Liverpool FC Forum

by **andy_g** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:07 pm

its bizarre isn't it? look at the midfield they could've put out a few seasons ago, before 4-5-1 strode back into fashion;

giggs - keane - scholes - veron - beckham

i don't care what anyone says about our midfield now or even chelsea's (they they too tried with veron), THAT is a midfield to die for. now giggs, keane and scholes are very near the end of their effective careers, beckham's gone and veron never really got to grips with the english game. that they now have to put out a midfield with smith and fletcher in it, and that they even tried with djemba-djemba and kleberson speaks absolute volumes for 1. ferguson's decision making and 2. united pulling and spending power these days.

but to say they're in decline may be a little premature. they still have on 4 of the biggest talents on the WORLD stage in rooney, ronaldo, van nistelrooy and ferdinand aswell as another hugely talented player in gabriel heinze and are sorted for defence and attack. if ferguson (or his successor) can just get the midfield fixed again they'll be a potent force for a while to come.

unless some clueless yanks come along and feck it all up that is...

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:50 pm

andy_g wrote: 4 of the biggest talents on the WORLD stage in rooney, ronaldo, van nistelrooy and ferdinand aswell as another hugely

Ferdinand is one of the most grossly over rated players in football.

Flash as hell but not a particularly good defender and has no guts.

by **drummerphil** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:11 pm

I agree about Ferdinand being over rated,infact i would say his brother Anton (i think thats right) looks to be a better player.These kind of threads are man utd in decline,are Arsenal in decline etc make me laugh.The problem at the moment is Chelsea and the money involved,if they were allowed i,m sure Chelsea could put out two teams that would finish in the top 4.We have all said it about capping and some kind of uefa intervention but until that happens the curent trend of Chelsea wrapping the title up etc by christmas will continue.Man utd are not in decline and neither are Arsenal its just financially Chelsea are in a league of their own.

by **laza** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:50 am

What a pity that Chelski were suddenly propelled into a different league with all that money. Would have made for a very interesting title chase this year i reckon if Roman had never come to London town. Arsenal trying to cope without Viera and MANCs in urgent need of a rebuild

by **JBG** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:01 pm

Of course Man UTD are in decline. They are in relative decline in relation to their competitors.

For example, Britain was the most powerful industrial nation in the world in 1850. It produced more industrial goods than any other nation.

In 1914 Britain produced far more industrial goods than it did in 1850, but other countries, such as Germany and the USA, produced even more than Britain. Britain may have looked even more powerful when you compared it to the Britain of 1850, but it suffered a relative decline in relation to its competitors.

The same goes for football. The current Man UTD team is probably better than the 1994 team or the 1996 team, which won doubles (Man UTD fans might disagree but the current team would probably beat the Cantona/Hughes/Bruce generation in a one off match). However, the current Man UTd team is well off the pace in the Premiership, so it is in relative decline.

by **stmichael** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:04 pm

i think of lot of manure's problems came when they tried to "follow suit" and change from 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3. their main problems lie in midfield. scholes and keane just aren't the same players anymore, darren fletcher just isn't up to it and alan smith will never be a midfielder.

by **hawkmoon269** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:18 pm

I think the yard stick to whether "Manchester United really in decline" is also the fact that they have dropped below our "radar", and we constantly talk about Chelski! Even Arsenal doesn't even warrent a mention anymore.

by **84-1106852058** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:37 pm

The Red Baron wrote:Straight to the point with this one JBG,I think United are on the slide.As you said Giggs Scholes,Keane,Van de sar are all in the twilight of their careers,and United dont seem to have the srength in depth that they used to have.Each time Fergie tried to rest players last season he had to bring them off the bench to rescue games.When he did throw somebody in out of the reserves there was nobody that stood out.
United were very fortunate to have the likes of Giggs,Scholes Beckham and even the Nevilles all playing together in a successful youth team.Young talent emerging at the same time was a major factor in Fergies success, lets not forget he was one game from the sack.Now he is one season from it.
The new owner of the club expects results,to achieve this he has to invest in the team,something we are led to believe he is reluctant to do.If he doesnt the glory days at Old Trafford are well and truely over.
If United dont have a successful season this time ,I can see Fergie being replaced and United appointing a new manager every couple of seasons as this Yank will expect to win things cream off the money without having to spend any.
Fergie should have retired at the end of last season.He has had his day,and his judgement is clearly clouded with his obsession for European glory a task which Ibelieve is way beyond them.

Looks like it could be a giant slice of humble pie for me.It looks like United will be the ones to chase Chelsea home.Arsenal look to have blown it,and we are still on the starting line.

by **drummerphil** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:15 pm

middlesbrough 4 united 0...........mmmmmmmm............now what was i saying about united not being in decline :laugh:

by **JBG** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:03 pm

The Red Baron wrote:
The Red Baron wrote:Straight to the point with this one JBG,I think United are on the slide.As you said Giggs Scholes,Keane,Van de sar are all in the twilight of their careers,and United dont seem to have the srength in depth that they used to have.Each time Fergie tried to rest players last season he had to bring them off the bench to rescue games.When he did throw somebody in out of the reserves there was nobody that stood out.
United were very fortunate to have the likes of Giggs,Scholes Beckham and even the Nevilles all playing together in a successful youth team.Young talent emerging at the same time was a major factor in Fergies success, lets not forget he was one game from the sack.Now he is one season from it.
The new owner of the club expects results,to achieve this he has to invest in the team,something we are led to believe he is reluctant to do.If he doesnt the glory days at Old Trafford are well and truely over.
If United dont have a successful season this time ,I can see Fergie being replaced and United appointing a new manager every couple of seasons as this Yank will expect to win things cream off the money without having to spend any.
Fergie should have retired at the end of last season.He has had his day,and his judgement is clearly clouded with his obsession for European glory a task which Ibelieve is way beyond them.

Looks like it could be a giant slice of humble pie for me.It looks like United will be the ones to chase Chelsea home.Arsenal look to have blown it,and we are still on the starting line.

I'd put the pie pack in the fridge if I were you.

UTD are going into a crucial week. They haven't convinced at all in the Champions League and are at Lille away. That will be a tough one (especially with the likes of Villareal and Benfica in your group) although I expect UTD to win.

They have Chelsea after that. If anybody can beat Chelsea in a one off game it will be UTD, but Mourinho takes huge satisfaction in beating UTD, and he'll be keen on ending UTD's challenge once and for all next weekend.

If Man UTD lose that match it will be the first time for over a decade that UTD have been out of the title race by the start of November for well over 10 years: there is no way Chelsea will suffer a Newcastle style collapse. If that isn't decline, then what is?

by **drummerphil** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:02 pm

I,m starting to agree JBG every team has its day and the youth team of 1990 (scholes,neville,giggs etc etc) have now turned thirty.I personally feel that united havent been the same since Beckham left and van horseface used to feed on his pin point crosses game in game out.Roy Keane has already stated he will finish next year and again already this season they are missing his leadership in the games he cant play in now.Some papers are saying United will come after Gerrard because he signed his contract on the back of the cl victory and with Owen going to Newcastle and our current league form,they reckon Gerrard signed on the promise we would make a premiership challange.Personally Gerrard would never go there and i think they are talking :censored:

.
Then we have the Glazier factor and lack of transfer funds,although no on can compete with Chelski on that front united have been spending 3-4m on average on players this last two years (rooney apart).Our era of dominance ended in 91 and maybe uniteds time is up now.

by **JBG** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:54 pm

There's nothing in the Gerrard story.

by **stmichael** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:54 pm

They are still a very good side. They are not suddenly mid-table material but they are stagnating in terms of their standards, not progressing.

by **Mikz** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:40 pm

I agree with whoever said about Beckham,theyve never been the same his crossing not to mention his free-kicks -What was Ferguson thinking? Thats on a par with Souness offloading Beardsley. So many of their top players are on the wane and most of all -other teams believe they can beat them now and dont hide in a shell - :censored:

that always :censored:

me off.
And what about Arsenal-take just "one" player off the line up and they look very ordinary and we thought we were a one man team.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:40 am

drummerphil wrote:I,m starting to agree JBG every team has its day and the youth team of 1990 (scholes,neville,giggs etc etc) have now turned thirty.I personally feel that united havent been the same since Beckham left and van horseface used to feed on his pin point crosses game in game out.Roy Keane has already stated he will finish next year and again already this season they are missing his leadership in the games he cant play in now.Some papers are saying United will come after Gerrard because he signed his contract on the back of the cl victory and with Owen going to Newcastle and our current league form,they reckon Gerrard signed on the promise we would make a premiership challange.Personally Gerrard would never go there and i think they are talking .
Then we have the Glazier factor and lack of transfer funds,although no on can compete with Chelski on that front united have been spending 3-4m on average on players this last two years (rooney apart).Our era of dominance ended in 91 and maybe uniteds time is up now.

I wouldn't worry about Gerrard matey.
A.) He would nevr go to Man U.
B.) There is no release clause in his contract. (Straight from the horses mouth.)

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