Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:24 am

Right, I have read throught the majority of posts on this forum and it seems that 95% are against Gerard Houllier suceeding and simply don't want to give the man a chance.

Not once this season have we been anything like full strength. We've ALWAYS been AT LEAST two players short and that was only against Arsenal. 1 match people, perspective?.

The injuries to the back 4 have disrupted that hugely. On no occasions have we had our first choice back 4 out on the pitch. Important players like Carragher and Henchoz playing 5 games between them and Finnan missing quite a few games certainly hasn't helped.

We've had our three best Midfielders on the pitch (Hamann, Gerrard, Kewell) for only for 2 games so far this season. Yes thats right 2 games. These three are players that would walk into any side in the world and to miss one is taking away basically a third of our midfield.

and for 2 games we've had our first choice strike partnership on the pitch.

yet all we seem to hear is how bad the current team is.

In terms of first XI i would say we are probably only just behind Arsenal and Chelsea and certainly on par with Manchester United. Yes Houllier has assembeled the squad but we all make mistakes. He signed Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, Biscan't and Traore who are never going to be good enough to play for this club.

But he's pulled off some great signings aswell... yet when people are willing to have a go they forget most of these or use the "that was in the past excuse".

a first 11 of:

GK Kirkland

RB Finnan
CB Henchoz
CB Hyypia
LB Carragher

RM Murphy
CM Gerrard
CM Hamann
LW Kewell

CF Owen
CF Baros

Looks pretty decent to me. Houllier knows where we need strengthening... hence the reason he is looking for a centre half and a striker and we are constantly being linked with Malbranque, Cisse and Boumsong who imo are the three players who could complete/greatly improve the side.

World class players:
Owen and Gerrard

Top Class players:
Kewell, Hyypia, Hamann

Quality players:
Finnan, Carragher, Dudek, Kirkland

Good players:
Henchoz, Murphy, Baros, Riise

Squad players
Smicer, Le Tallec, Pongolle, Vignal, Diouf

so with 2 more additions in the top 3 catorgarys we should have a squad strong enough to challenge for the league title. World class players are hard to come by and expensive also but realistic targets that would generally improve the side would be a good starting point.

I would personally put Cisse, Malbranque and Boumsong in the quality players bracket with the potential to move up one.

Right thats all i can be bothered with tonight am not well and off to bed. Look Forward to reading your replies.

Stu

by **116-1065305004** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:25 pm

Yeah but Houllier should have bought players who can come in for injured players and do a good job which he clearly hasnt.
While Houllier is in charge we will fall further and further back he has had his chance and he has blew it.

MARTIN O'NEILL FOR LIVERPOOL!

by **115-1073096938** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:44 pm

O'Neil is untried and untested at the highest level. He'll bring players in like Alan Thompson, Didier Agathe and Bobo Balde... thats not what we need. He also employs a 3-5-2 formation which simply won't get anything out of the players we currently have with maybe the exception of maybe Finnan.

His tactics and loyalty to underperforming players are far worse than Houlliers that i can garentee.

He is also a Heskey lover which will send us even furthur backwards.

Houllier has singed alot of good players since he took charge and has had to let some good players go down to finances. If we are to win the league again it is going to take ALOT of patience as we can't just go and do a chelsea or united and buy a team of superstars.

Bringing in a new manager would take another 4 or 5 years as they would have to bring in there own style and there own players so this imo is an absoloute waste of time.

He improved the side in the summer making 2 EXCELLENT signings and 2 potentially excellent signings and in my opinion, 1 and a half bad seasons and 5 or 6 mistakes in the transfer market don't make the man a bad manager. He won us three major trophies and has assembled a very good squad. If we improve the first XI the same way we did this year in the summer then next year we hav e EVERY chance.

The point you make about we should have the players to come in for these players,

are you saying Arsenal could cope without Henry, Bergkamp Pires, Cole, Lauren, Keown or United without RvN, Solskjaer, Giggs, O'Shea, Silvestre, Neville?

Please!!!!

Our injury list has been ludicrous this year and to honest damn right frustrating. We have been missing at least 4 first team definate starters for ever game (except Arsenal) so how can we honestly expect to compete with the top 3 clubs?

like i said... we haven't once had NEAR a full strength team on the pitch this season and we don't have the money to do a chelsea and just buy whoever he wants. He will get it right and if we are to get Cisse and Boumsong in the summer then i honestly think we will be good enough to win the league, so give the man a chance.

by **leothelion** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:32 am

HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON ONE FACT YES WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF INJURIES BUT A GOOD MANAGERS JOB IS TO PREPARE AND TO EXPECT INJURIES AND TO HAVE COVER
Ive SEEN OTHER TEAMS IN THE PAST LIKE THE MANCS HAVE A LOT OF INJURIES AND NOT SUCH GOOD PLAYERS TO COVER BUT FERGUSON WAS ABLE TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THEM

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:52 pm

Leo the point of what i am saying is mate he has had to take risks on players like Biscan, Traore, Cheyrou and Diao etc because he can't afford to spend rediculous amounts of money on players to sit on the bench. Sometimes he gets it wrong as alot of managers do.

I mean with Heskey, if we had the Heskey of the treble season instead of the lump of lard we have now we wouldn't need another striker... but he's gone backwards as a player which imo isn't down to the management. when he gets clattered he pretends he's hurt and looks for sympathy instead of jumping back to his feet. He hides in games and doesn't want the ball.

But at the minute its either him... or nothing.

I feel the squad has enough good players there... but we are lacking 2 or 3 class players.

the midfield is a good example.

Kewell, Hamann, Gerrard, Murphy.

You take Hamann, Gerrard or Kewell out of that midfield... any one of the three and you suffer greatly. Murphy is a good player in his own right, but he's a GOOD player like i said, not a class player. Same goes with Smicer.. good... not class. Malbranque maybe would be a soloution?

The attack...

Owen and Baros... again Owen world class... Baros a good player. so if Owens out... you have a good player and a lump of lard or a kid upfront.

Personally I think with Malbranque, Cisse and Boumsong we'd have enough to win the Champions league once they're settled so like i keep saying, give Houllier this and next season, judge the signings in the summer as how ambitious he is... then maybe we'll get a clearer picture instead of the distorted mess we have now.

By the way peeps.... if my posts don't make to much sense or have any structure i'm sorry... but i have so much to say on each issue i often get all muddled up an lost in my writing... sorry. lol.

by **HOMELEIGHKOP** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:11 pm

martin will get the best out of any player we have and if not he will sell them lets get rid of those who should not b in a red shirt.gh has done his best and yes we won 5 or 6 cups but as a reds fan i want to win everything cos we can b the best again:(

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:44 pm

Martin O'Neil has never worked with players of Owen and Gerrards Calibre so how can you say he will get the best out of them?

Tactically? playing wing backs who get lots of crosses in for Owen to use his ariel Prowess? Yeah can see that working. Playing Gerrard in a three man midfield where he isn't able to get box to box and has to cover stupid area's of the pitch? Yeah can see that aswell.

O'Neil is an average manager with exceptional motivational skills. Thats all. He's nothing speciall and would take Liverpool backwards. I'd rather see Roy Evans, Dalglish or Keegan over him.

Houllier still has it in him just give the man a chance.

by **HOMELEIGHKOP** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:03 pm

mate 5 years is a chance lets move forward then and evans is not a manager hes a waste of time

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 8:25 pm

5 years? 1 disrupted by illness, 2 f##ked up by bad signings... three other very good years of progress... one more season with the players he wants to bring in this summer is fair. Cisse and Boumsong?

Think about the starting 11.

Owen Cisse
Kewell Hamann Gerrard Murphy
Carragher Hyypia Boumsong Finnan
Kirkland

Thats stronger than anything in the league. Why not give him next season... see who he brings in in the summer then judge at the END of next season instead of being a Spurs about it all.

by **leothelion** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:51 am

KEEP POSTING STU SOME GOOD FACTS I CAN SEE THAT YOU ARE A TRU FAN BY YOUR STRONG FEELINGS
I HAVE BEEN A FAN FOR 30 YEARS AND ALSO HAVE SOME STRONG FEELINGS
UNFORTUNATLY MINE CLASH WITH YOURS I LIKE GH BUT THINK HIS TIME IS UP I WANT HIM TO STAY AT THE CLUB BUT NOT AS MANAGER
DONT THINK HE CAN GET THE BEST OUT OF THE PLAYERS WE HAVE

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:08 pm

stu_the_red wrote:O'Neil is untried and untested at the highest level. He'll bring players in like Alan Thompson, Didier Agathe and Bobo Balde... thats not what we need.

You are talking utter trash. O'Neill took a s##t Celtic team and transformed them into a team that's kicked our so-called better quality Prem Teams a#ses (Liverpool and Blackburn in Uefa cup to name a few), a team that was way behind Rangers and now totally dominates the Scottish League and Rangers, was 2 minutes away from being the first ever Scottish team to progress to second stage of Champs League, made the Final of the Eufa Cup, made Leicester a mid table, established Prem team, and he did this with so-called 'cr#p' players like Thompson, Balde, Heskey (haha). I seriously doubt he would bring in players of the quality he has done with Celtic (even though they all play out their skin every week for him). He is in charge of Celtic remember and he can only bring in players willing to play in the Scottish League. Imagine what he could do with Liverpool FC behind him.

GH on the other hand has done what? Oh yes, he was Technical Director for the French team.

In my opinion stu_the_red, you are either blind or you simply want to stand out from the crowd in putting your blind faith in GH.

But I do respect your opinion.

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:12 pm

stu_the_red wrote:O'Neil is an average manager with exceptional motivational skills. Thats all.

Hmm, who else comes into that category? Let me see, I'll name two managers who focused less on tactics and more on players and motivating them:

Alex Ferguson
Shanks

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:15 pm

stu_the_red wrote:one more season with the players he wants to bring in this summer is fair. Cisse and Boumsong?

Cisse looks over rated to me. I have my reservations. You should check your stats on him in the French League, they are not that good believe me. Boumsong? You need to keep your finger on the pulse he's signed for Rangers already.

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:50 pm

stu_le_red is a Houllier fanatic.To blame injuries this season for our position in the league and our lack of ideas on the field is an insult to our big squad that GH has assembled.Only Chelsea have a bigger 1st team squad.On stu and GH's calculations we only have 11 players and the rest of the squad are not good enough,but they are players GH bought so his credibility at spotting talent or nuturing it must come into great doubt.To claim a victory over Yeovil as "magnificent" is incredible and one can only assume that GH and stu have low standards for the beautiful game and already they have been achieved,even if it was 3 years ago.I posted back in April how lucky that treble was and yet GH failed to address the weaknesses in that team but continued on his defence at all costs policy.We gradually fell further and further,behind yet lady luck always managed to paper over the cracks for Houllier.Well the sands of time are fast running out and to claim we are 1 or 2 players away from Arsenal or Manu doesn't wash.Owen will be off at the end of the season,that is for sure,even if we manage to scramble to the top of the premier league division 2 and qualify for the champions league.St.Michael's body language this season tells a 1000 stories;he does not want to play for monsieur Houllier,and I'm sure there are other players who feel the same way.

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:49 pm

supersub wrote:stu_le_red is a Houllier fanatic.To blame injuries this season for our position in the league and our lack of ideas on the field is an insult to our big squad that GH has assembled.Only Chelsea have a bigger 1st team squad.On stu and GH's calculations we only have 11 players and the rest of the squad are not good enough,but they are players GH bought so his credibility at spotting talent or nuturing it must come into great doubt.To claim a victory over Yeovil as "magnificent" is incredible and one can only assume that GH and stu have low standards for the beautiful game and already they have been achieved,even if it was 3 years ago.I posted back in April how lucky that treble was and yet GH failed to address the weaknesses in that team but continued on his defence at all costs policy.We gradually fell further and further,behind yet lady luck always managed to paper over the cracks for Houllier.Well the sands of time are fast running out and to claim we are 1 or 2 players away from Arsenal or Manu doesn't wash.Owen will be off at the end of the season,that is for sure,even if we manage to scramble to the top of the premier league division 2 and qualify for the champions league.St.Michael's body language this season tells a 1000 stories;he does not want to play for monsieur Houllier,and I'm sure there are other players who feel the same way.

Amen to that brother.

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