Liverpool FC Forum

[killerp]

Once again it's summer transfer time & all us lfc fans are looking to the transfer market for answers to our squad issues.

We have new owners, director of football & a legend of a Manager in charge & it seems the new Liverpool squad will be built around young English talent.

Is this the answer to reclaim a top spot in the league & challenge for honours both at home & in Europe? or is it just the smart thing to do to ensure financial stability in the future given the resale value of these English players.

The way I see it here are the pros & cons of sticking strickly to a young English squad:

Pros:

* Resale value
* The English game suits English players!
* You won't have work permit issues
* You all speak the same language
* Might be more loyal than foreign players (Highly debatable though!)
* Might help the national team by developing local talent.

Cons:

* Young English players are exceptionally expensive, high wage demands, resigning fees etc...
* For the money you must pay there is no guarantee they will be successful
* National duty will cause lots of problems with injuries & player fatigue, especially after the media is finished assaulting you after the last performance.
* Takes time to develop young players & we have been waiting for almost an eternity to win the league!

Please Discuss/Comment

[Kenny Kan]

Personally I think we need to balance our policy of foreigners and home grown talent; and by that I mean don't go out and get a ratio 1:1 re English and foreign players. But perhaps get a core of English/British players and sprinkle the squad with some foreign players. There is NO doubt in my mind that foreign players bring a lot of diversity to the English game with their technical ability etc - just look at Suarez for e.g.

In my mind players like Lucas, Meireles and Skertel in particular could all be players that are capable of being replaced by British talent. I'm not saying the should necessarily be replaced but I do not think they are able to do 'stuff' that British players aren't. But if said players warrant a starting birth in the side on their form then there really is no need to chop and change that.

But by bringing in and developing homegrown players to slot in or fight for a place in the side; well as long as they're good enough I see no problem with that.

We (Rafa) had a great spine of a team including Reina, Carra, (Hyypia) Agger/Skertel, Gerrard, Alonso, Masch and later Torres. There's only 2 English Scouse players in that spine - yet it didn't prevent it from being a v.good/great one.

So if you get the right blend/balance I don't think it matters (although I do think a team full of foreigners is potentially better than a side filled with British players - personally). I think many foreigners compliment the British style making it a rather nice recipe. And seeing as we do have quite a large number of foreigners in the squad at present, I don't think buying British is bad. Although I would perhaps like one marquee foreign signing just to add a bit more spice up front.

[ethanr]

Ya I think you bring up valid points, but I'm not sure the team will be based around the English lads alone.  I think that there are some issues other clubs have faced we are trying to avoid.

Arsenal- a lot of young talent, but no experience and lack of maturity has caused issues
manure- Some talent and a stubborn manager who gets whatever he wants is really the only reason they've stayed alive.
Chelski- Lots of talent, but they are getting too old
Real Madrid- Loads of the best talent, but they are players who play for themselves (albeit Alonso).  They are a bunch of superstars trying to prove they are the best in the world, and that causes problems.  They looked for the best individual talent, not how the club can work as a whole.

Barcelona- They have loads of talent and players who work well together.  This is why they are possibly the best club in the history of football.  They have some of the best players in the world like Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta, but those players don't play for themselves.  They are unselfish, they play for the club because they love the club and the sport and the respect their team members.  I don't actually rate some of the players on their team that well.  I don't think Pedro is as good as he seems.  Busqets is good, but not the best they could have.  Same with Abidal, Puyol is getting old as well. Alves isn't the player he used to be either.  But they play as one.  Their passing is beautiful, absolutely incredible because they play for each other, for the club and for their fans.  They have found players that work in their system because of the attitude they have towards the concept.

Madrid is really the main point in what I'm trying to say here.  Madrid have a squad full of the worlds most talented, there's no doubt there.  But that can be a problem because their CM's became the worlds best because they score a lot of goals, because they played for a club that revolved around them.  Madrid's strikers played for a club that revolved around passing them the ball, and now they don't have that service because everybody wants the ball and everybody wants to score.  It's not a club where people say I want to win everything with this club no matter what it takes.  This is a club where they say, i want to prove that I'm the best at what I do, and I'll do anything to show it.

Now King Kenny and Comoli are putting a squad together.  The squad with the CORRECT players, not the most talented.  We look at what our strengths are right now.  To be honest we have 2 strengths, our strikers and our keeper.  There really isn't much you can do about the keeper, so we need to look at the defense and midfield.  Well we need the midfield to compliment our strength- our strikers.  What are our strikers strengths? Well playing from our CM positions, we are likely to look for Suarez, so we need 2 cm's (or more for depth) that can really pick him out on the ground.  See the great runs he makes, and put him in that position.  We already have one of the best in the business at that position in Gerrard, and I honestly believe Adam could fill that second role.  Meireles and Lucas have the potential, and I want to see Shelvey and Spearing grow more before I make any predictions on them.  Now Carroll's strengths are obvoius, give him the ball in the box, high in the air, and he will either put in a shot or creating an opportunity for somebody else to tap it in.  We don't need to go and buy the best winger in the world.  We don't really need Arjen Robben or Nani or Ronaldo (don't know if he's still considered a winger?), we get Henderson because he created a lot of opportunities last year, he's got an amazing cross and amazing placement when playing people into the box.  We are supposedly going after Downing as well, who is obviously even better than Henderson at getting the ball in the box for somebody to score.  He's not the best winger in the game, but for our current squad, he's the correct winger.  He's one that will tremendously help our squad.

When it comes to defense, we are looking at players who are great at moving the ball for a LB (Enrique, Coentrao(not really) the french dude and Baines(?)  These players can help get the ball to our wingers, who can help get the ball to our strikers.  At CB we have the likes of Cahill and Dann linked, two very very strong CB's who can hold up play and really make a difference.  Not to mention they are great in the air both defensively and offensively, so with our CB and Carroll in the box, we will be a threat in every set piece situation.

We don't need the best players in the world... We need the players that will fit into the squad.  Not only is Dann a solid CB, but he's a lifelong Liverpool supporter.  It would be a dream for him to play for our club, he will want to be here and he will play his heart out every second for this club.  He could be our next Carra.

People rag on on us being linked with Joey Barton, but you have to look at the big picture.  He created a lot of opportunites for Newcastle, mostly when Carroll played alongside him.  Carroll got Nolan's assist against us from a perfectly-placed set piece from Barton.  Is Barton one of the best in the league?  Hell no (Tho don't tell him that because he'd care to disagree ) but he work in that system.  I'm not saying I want Barton here, because like many of you have said he really doesn't deserve to put on the red shirt, but I use him as an example as a player who would fit into our system.

Comoli and KK have clearly sorted this out, which is why I back every transfer of theirs, from us signing Sergio Aguero to us signing Joey Barton, they will find the players they believe will fit into the system that King Kenny plans on using.


Sorry I know I got a bit off topic there, but my point is I don't believe we are basing our squad only around English talent.  We are making sure we have the English players to fill the quota, but we are buying players that fit the system we wish to play, and that's that.

[The Good Yank]

Very Good post Ethan.  Actually all three posts are top notch.

[Reg]

Good posts all round.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Cons:

* Young English players are exceptionally expensive, high wage demands, resigning fees etc...
* For the money you must pay there is no guarantee they will be successful
* National duty will cause lots of problems with injuries & player fatigue, especially after the media is finished assaulting you after the last performance.
* Takes time to develop young players & we have been waiting for almost an eternity to win the league!

Please Discuss/Comment

Good post.

The cons you posted for local players apply across the whole of Europe to be honest.

Young English players are exceptionally expensive, high wage demands, resigning fees etc...

Young talented players are expensive full stop regardless of their nationality. The difference in Europe is those youngsters who have high transfer valuations are usually heavily technical players, whereas here the players tend not to be massively technical. This maybe explains why there is a common view that English talent is over-valued - because of the lack of technical skill.

For the money you must pay there is no guarantee they will be successful

This is a risk at any transfer level, local or foreign. Aquilani was 24 when signed, youngish. Yet his move was hardly a success and it looks like we'll make a loss here if he is sold. You could argue that the risk is less for domestic talent as they tend to already of been hardened to the league.

National duty will cause lots of problems with injuries & player fatigue, especially after the media is finished assaulting you after the last performance.

Same applies to any players who plays regularly at a international level. In fact many non-European players have a heavier in-season workload as their EURO equivalent competitions are held mid-season.

Again I would argue the risk is less as there is no international absence for local players mid-season.

BUT...

With this all said I am not advocating a whole team of domestic players, I think it is massively important to have individual talented foreigners scattered throughout the team. It's just a matter of balance.

[Raoul]

ethanr, best post I've ever read of all of yours, and one of the better posts I've read in a while on the forum.

I'm not British, nor am I a Scouser, so I'm not too fussed where players come from as long as they fit into the team well (so a couple more Spaniards/Spanish speakers wouldn't hurt - as long as they adapt to life and language in Liverpool), and have the ability and passion the red shirt demands. There are obvious reasons for getting locals - language, cultural adjustment (which can really be a big issue), understanding of the Premiership, etc. But if you can get synergy with a cosmopolitan team, that has got to be better than synergy with a monocultural one, in terms of styles of play and the fact that there are some things some countries tend to do better than dear old England (like pass and move).

[dawson99]

I always thought the english players wage demands would be a lot lower than the european counterparts, but other than that the post is virtually faultless, so bravo dude, nice work

[crazyhorse]

One of the best threads and posts I have seen on here for some time!

What I hope to see myself is the current policy continuing, with the best young English talent being brought in but mingled with the very best that the rest of the world has to offer. For me as a simple football fan I would take far more pride in a side that has a thick seam of English talent (including the best Liverpool lads such as Flanno) with the odd jewel among... I am not particualry interested in any benefits for the national team but it is an interesting point to make. I would say however that this could have a detrimental knock on effect for the club in the long run.

The only team over the last twenty years that has had sustained success is I am afraid Manure. They adopted very early on the same policy. They had the golden afge of youngsters going through such as Scholes/Giggs/Beckham ect and fergie has always been willing to pay top dallar for the very best English talent; twice breaking transfer records to sign Rooney and Ferdinand. At a time that most clubs were bringing in mediocre foreign talent this was very long sighted. The result is twenty years of success built on a solid foundation which has allowed Manures squad to be rebuilt and reinvented year on year.

When we look at where we are now, we have arguably the best English player in his position in Steven Gerrard, englands right back in Johnson, and now Carrol and Henderson who are young players and already full internationals.

What it would seem to me is that we are aiming for success in a sustainable and sensible way - which has always been the Liverpool way in history. We are not looking to buy titles next year, but guarentee we will be challenging for them every year for ten years. This is a major change from past policy and it warms my heart, not only are we strengthening the squad but adding players who will fight and work to improve and take us forward as a unit.

Like I said, a seam of English talent is a proven way of winning things but as we have seen this alone will not be enough. We now have Suarez who has already shown his class for us and he also has a very English approach. Other foreign players on the books are of a similar mould.

So what I would now like to see, is the club now going for the very best out there to compliment what we already have. We will not be narow minded in going for just English as we know that this alone will not happen; but any foreign signings we make will now add something special that we do not have, or need more of. I am thinking of the Agueros of this world here. We can have a solid spine, a good future which is sustainable and the players imported from abroad to really reach for the pinnacle of the game.

The future is looking very bright indeed. What a difference a year makes!

[Benny The Noon]

Very good thread and very good posts - don't think there is much to disagree with .

The overriding thing for me is it's all positive coming from the club in every sense and gives us all a good feeling for the future - first time for a long time

[Tim LFC]

I think we want a good mixture of British talent - Gerrard,Johnson,Carra,Carroll,Henderson,Kelly Adam and Wickham will probably join as well and possibly Dann. I don't think we're just focusing on English due to Dalglish, he's obviously got a lot of say but FSG seem intent on top British talent as well, however I think we will sign some foreign talent we just haven't due to the window not opening. I think we'll get our domestic deals done then move onto the European market. Someone like Mata would be a perfect addition.

[SouthCoastShankly]

ENGLAND UNDER-21 TALENT IN FIERCE DEMAND WITH MORE SET TO FOLLOW IN FOOTSTEPS OF HENDERSON, JONES AND MANCIENNE

It has been a hectic summer already as far as the country's brightest young talents are concerned. England Under-21 team-mates Phil Jones, Jordan Henderson and Michael Mancienne have all moved clubs over the past 10 days in deals totalling almost £35 million. Former Blackburn centre-half Jones and ex-Sunderland midfielder Henderson have joined Manchester United and Liverpool respectively for £16 million each and Mancienne left Chelsea for SV Hamburg in a deal worth around £1.75 million. All three will be on show over the next fortnight as England Under-21s compete in the European Under-21 Championship in Denmark, but they are unlikely to be the only members of Stuart Pearce's squad who leave for pastures new over the coming months, even if Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley, both of United, are expected to remain where they are. Here, Anchorfan takes a look at some of the other England Under-21 players who are in demand -

JACK RODWELL
Trailed for the best part of two years by Manchester United, the Premier League champions' interest in Rodwell had cooled some time before they moved for Jones, but the Everton player - who is comfortable in defence or midfield - still has an army of admirers. Manchester City's interest is thought to be the strongest, although it remains to be seen if they are prepared to meet Everton's asking price of £20 million plus. Given the acrimony that surrounded Joleon Lescott's £24 million move from Goodison Park to City, there are no guarantees an agreement would be struck. Arsenal and Chelsea have also been monitored the player extensively.

CONNOR WICKHAM
The Ipswich Town striker has already been the subject of an £8 million bid from Liverpool, who are likely to follow up their initial interest with another offer. Given that England Under-21s kick off against Spain in Herning on Sunday, though, Wickham may have to wait until the tournament is over before his future is resolved. Liverpool are determined to build a squad with one eye firmly on the future and believe the 6ft 3in forward fits into their long-term strategy. He scored nine goals in the Championship last season.

DANIEL STURRIDGE
Chelsea are likely to rebuff all approaches for Sturridge, for whom they have high hopes, but Bolton Wanderers remain eager to take the striker back on loan after an impressive six-month spell at the Reebok Stadium from January onwards. Sturridge, who joined Chelsea from Manchester City in July 2009 after he failed to agree a new contract with the Manchester club, scored eight goals in 12 appearances for Bolton. Chelsea are likely to wait until a new manager is in place before a decision is made on Sturridge, but he could be given the chance to compete for a starting position depending on who comes and goes.

MARC ALBRIGHTON
With Ashley Young expected to leave Aston Villa for Manchester United and Liverpool chasing his club team-mate Stewart Downing, it seems implausible that the Midlands club would countenance the sale of Albrighton, even if they are in the hunt for a new manager to replace Gerard Houllier. Albrighton, 21, underlined his burgeoning potential last season, with the winger scoring six goals and claiming as many assists in 35 games.

JAMES TOMKINS
Continuing the long line of young talent to be unearthed by West Ham, the 6ft 3in centre-half is not certain to stay at Upton Park beyond the summer following the club's relegation from the Premier League, although he has another two years left to run on his contract. Tomkins has been linked with moves to Spurs and Newcastle in the past.

[url=http://www.anchorfan.com/blog/england-under21-talent-in-fierce-demand-with-more-set-to-follow-in-footsteps-of-henderson-
jones-and-mancienne](LINK)[/url]

[Tim LFC]

Wickham would be great.

[Scottbot]

DANIEL STURRIDGE
Chelsea are likely to rebuff all approaches for Sturridge, for whom they have high hopes, but Bolton Wanderers remain eager to take the striker back on loan after an impressive six-month spell at the Reebok Stadium from January onwards. Sturridge, who joined Chelsea from Manchester City in July 2009 after he failed to agree a new contract with the Manchester club, scored eight goals in 12 appearances for Bolton. Chelsea are likely to wait until a new manager is in place before a decision is made on Sturridge, but he could be given the chance to compete for a starting position depending on who comes and goes.

I wasn't keen at the time but you have to ask did we drop the ball when we said no to Sturridge coming across as £5 million makeweight in the Torres deal?

[ethanr]

DANIEL STURRIDGE
Chelsea are likely to rebuff all approaches for Sturridge, for whom they have high hopes, but Bolton Wanderers remain eager to take the striker back on loan after an impressive six-month spell at the Reebok Stadium from January onwards. Sturridge, who joined Chelsea from Manchester City in July 2009 after he failed to agree a new contract with the Manchester club, scored eight goals in 12 appearances for Bolton. Chelsea are likely to wait until a new manager is in place before a decision is made on Sturridge, but he could be given the chance to compete for a starting position depending on who comes and goes.

I wasn't keen at the time but you have to ask did we drop the ball when we said no to Sturridge coming across as £5 million makeweight in the Torres deal?

Did we say no?  If we did then it was definitely a mistake.  Sturridge did very well for Bolton and looks to be a player.

If we go after a player like Aguero, I think it could actually fit right into the system we want to play.  You still have the wingers with great crosses in Henderson and Downing, but now you've given them another option with Aguero and Suarez pushing out wide at times to help them. 

Very excited for this transfer window.