just a tweak here and there. No we dont we need at least 5 new players to even start to compete for the prem next season I mean look how many points we are behind it will be the same again if we dont get the class in we need

We are so many points behind, as we were last season, due to our poor start in the league, not because of how we've performed from October onwards. Both times this has been because of major upheavals in the summer IMO. If we can have a relatively settled squad at the start of the season we can hit the ground running, the second half of the season's never been a problem and is where Rafa's rotation pays dividends.

[Bad Bob]

To be fair Eddie, Smith & Solskjaer are bit part players at United , Kuyt Bellamy and Crouch are our main strike force!

Ronaldo vs Gonzales, Giggs vs Riise, and Rooney vs Kuyt. The problem is where do we get the Eqivolent of Ronaldo, Giggs and Rooney from? Kaka, Tevez and ?

But nonetheless you've helped Eddie make his point quite nicely, mate.  It's not wholesale changes that are required but that extra bit of quality in attacking areas.  We match United in some areas of the pitch and our bench is genuinely stronger but they p!ss all over us in terms of attacking quality.

If--and I recognize it's a big if--Kewell returns to fitness and form next season, that closes the gap a little because he approaches Giggs in many areas of his game.  And where does Garcia fit into this calculus.  I recognize that neither, in their own ways, are utterly reliable but they still bring attacking quality to the side.

We're not going to just go out and uncover the next Ronaldo, I don't think, but another creative winger is an essential buy.  And we must land a top striker--one of the calibre that could at least challenge Rooney and Saha for a starting berth were they in the United side.  Stu will say we need our own Ferdinand as well but I think, given our system, Agger will do the business.  Otherwise, we have--on paper--a squad that matches up pretty well to the champions elect.  Now, anyone care to do this exercise with the Chelsea squad?   

[Bad Bob]

Smith is better than Kuyt, Bellamy and Crouch IMO

and i think we need two simply because when we had both owen and fowler you'd never doubt at least one of them to score

Arbeloa hasn't played well and ok i could be wrong but i don't see him getting good enough to break into the first team, i think Lee Young-Pyo would be a much better buy.

Kewell is as good as Giggs only Giggs plays almost every game, i believe that Kewell once he is back will match Giggs and once he retires will be the best Left sided player in this league.

We have got far too many strikers yet none of them are good enough so why keep them all?

Lee Young-Pyo is a shocking player and nowhere near Liverpool calibre. 

[EddieC]

Smith is better than Kuyt, Bellamy and Crouch IMO

and i think we need two simply because when we had both owen and fowler you'd never doubt at least one of them to score

Arbeloa hasn't played well and ok i could be wrong but i don't see him getting good enough to break into the first team, i think Lee Young-Pyo would be a much better buy.

Kewell is as good as Giggs only Giggs plays almost every game, i believe that Kewell once he is back will match Giggs and once he retires will be the best Left sided player in this league.

We have got far too many strikers yet none of them are good enough so why keep them all?

   

Smith's better than Crouch, Kuyt & Bellamy? At what exactly? I'm not saying our three lads are the best, and I admit we need to improve on them, but Alan Smith? Get a clue.

Arbeloa hasn't played well? Is this the same Arbeloa that marked Lionel Messi out of two legs against Barca? When he did that and people were raving about him I said it was too early to get excited, similarly I will say bad performances against Chelsea & Pompey aren't enough to start writing him off. So far I would say that he's shown potential, but like any young lad in a new country he isn't consistent yet. The two legs against Barca & the game against Reading showed what he can do, definately not worth selling yet.

Now here's the gem:

Kewell is as good as Giggs only Giggs plays almost every game

Why do you think that is d.ickhead? Because Giggs is rarely injured. I accept that Harry Kewell is a very talented player, but if he is never fit, what does it matter?

Finally you ask why keep all the strikers, I haven't said that we should. Personally I would keep Kuyt & Crouch, as I've already said I feel Kuyt will benefit from a better strike partner, and Crouch provides an option that whilst not ideal for every game, is very useful sometimes & there's no-one around that does it better.

[grayghost]

Everyone keeps saying we dont need loads of changes just a tweak here and there. No we dont we need at least 5 new players to even start to compete for the prem next season I mean look how many points we are behind it will be the same again if we dont get the class in we need

We are so many points behind, as we were last season, due to our poor start in the league, not because of how we've performed from October onwards. Both times this has been because of major upheavals in the summer IMO. If we can have a relatively settled squad at the start of the season we can hit the ground running, the second half of the season's never been a problem and is where Rafa's rotation pays dividends.

You can't look at it that way you can't say o we had a bad start to the season thats why we are third and over 15 points behind we had a bad start because we played top teams and we were just not good enough to cause them problems in defense.
Are attacking players need shiping out now while they have some value, We need players who can hurt the top teams.Are record against the top speaks for it's self.

[duk]

o sorry, no need to shout or give abuse!! 





"Kewell is as good as Giggs only Giggs plays almost every game"


"Why do you think that is d.ickhead? Because Giggs is rarely injured"

that's the point i was making!!!!!

what if Kewell played the same amount of games as Giggs? what if this is his last injury and he has a couple of full seasons? he would easily match Giggs


I think we should sell Crouch beacuse he is our most on form striker ... sell him while he's hot and get the maximum amount of money for him

no need for abuse just because we don't agree

[EddieC]

Everyone keeps saying we dont need loads of changes just a tweak here and there. No we dont we need at least 5 new players to even start to compete for the prem next season I mean look how many points we are behind it will be the same again if we dont get the class in we need

We are so many points behind, as we were last season, due to our poor start in the league, not because of how we've performed from October onwards. Both times this has been because of major upheavals in the summer IMO. If we can have a relatively settled squad at the start of the season we can hit the ground running, the second half of the season's never been a problem and is where Rafa's rotation pays dividends.

You can't look at it that way you can't say o we had a bad start to the season thats why we are third and over 15 points behind we had a bad start because we played top teams and we were just not good enough to cause them problems in defense.
Are attacking players need shiping out now while they have some value, We need players who can hurt the top teams.Are record against the top speaks for it's self.

I think I can say our bad start is the reason we're so far behind actually.

In our first 10 league games of the season we dropped 16 points. You say they were all against good opposition? 10 of these points were dropped against Sheffield Utd, Everton, Bolton and Blackburn, all points that shouldn't have been dropped. If it weren't for these dropped points we'd only be 3 points off Sh!tski now. Add to that the fact that we wouldn't have put a reserve team out on Saturday if we were so close, we could well have been level. So yes, I do think our poor start has affected our overall standing, and I do think it's due to new players needing time to settle in.

[EddieC]

o sorry, no need to shout or give abuse!! 

If it upset you that much I'll gladly apologise, but you have to expect a certain level of abuse if you post things like that.

Just be thankful Stu didn't reply, you'd probably be cutting your wrists now