Liverpool FC Forum

by **kirankara** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:21 am

Pablo i have stopped short off calling him :censored:

unlike u and peter crouch, i feel that hes lacking defensively especially when paired with a less defensively minded winger, and never offered that i know better than rafa, i just offered an oppinion of what i felt was a problem last night, and also said in another post that im sure rafa wil rectify this problem one way or another, and also said in another post that i am protective of players who are new to the league, and would be willing to give him at least a season to setlle full, but would like to see him protected whilst he settles in or given less defensive duties. Rafa also said that they caused us lots of problems and that we didnt defend well.

by **kirankara** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:23 am

pablo m8 never seen anyone agree with anything u said yet, so u calling me an idiot is a compliment as that means u dont agree with me, and for that i thank god as it means theres at least some sense to what im saying

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:30 am

kirankara wrote:This problem with his positioning was highlighted on skysports during the game also, so not just my oppinion

Whether or not they highlighted the "problem" with his positioning is by the by, the fact remains that the "whether to push out or tuck in" debate is played out in a full-backs mind twenty times a game. I never saw any such debate on SKY but if they came to the same conclusion as your good self, they are wrong in my opinion.

Aurelio was trying to defend as narrow as possible with good reason as our midfield was leaking alarmingly. This was caused both by Garcia's lack of defensive consideration and by Gerrards alarming propensity to vacate central-midfield in a similar way in which he does the right wing (where it is mostly Ok so to do).

To criticize any full-back who is constantly having to choose a "lesser of two evils" option, when the attacking team plays it to the player he hasn't covered is patently ridiculous. If he has a midfiled player bearing down on him carrying the ball, a striker running accross the line and an unmarked right sided midfield player looking to recieve a pass out on the touchline what exactly do you suggest he does? While you ponder your reply I'll tell you what every sensible coach and full-back would advocate, they would tell Aurelio to defend narrow and make the midfield player give it out wide. Then you can close the crosser down safe in the knowledge that the opposition are not playing it in behind you in and around the penalty area. It's not perfect because the right-sided midfielder has time to measure a cross before you get there, but at least the defenders in behind have a chance to get set and contest the header.

This is what Aurelio did and does. That is because he isa good player.

by **Judge** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:36 am

bigmick wrote:
kirankara wrote:This problem with his positioning was highlighted on skysports during the game also, so not just my oppinion

Whether or not they highlighted the "problem" with his positioning is by the by, the fact remains that the "whether to push out or tuck in" debate is played out in a full-backs mind twenty times a game. I never saw any such debate on SKY but if they came to the same conclusion as your good self, they are wrong in my opinion.

Aurelio was trying to defend as narrow as possible with good reason as our midfield was leaking alarmingly. This was caused both by Garcia's lack of defensive consideration and by Gerrards alarming propensity to vacate central-midfield in a similar way in which he does the right wing (where it is mostly Ok so to do).

To criticize any full-back who is constantly having to choose a "lesser of two evils" option, when the attacking team plays it to the player he hasn't covered is patently ridiculous. If he has a midfiled player bearing down on him carrying the ball, a striker running accross the line and an unmarked right sided midfield player looking to recieve a pass out on the touchline what exactly do you suggest he does? While you ponder your reply I'll tell you what every sensible coach and full-back would advocate, they would tell Aurelio to defend narrow and make the midfield player give it out wide. Then you can close the crosser down safe in the knowledge that the opposition are not playing it in behind you in and around the penalty area. It's not perfect because the right-sided midfielder has time to measure a cross before you get there, but at least the defenders in behind have a chance to get set and contest the header.

This is what Aurelio did and does. That is because he isa good player.

know it all

by **kirankara** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:42 am

agree with you 99% there big mick and hope you can appreciate i wasnt basing it purely on that match, i also too am big enough to say i was very overdramatic it my first post, and should have thought it through better, i can appreciate him as a player and think garcia was also at fault, thus i also said that he needed a more defensive minded winger in front of him, I also think hes a good player, but based upon a few matches where at times hes got caught out i feel hes still adapting to the Epl and rafas system here. I think in time he may even be more than a very good player and be a great one, I am putting my hand up and saying i made a bit of a :censored:

of myself with this post, and looking back with hindsight and having got some of my frustration at our second half performance can see your speaking with a clear mind and hope we can have many more diiscussions infuture, as friends

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:49 am

Hey mate it's always as friends as far as I'm concerned. It's all bar-room banter and opinions anyhow, and none of ours make a blind bit of difference to anything. Life's too short to make internet enemies over a difference of opinion about a footballer. Sorry if i came over all know-it-all and heavy, fortunately we've got feckers like Judgy who bring us down to size when we get too big for our boots on here

by **Judge** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:53 am

too right mick

have a nice day

by **kirankara** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:53 am

yeah m8, wasnt suggesting u were being anything other than friendly, neither was i, just wanted to make that clear that held no animosity, i have even appologised to pablo lol,.see u round mick

by **ivor_the_injun** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:53 am

I'm starting to think that our answer down the left is Riise at LB and Aurelio ahead of him on the wing.

Last night I'm sure Aurelio got a ton of flak that should really have been better directed at Garcia, who continually exposed him horribly. I don't get why Garcia's being used out there - in European ties I'd be happier just leaving him in a free role somewhere between midfield and attack.

by **kirankara** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:55 am

yeah ivor dont think left wing is louis's strongest position, he operates better without any defensive responsabilities at all, so he can do what he does best... cause havoc lol, and not for our defense lol

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:27 pm

He is a fantastic crosser of the ball, but his defensive abilities are some what dodgey.

Not just based on last nights performance either every game he's played in.

Him and Garcia where to lightweight on the left not that the Turks where yard dogs but we gave them so much space and got punished because of it.

Riise and Warnock should stick to LB, and Aurelio can be used on the wing.
One of these days one of them free kicks are going to go in aswell

by **zarababe** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:52 pm

bigmick wrote:
kirankara wrote:This problem with his positioning was highlighted on skysports during the game also, so not just my oppinion

Whether or not they highlighted the "problem" with his positioning is by the by, the fact remains that the "whether to push out or tuck in" debate is played out in a full-backs mind twenty times a game. I never saw any such debate on SKY but if they came to the same conclusion as your good self, they are wrong in my opinion.

Aurelio was trying to defend as narrow as possible with good reason as our midfield was leaking alarmingly. This was caused both by Garcia's lack of defensive consideration and by Gerrards alarming propensity to vacate central-midfield in a similar way in which he does the right wing (where it is mostly Ok so to do).

To criticize any full-back who is constantly having to choose a "lesser of two evils" option, when the attacking team plays it to the player he hasn't covered is patently ridiculous. If he has a midfiled player bearing down on him carrying the ball, a striker running accross the line and an unmarked right sided midfield player looking to recieve a pass out on the touchline what exactly do you suggest he does? While you ponder your reply I'll tell you what every sensible coach and full-back would advocate, they would tell Aurelio to defend narrow and make the midfield player give it out wide. Then you can close the crosser down safe in the knowledge that the opposition are not playing it in behind you in and around the penalty area. It's not perfect because the right-sided midfielder has time to measure a cross before you get there, but at least the defenders in behind have a chance to get set and contest the header.

This is what Aurelio did and does. That is because he isa good player.

Absolutely BM, I'm not great at the tactical stuff, but yes the lack of a midfield holding postion is what caused us the massive problems we had last night.

If I'm correct.. (not being tactical and all that :sniffle

) this is why Gerrad plays on the right allowing Momo/Zenden in the centre to full fill that holding midfield role, which affords the protection to the back four and time to reorganise.

Personally I rate Aurellio too, he is setling in quickly and the rotation,means people are eager to do well, and settle in quicker otherwise they know they will be out

I've just seen his cross for the first goal again, that must be the best cross so far this season :nod

by **stanleytmanley** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:36 pm

Whilst on the subject of Aurelio what does anyone now about his ability to score from free kicks around the box? We know of his left footed passing (see the ball cross field ball to Pennant last night) but does he have a history of scoring free kicks? Stevie and Xabi are happy to step aside more often than not so he must be banging them in in training.
Not questioning his ability, but has he bagged many at previous clubs?

by **crouchaldinho** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:00 pm

i have to say, this forum string caught my attention because i, for one, was shouting at the TV last night wondering where the hell Aurelio was when Gala'a full back found acres of space down our left side (incidentally, the attack i'm talking about didn't actually lead to one of their goals, we were let off on that particular occasion). On reflection though (and after reading through the numerous posts on this page), i particularly agree with part of BIGMICK's post about Stevie going walkabout. Dont get me wrong, there is no way on this earth id ever lay into Stevie G, but if Sissoko was playing last night (from the start), the defence would have had a lot more protection with both he & Alonso providing enough cover for when Aurelio did go forward on the attack.

I do believe, though, that when compared to JAR Aurelio doesnt seem to be able to match him defensively, although he is, without doubt, a better crosser of the ball.

I'd like to add finally though that at this early stage in his first season at the club, it is a bit early to judge.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:46 pm

Big Mick is spot on with this one because the fact is, all of our LBs--Aurelio, Riise and Warnock--would have been exposed last night. Crisp ball movement through the centre--helped by Stevie being caught upfield a lot--and an absolute refusal on Garcia's part to track back to deep positions to pressure their RM left Aurelio with the work of two men to do.

As Mick suggested, he consistently made the correct decision (lesser of two evils) by staying close to the area and preventing through-balls in behind. Unfortunately, all of their right-sided players had the ability to play exceptional balls into the box and we looked very out of sorts in defending them (hence the other shouts for Hyypia instead of Agger to cope with their aerial bombardment).

So, for those of you concerned with Aurelio at LB I would like to suggest that there's more to this problem than meets the eye. In fact, here's an interesting stat for you: of Aurelio's 4 starts this season at LB, who do you suppose has played ahead of him at LM in each? Answer: Luis Garcia. This might go some way to suggesting that Aurelio's "struggles" at LB have a lot more to do with who he's playing with than with his own shortcomings as a defender.

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