Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:08 am

There is some discussion on other threads just now about the fact that only one English player (Carra) started for us last night. Although it would be good to see a few more home grown players in the side, I think we have to face some facts.

At the moment Chelsea are the dominant side in the prem unquestionably. Our ultimate aim has to be to surpass them. In my opinion we will not do that with several English players in the side. Build the team around about 4 English lads by all means, but focussing on filling the rest of the team up with English is not the wayto go.

Think about this. If you picked the best English 11 (excluding those that already play for Chelsea) who would have the better side between them and Chelsea? In my opinion Chelsea, no question. Therefore to get better than them we can't focus too much on the fact that our team is going to have to contain a lot of foreigners. It's just the way it has to be.

It's not going to change in the near future either. Our young reserve side is now packed with just as many foreigners as English, and players bought for the first team will also mainly be foreign due to the transfer market. I think people just need to get used to this.

I think the comparison between an English 11 and Chelsea is interesting though, it just shows how the game has gone in recent years. 10 years ago the English national side would have easily beaten the best club side in the premiership, but the top clubs have now raised the bar in England I feel.

by **laza** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:27 am

If we have as many English players in the regular first XI as we did during the 1986 season and we end up with the same result as in 1986 i wont be complaining

by **RUSHIE#9** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:32 am

Totally agree with you JC. It gets right on my hinge when you hear people saying that we need to get more local lads in the side. My response to these people is always, would you rather see a side full of poor quality local lads being spanked every week or a side with good quality foreingers in challenging for trophies.
I dare say back in the 60's and 70's there were probablly people saying whats with all these scottish and irish players in the team (I wouldn't know before anybody kicks off 'cos I'm a spritley 25 year old!!).
The results of the games and Liverpool winning silverware are more important to me than the players nationality and in my eyes if a player is giving 100% to the cause every week then they are an honourary scouser anyway.

by **AwiLas** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:40 am

If all the 10 players on the pitch are Steven Gerrard(English and from Liverpool Reserves), Liverpool would have been Real Madrid + Chelsea... Cheers..

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:11 pm

The amount of young players that slip through the net is a joke.

Theres thousands of lads out there who are far better players than some of there premiership counterparts but never make it for one reason or another.

There are lads out there now such as Ashton who have the ability to walk into 90% of clubs in the country but they don't have the balls to take a "gamble" on him. It was the same with Defoe when he was in division 1. A blind man could see he was a superb player but only Tottenham had the bottle to sign the lad.

English players are generally better than Foreigners anyway in my mind, look at Carragher and Terry, for me, two decent players. Neither have fantastic talent, yet if you look at their heart and commitment they epitomize everything the game is about in this country.

by **RedRoots** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:43 pm

stu_the_red wrote:English players are generally better than Foreigners anyway in my mind, look at Carragher and Terry, for me, two decent players. Neither have fantastic talent, yet if you look at their heart and commitment they epitomize everything the game is about in this country.

That's a p1ss poor arguement and generalisation. Foreign players don't have heart? Tell Sammi Jerzy and Didi that, those lads love Liverpool which was proven in May. Carragher and Terry are a rarity, are you trying to say the likes of Ferdinand, Bowyer, Woodgate and Dyer have heart, because I don't think so.

Another example for you, Wayne Rooney, does he have heart? No, but he's a fantastic player so it doesn't matter. Heart isn't everything, when there is talent there, also it doesn't matter where your from to have heart, so it's ridiculous to say that in "general" only English players have heart.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:30 pm

I don't think it's about foreigners or local lads. It's about buying people who are proven Premiership performers. I really don't care where people are from but I am absolutely convinced that there are bargains to be had in Britain, whether buying British or overseas players who are based over here. I have gone on about this in other threads so I won't bore everybody with it here but often there are good players right under our noses if we only care to look.

by **lakes10** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:34 pm

but dont forget this

Uefa sets foreign player limits

Uefa has announced clubs competing in the Champions League and Uefa Cup will have to include four homegrown players in their 25-man squad from 2006.
Europe's governing body also wants to implement the plan in domestic leagues but that will have to be agreed by each national association.

Uefa then wants six homegrown players by 2007 and eight in 2008.

Of the eight, at least four must be trained by the club's own academy and the rest in the home country.

Uefa defines a club-trained player as one who has been registered for a minimum of three seasons with the club between the age of 15 and 21
Of the 32 sides in last season's Champions League, five clubs would have not had enough homegrown players to meet the requirement of eight under the eventual new ruling.

They are: Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers and Ajax.

Uefa's 52 member associations will vote on whether the same rule should apply to domestic competitions at a Congress in Tallinn, Estonia in April.

There has already been strong opposition voiced by the Premier League and the Italian federation.

But Uefa chief executive Lars-Christer Olsson said: "We think this is a reasonable compromise based on all the consultations we have had.

"Although we have had negative responses from some leagues and some bigger clubs in those leagues, all the others involved have been very supportive of this idea.

"We also think the proposal is legal, because it is a sporting rule, not as a restriction, to develop and promote young players."

But a Premier League spokesman said: "Uefa clearly believes they have a robust-enough legal position to introduce the changes within their competitions.

"However, it is extremely unlikely that such a rule change will be introduced in our domestic competition

by **antz** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:35 pm

stu_the_red wrote:English players are generally better than Foreigners anyway in my mind

I wonder why

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:44 pm

I'm not sure what to think about this topic. Although logic tells me that "foreigner" defenders are right, experience has tought me that putting 11 mercenaries together in a pitch doesn't work. As examples of this I put Deportivo de la Coruña or nowadays Real Madrid. Chel$ski cannot compete with this names, Ronaldo, Raul, Robinho, Beckham (Owen in the bloody bench yesteryear!), Zidane, ROberto Carlos. And yet today I'd put my money on Chel$ki. My point is that the "Terry"s can be as important as the Drogbas.

I think it's necessary to have a backbone of club players , 3 or 4, and then the reinforcements. By club players I mean this players that have been on the team many years and won't complain about being sit on the bench at some point. Perhaps it's easier the club players being from the country itself, but we always can find examples of foreigners that fit perfectly in the club and can be considered "club players".

Correct me if I'm wrong with Chel$ki. I don't know them as I know Liverpool. But they've been trying to buy lots of players since many years ago right? I remember when Zola played for them. That Chelsea had the money and had the players but the whole idea didn't work as it's working now for my dismay. Perhaps now they have the mentioned "balance" between stars and "club players". I don't know (I don't even know if I explained my point

)

Sabre

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:50 pm

RUSHIE#9 wrote:Totally agree with you JC. It gets right on my hinge when you hear people saying that we need to get more local lads in the side. My response to these people is always, would you rather see a side full of poor quality local lads being spanked every week or a side with good quality foreingers in challenging for trophies.
I dare say back in the 60's and 70's there were probablly people saying whats with all these scottish and irish players in the team (I wouldn't know before anybody kicks off 'cos I'm a spritley 25 year old!!).
The results of the games and Liverpool winning silverware are more important to me than the players nationality and in my eyes if a player is giving 100% to the cause every week then they are an honourary scouser anyway.

Rushie, who's to say that the local lads are poor quality? Look at the likes of Warnock, Fowler, Mcmanaman,Owen,Thompson,Gerrard, Carragher, McDermott etc. are/were they poor compared to foreign imports? I certainly think not.

At the moment, I will agree that we have, with a few minor exceptions, foreign players in the team who are better equipped than the youngsters to serve the squad.

However, I feel we must always endevour to look at our youngsters first before needlessly splashing out on some foreign youngster who may have the same ability.

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:59 pm

RedRoots wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:English players are generally better than Foreigners anyway in my mind, look at Carragher and Terry, for me, two decent players. Neither have fantastic talent, yet if you look at their heart and commitment they epitomize everything the game is about in this country.

That's a p1ss poor arguement and generalisation. Foreign players don't have heart? Tell Sammi Jerzy and Didi that, those lads love Liverpool which was proven in May. Carragher and Terry are a rarity, are you trying to say the likes of Ferdinand, Bowyer, Woodgate and Dyer have heart, because I don't think so.

Another example for you, Wayne Rooney, does he have heart? No, but he's a fantastic player so it doesn't matter. Heart isn't everything, when there is talent there, also it doesn't matter where your from to have heart, so it's ridiculous to say that in "general" only English players have heart.

Rooney doesn't have heart?

:laugh:

He puts everything into every game.

What a tool. :laugh:

by **RedRoots** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:44 pm

Great arguement there Stu. I don't beleive Rooney has heart certainly not in the same vein as Carragher or Terry, I beleive to have heart you must show loyalty and we all know how loyal Rooney is.

Neither have fantastic talent, yet if you look at their heart and commitment they epitomize everything the game is about in this country.

I think the days of the game being about heart are dead and buried, it's about having money and talent, heart plays a minimal role in todays game, just ask Everton.

by **Houllier=LFC** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:31 pm

Regardless of whether they are foreigners or locals, i would be delighted with 3 points from every game, but honestly the pleasure will be much higher if a local lad score for us.

by **76-1115222408** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:26 pm

stu_the_red wrote:The amount of young players that slip through the net is a joke.

Theres thousands of lads out there who are far better players than some of there premiership counterparts but never make it for one reason or another.

I have to say Stu, that point above is spot on. Anyone that has played football to a reasonable level will know this.

There ARE 'thousands' of quality players just playing Saturday (better quality) and Sunday football, that could make the grade, but for one reason or another, have not been seen/scouted etc;
It often boils down to who you know in football too!

Example a good friend of mine, who I used to play regularly with is DJ Campbell(Of Yeading fame, you may remeber he was the striker when they played Newcastle in the FA Cup last year). Now this boy can play, but was just playing Semi-pro on a Saturday. It was only after being highlighted through television, that he now has a playing contract with Brentford!
He was at Villa (I think, was def in Birmingham as he had to travel) and had problems settling and with travelling etc; but they gave him no support (he told me this) and let him go, and he went and played semi-pro for Yeading.

I have also played with Jody Morris (for two years) and he was no way the best player in our team, but he made it, as his dad had links at Chelsea. Also Jody used to be a player in the Joe Cole mode, but the coaches at Chelsea changed him from a 'hole' player, to a central midfielder.

This is a major problem in this country, the coaches!
Example (i have said this before) my brothers district side (West London) always ended up playing against Joe Cole's district (Islington and Highbury), so I saw Joe play from the ages of 12-16 quite a few times, and when he emerged at West Ham (much like Jody) he wasnt the same player.
The 'natural' abilities had been somewhat dumbed down and a more 'english' if you like, approach was seen from him, whereas before he looked as if he was from Brazil.

So its no surprise when a playing under 'foriegn' managers that he has now gone on to really show what he is all about.

Foriegners are part and parcel of the game, and an easy scapegoat when things are not going right. But, just as immmigration is readily prevalent, why should the world of football be any difference.
However, in utopia, the spine would be, not just 'english' but 'local' lads,as long as they are good enough and not just for the sake of it, with other areas filled by quality, be it Foriegn or homegrown.

Foriegners are not a problem, I bet some people who talk of foriegners dont realise people like, Mcallister, Duff, Dalglish et al are ALSO technically foriegners, its just the fact that with Globalisation its now that these players can come from much further afield, eg; we have now signed a youngster from Chile (via Spain) in Gonzales.

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