Liverpool FC Forum

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:53 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
weringo wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
weringo wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:People bang on about these attributes like they are good things. But they make you predictable and stiffle attacking flair. Gerrard's goal against Sheffield United being a prime example, Fowler played one touch with his back to goal to a player who was infront of him, when has Kuyt or Crouch ever done that?

Crouch did exactly that against the barcodes last year just to name one occasion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmkIannA3Uw

Infront means closer to the goal lad when I went to school.

The points clear, Crouch didn't show great vision to play that pass, that was Gerrard being exceptional and Crouch doing what his team mate wanted. His touch, intelligence and quality made that goal, not Crouchies, It was a fantastic goal and Crouch done well, but he didn't do anythin in that goal any half decent player couldn't have done and I defy anybody to say otherwise.

Crouch always wants to stop, put a foot on the ball and pass it backwards, Robbie doesn't always want to do that. Thats his last resort, thats where the difference in vision, intelligence and quality comes in.

Last i checked "in front of him" means in front of him, if the player was closer to the goal when he had is back turned then he would be "behind him". What I think you meant to say was "ahead of him" which you could have just pointed out instead of making a sarcastic remark, but the point is Crouch played a one touch pass back to Gerrard which resulted in a goal.

The point is it was average. It was only Crouch doing what any decent player would have done. I'd have looked to do that myself in the same position.

What Fowler done for Gerrard's goal against Sheffield shown, vision, intelligence, technique and speed of thought. He created it, Gerrard created that goal at Newcastle for Gerrard with a peice of magic. Simple as that.

if Crouch does something its 'average'...if Fowler does the same thing its magic...

This completely and utterly shows your lack of understanding of football 100%.

Why do you even bother with attempting to talk about something you know absoloutely nothing about?

What exactly did Crouch do there than any Sunday league player couldn't?

he done nothing special and neither did Fowler. it was a ismple move.Fowler played like a sunday league player against PSV. His pass back to Crouch was simple, yet you spouted s**t as if he'd run through 7 men.

Noone really agree's with you and i find it sad that you're slating Rafa because he won't play Fowler. This is our manager who is taking us into our 2nd Champions league semi final in 3 years!

He's not good enough. Look at his league record this season: 3 goals in 13 games...all from the pen spot! the sad thing is, Robbie knows he's past it...his face at PSV said it all. He looked knackered and upset. Liverpool went into decline because we kept players in our team who were LONG past it. John Barnes, Ian Rush are 2 prime examples of players who stayed 2-3 years longer than they should have. Listening to gobsh*tes like you thikning we should have players like Fowler starting everygame is a joke...look at your poll, you're wrong.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:10 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:Its not even worth discussing football with you as you've proved many times in the past, when challenged by myself, Ivor, Scottbot, Ace Ventura and just about everyone else with an ounce of knowledge you don't have valid reasons or opinions for thinking the way you do.

I'll quote myself again 7_Kewell...

The only arguements you've ever came up with is "Nigel Worthington thinks you are wrong", "nobody agrees with you" and "he looked knackered" you could tell by the look on his face".

Do you know what? I disagree with anyone who says Lampard's world class or the second best player in the world as he was voted by the majority...

Again, I put it to you to provide an arguement and I'm challenging you to debate and reason why you think the way you do... You're next post on the matter will either be to try and mock your way out of it or you'll say theres no debating anything with me simply because of you're lack of knowledge, you do your best to mock my posts and knowledge of the game, so lets see yours...

I'm holding my breath in anticipation... :laugh:

by **MillyLFC** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:31 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:Do you know what? I disagree with anyone who says Lampard's world class or the second best player in the world as he was voted by the majority....

If Frank Lampard is world class........
Dirk Kuyt has a good first touch

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:32 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:Its not even worth discussing football with you as you've proved many times in the past, when challenged by myself, Ivor, Scottbot, Ace Ventura and just about everyone else with an ounce of knowledge you don't have valid reasons or opinions for thinking the way you do.

I'll quote myself again 7_Kewell...

The only arguements you've ever came up with is "Nigel Worthington thinks you are wrong", "nobody agrees with you" and "he looked knackered" you could tell by the look on his face".

Do you know what? I disagree with anyone who says Lampard's world class or the second best player in the world as he was voted by the majority...

Again, I put it to you to provide an arguement and I'm challenging you to debate and reason why you think the way you do... You're next post on the matter will either be to try and mock your way out of it or you'll say theres no debating anything with me simply because of you're lack of knowledge, you do your best to mock my posts and knowledge of the game, so lets see yours...

I'm holding my breath in anticipation...

stu..he cannot play 90 mins of football. Shouldn't that be enough? Or perhaps his display against PSV...again that is enough for most. Or perhaps he hasn't scored ANY goals from open play in the league? nope? Well i guess the basic reasoning is he's not good enough to get in the side...that''s what rafa has decided and that's good enough for me.

Look at your poll stu...you're just embarressing yourself (again)

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:35 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:Its not even worth discussing football with you as you've proved many times in the past, when challenged by myself, Ivor, Scottbot, Ace Ventura and just about everyone else with an ounce of knowledge you don't have valid reasons or opinions for thinking the way you do.

I'll quote myself again 7_Kewell...

The only arguements you've ever came up with is "Nigel Worthington thinks you are wrong", "nobody agrees with you" and "he looked knackered" you could tell by the look on his face".

Do you know what? I disagree with anyone who says Lampard's world class or the second best player in the world as he was voted by the majority...

Again, I put it to you to provide an arguement and I'm challenging you to debate and reason why you think the way you do... You're next post on the matter will either be to try and mock your way out of it or you'll say theres no debating anything with me simply because of you're lack of knowledge, you do your best to mock my posts and knowledge of the game, so lets see yours...

I'm holding my breath in anticipation...

stu..he cannot play 90 mins of football. Shouldn't that be enough? Or perhaps his display against PSV...again that is enough for most. Or perhaps he hasn't scored ANY goals from open play in the league? nope? Well i guess the basic reasoning is he's not good enough to get in the side...that''s what rafa has decided and that's good enough for me.

Look at your poll stu...you're just embarressing yourself (again)

I'm embarressing myself and the best you can do is come up with a post like that?

Ok Solskjaer! :laugh:

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:38 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:Its not even worth discussing football with you as you've proved many times in the past, when challenged by myself, Ivor, Scottbot, Ace Ventura and just about everyone else with an ounce of knowledge you don't have valid reasons or opinions for thinking the way you do.

I'll quote myself again 7_Kewell...

The only arguements you've ever came up with is "Nigel Worthington thinks you are wrong", "nobody agrees with you" and "he looked knackered" you could tell by the look on his face".

Do you know what? I disagree with anyone who says Lampard's world class or the second best player in the world as he was voted by the majority...

Again, I put it to you to provide an arguement and I'm challenging you to debate and reason why you think the way you do... You're next post on the matter will either be to try and mock your way out of it or you'll say theres no debating anything with me simply because of you're lack of knowledge, you do your best to mock my posts and knowledge of the game, so lets see yours...

I'm holding my breath in anticipation...

stu..he cannot play 90 mins of football. Shouldn't that be enough? Or perhaps his display against PSV...again that is enough for most. Or perhaps he hasn't scored ANY goals from open play in the league? nope? Well i guess the basic reasoning is he's not good enough to get in the side...that''s what rafa has decided and that's good enough for me.

Look at your poll stu...you're just embarressing yourself (again)

I'm embarressing myself and the best you can do is come up with a post like that?

Ok Solskjaer!

stu, answer my points.

*Fowler cannot play 90 mins of top flight football

*fowler has no pace or stamina

*He cannot put in 50% of the work rate our other 3 strikers put in

I could go on...but most normal people saw the PSV match as the final straw. It was cringworthy and you think that was good?

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:07 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:Its not even worth discussing football with you as you've proved many times in the past, when challenged by myself, Ivor, Scottbot, Ace Ventura and just about everyone else with an ounce of knowledge you don't have valid reasons or opinions for thinking the way you do.

I'll quote myself again 7_Kewell...

The only arguements you've ever came up with is "Nigel Worthington thinks you are wrong", "nobody agrees with you" and "he looked knackered" you could tell by the look on his face".

Do you know what? I disagree with anyone who says Lampard's world class or the second best player in the world as he was voted by the majority...

Again, I put it to you to provide an arguement and I'm challenging you to debate and reason why you think the way you do... You're next post on the matter will either be to try and mock your way out of it or you'll say theres no debating anything with me simply because of you're lack of knowledge, you do your best to mock my posts and knowledge of the game, so lets see yours...

I'm holding my breath in anticipation...

stu..he cannot play 90 mins of football. Shouldn't that be enough? Or perhaps his display against PSV...again that is enough for most. Or perhaps he hasn't scored ANY goals from open play in the league? nope? Well i guess the basic reasoning is he's not good enough to get in the side...that''s what rafa has decided and that's good enough for me.

Look at your poll stu...you're just embarressing yourself (again)

I'm embarressing myself and the best you can do is come up with a post like that?

Ok Solskjaer!

stu, answer my points.

*Fowler cannot play 90 mins of top flight football

*fowler has no pace or stamina

*He cannot put in 50% of the work rate our other 3 strikers put in

I could go on...but most normal people saw the PSV match as the final straw. It was cringworthy and you think that was good?

Why can't he play 90 minutes of top flight football? I seem to remember him scoring a last minute goal against Galatasary in the champions league earlier in the season.

He has little pace, so what?

Pace means nothing in football unless you know how to use it. People bang on about pace like its the be all and end all. The most important attributes in football are passing a ball, movement and first touch. Fowler's better than all of our other strikers in these departments. He's also a better finisher, header of a ball, has more vision, a better penalty taker, better technique, reads the flight of the ball better and reads the game better than all of our forwards.

If you actually ever played the game to a reasonable standard or even sunday league standard you'd realise that sometimes you'll come up against a player who's not particularly quick, but you can't get near them. Likewise you'd have probably played with quick nippy players who had the intelligence of a dead duck.

So are you telling me that because he doesn't have great stamina he can't last 70 minutes? Fowler scored 5 first goals last season. All of those first goals came within the first 70 minutes, I'd be quite happy for him to play 70 minutes in 60% of games and then get subbed if its not going his way... at lesat he'd have scored a hell of a lot more goals than Bellamy and Kuyt have. He'd probably have set more up aswell.

Work rate? I'm sorry, but strikers aren't there so win the ball, they're there to score and create goals. Thats why they play where they do. Besides, having one player who is told not to "work hard" while having a team with Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Riise, Carragher, Kuyt, Bellamy, Crouch, Sissoko or just about any other outfield player should not be a problem as nearly every player with have who'd get anywhere near our starting 11 has at least a good work rate.

The PSV match the final Straw? During the PSV match what exactly did Crouch, Zenden or just about anyone else do? We were 3-0 up, the lad comes on after being sat on the bench for 20 minutes and is expected to lift an average performance in which a game is already in the bag? Not only that, he's that short of match practise and sharpness the whole country forgot what he looks like? Get real lad.

Robbies not once been able to play himself into form this season and not had the matches and chances to build his fitness and form. Had he played half the games Kuyt had and played consistently for a period, he'd have probably scored more goals this season.

by **weringo** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:49 pm

Pace isn't the only thing Fowler is lacking in, he hasn't got enough strength to play in the Prem. Give him the ball and he'll stick it in the net but that is easier said than done when he so easily be marked and muscled out of the game. You can't play top flight football if all of your physical attributes are lacking.

by **Dundalk** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:12 pm

He deserves a good send off and I believe that Rafa will give him one..

Wouldnt it be nice for him to score the winner in his last game at Anfield.

by **zarababe** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:13 pm

Robbie is a legend, but he's lost it now - shame we ain't in the coca cola cup, he good have captained the team

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:16 pm

I can see where most people are coming from in all this.

I personally don't think Rob's performance against PSV was typical of what he's done when given the chance this season, but its timing was unfortunate. If he'd had a good game, and maybe nicked himself a goal, he'd definitely have figured in the games since against Man City, Boro and Wigan. Instead, he was an unused sub v Boro and didn't figure in the other two, and that shows that PSV was an opportunity missed for him.

It was a poor game v PSV, and the midfield created little or nothing for the strikers, but if any game and time cried out for Fowler to do something eye-catching to put him in the boss's plans it was that one. His part in the Crouch goal was good stuff, but it wasn't enough to turn Rafa's head. He's scored braces this season and been dropped like a stone, so the boss clearly has him as 4th in a roster of 4.

But at the same time, Rafa can't expect to play him from the start once every blue moon and expect a sharp, energetic performance. At the end of last season he got a cameo several games running, then a start, and you could see his sharpness gradually climbing. This season he's been out of the squad, let alone the first 11, for weeks at a time, and then some people are surprised and disappointed when he's not running the 100m in under 10 seconds and scoring hat-tricks.

Robbie Fowler could stay next season and do a job for us, but the boss will only get something approaching peak-era Fowler out of him if he uses the guy in runs of games. If one of the other 3 strikers had been injured for a month or so this season, I bet Rob would be flying right now. That hasn't happened, he isn't flying, and it'll take drastic circumstances to see him figuring in any game of importance before the season ends. And that is a huge shame, as I expected him to really figure this term after his frankly outstanding end to last season.

by **Dalglish** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:37 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:No place for sentiment in football.

I cried (seriously cried) when he went to Leeds, he was and always be my idol, but hes lost it, and its like watching your uncle trying to dance at a family party and making himself look like a fool, you want to stop him.

I'm with Leon on this one. As someone who has watched him recently he is a pale shadow of his old self and it's hard to watch him try and compete at this level.

I'm pretty sure he will play a part on the final day of the season in front of the Kop against Charlton and FWIW I think we will have secured 3rd place by then anyway.

Whether he does play or not will not affect his status on ther KOP as a true legend. He's up there in the Top 5 Liverpool players of all time in my opinion.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:47 pm

Dalglish wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:No place for sentiment in football.

I cried (seriously cried) when he went to Leeds, he was and always be my idol, but hes lost it, and its like watching your uncle trying to dance at a family party and making himself look like a fool, you want to stop him.

I'm with Leon on this one. As someone who has watched him recently he is a pale shadow of his old self and it's hard to watch him try and compete at this level.

I'm pretty sure he will play a part on the final day of the season in front of the Kop against Charlton and FWIW I think we will have secured 3rd place by then anyway.

Whether he does play or not will not affect his status on ther KOP as a true legend. He's up there in the Top 5 Liverpool players of all time in my opinion.

Do you want a slap?

by **gato_busta** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:58 pm

Fowler is a legend and the only natural finisher we have at the moment. There's no reason why we wouldn't finish third if he played the remaining games, but I seriously don't think he would be able to. As Daglish said. He will be there on the final game against Charlton, luckily the whole game. There really is no space for sentiment in football, as Boca showed last week against River Plate, by only playing Guillermo Barros Schelotto for the last 10 minutes even if it was his last game and a living legend for the team.

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:12 pm

I personally think Fowlers been criminally underused this season, especially considering the performances of our other strikers this season. How any one can say he's past it when he hasnt even been given a run of games to show what he can do is beyond me. Does any one seriously reckon Crouch, Bellamy and Kuyt would have scored the same amount of goals if they had been given the shocking amount of games that Robbie has?

Only last season Fowler was still scoring vital goals for us and i beleive he would have done just as well if given the opportunity, i mean he hasnt even started two games in a row this season, and i personally think that was a major balls up by Rafa.

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