Liverpool FC Forum

[supersub]

I'm at the game every week and I go because I love Liverpool,I want to be entertain,I love football.I live and breathe football,football the beautiful game.A sport that is easy to play..you know you recieve a pass,you look around and pass it to a team-mate then move into a position to recieve a pass;it's easy,as Shanks said an easy game made to look hard by fools.
   Stu,I don't go to the game,get pie-eyed in the ale-house,stand up and sing songs all game,curse the fans around me for not joining in and scream at them for going home early if things aren't going our way.I would never boo the team from the field but I have every right to air my views because when all the players have gone and Houllier has moved on and my little lad is banging in the goals,I will still be their,watching my team play,hopefully attractive football that all the world will say look at Liverpool,thats how the game should be played.
       I'm knackered I'm going to bed...s##t I've got to back the bottles...

[115-1073096938]

stu you must of missed last season because the garbage you've just spewed out was exactly how we played last year and it was cr#p,complete and utter cr#p.Now you being an expert on tactics should have noticed that the treble was won ,with the aid of lady luck,on those defensive instructions but that was 3 years ago and it hasn't worked since.Even your messiah Houllier has decided to ditch that approach,thankfully,and gone down the road of attack is probably the best means to gain admission into the champions league because strangely enough the best teams in Europe with probably the better tactically aware managers/coaches seem to employ an attacking style of play.

Last season we were jitterry, unorganised, lacked shape and had to deal with new signings who've simply not delivered. Also like i've said in football you make your own luck.... stan collymores goal against blackburn.... you don't shoot you don't score. end of.

Your comments on the better teams in europe being attacking sides. what was the score in the euro cup final? 0-0? thought so.. both teams italian and excellent defensive set ups. Its about playing to strengths not playing attacking football. if you have great attacking players then you risk playing that way... Madrid for example. But when they come up against a good defensive unit the had no answer and were outclassed by the better side.

Like i said its not about what system looks the best, its about what system gets the best out of your players, if thats defensive then so be it. arsenal are probably the best attacking side in europe, juventus are the best FOOTBALL team in europe. like it or not defensive play is as improtant to a good side as attacking play.

also your comment in this line...

Now you being an expert on tactics

is quite amusing considering you are tying to be a patronising idiot and in the post before i wrote...

Tactically i know practically f##k all to be honest

don't try an be a smart a#se it doesn't wash.

[115-1073096938]

Football is football i hate this shitty a#se obbsession with "attractive football".

Attractive football is seeing the side i live for winning games... doesn't matter weather is 1-0 and a scrappy match or 10-0 and we play pretty all game... i love to see us win. good football is winning football. whats the point in looking good if theres no end product? like when yer lookin to get married... its not always the most attractive looking you marry... its the person that you "click" with... to you they are special to someone else they maybe miss average.

the other day i was pleased when we beat yeovil. the performance wasn't great but who cares because we won right? wrong... we didn't win 8-0 houllier must go. thats all i head and to be honest its boring and pedantic.

[Dalglish]

Thanks Stu the red for demonstrating a  bit of passion backed with an in depth knowledge of what your actually talking about. Whilst i may not agree with everything you say (A fair bit i do  though) you are least free from the soundbites of others who think MO is the answer to everything and buying big is the key!!!!!!   Gh has done a sound job for 3 out of 4 seasons so far, and 1 of them he was in hospital. The consensus on here is so anti Houllier its (In MY Opinion) forgetting what GH has strived to do for this club, OK we haven't won the league and it irks me as much as the next fan but Gh has restored some credibility and dignity to Liverpool Football Club when it was quite frankly going down the pan. And you know something he might JUST prove the doom and gloomers on here wong by winning the Prem next season then this site will most probably become a "the Sunshine shines out of GH's a#se" ....Ain't fans fickle

Walk on .......

[supersub]

You're are not a football fan,you just like to be associated with Liverpool, because you don't care how they play,in fact you I'm quite sure even Houllier wouldn't come out with those comments,then again perhaps he would and he will move on to another team and forget about Liverpool,and the real supporters will hope that good football will thrive again on Merseyside,where the buzz of anticipation can be heard for miles around as the football fans walk upto the ground,talking about the match and not how to stifle the game and hope we grab a point or perhaps sneak a win.

I'm glad you've come to this forum because you've sparked some debate but I'll ask you not to use foul and abusive language please.This is a reference to earlier posts not the most recent.

[Dalglish]

Houllier Comments Last night att eh AGM That vision, shared by the board and myself, is to make Liverpool Football Club, your club, one, which demands respect, earns admiration, defines ambition and is loved by the fans. I want us to be respected because of the moral and ethical standards, which underpin the club, remaining faithful to our roots and believing in a strong set of values.

[115-1073096938]

fair enough i'll cut the swearing down a bit... does need it but to say i'm not a fan because i'd rather see my team be effective over a pretty is a bit pathetic don't you think. I play the game meself and have a team in a 6-a-side league.i'm no proffessional but would it suprise you if i said my teams strong point is its defense... bearing in mind i'm an attack minded player myself.

I like to know when we come off the pitch at the end of the game we've battled, shown the quality we have and have won the match.

a couple of times we've come off the pitch, created about 10-20 chances and the games finished 1-1. I know as a player, manager, fan or anything else what i'd rather have thank you very much.

[coops]

Thanks Stu the red for demonstrating a  bit of passion backed with an in depth knowledge of what your actually talking about.

What 'in depth' knowledge would that be? We are all curious.

[woof woof !]

There was a time when Liverpool were feared and respected by EVERY single team in the world. Although not responsible for our fall from that position GH after a bright beginning has done little to suggest that he is the man to lead us back to those glory days. In fact possibly our best spell in recent seasons was when GH was hospitalised and Thommo ran the team. Under Houllier we are in real danger of becoming  an Aston Villa, Spurs or Nottingham Forest i.e. teams who have all won european honours but look at them now !!!!!! Thanks GH I think you've done ALL that your ability allows but now it's time for you to do the decent thing and move on ! PS while GH is still there if I learn to speak french I reckon even though I'm 56 I stand a good chance of being signed:p

[redandblue]

Stu-the-red......kindly cut out the offensive comments to other guys here who don't share your views.

Many of us here, me included, want Houllier out because we feel he has taken the club as far as he can. Sure, we may finish in fourth spot. So what? We may win the FA Cup. So what.

LFC should and need to be up there with Arsenal, United and Chelsea with a fighting chance of winning the league. We have all had it with Houllier because we are not even close in terms of performances or results. Do we really believe that GH and this squad can compete with the top three next season? No. Absolutely not.

GH has had five years to build a platform for sustained success in the league. He has failed, no question about that. Even when we were on a good winning run at the start of last season, many of us out here knew that it was unconvincing because we simply are not good enough.

We know that every team has setbacks from time to time, but this team is hugely inconsistent. Beating Yeovil 2-0 was a terrific result given that we were shapeless and clueless in the first half.

We want a team which is competing at the highest levels. A team which can control a game for 90 minutes. A team which can take on the best and beat them convincingly. A team which has the character and personality to overturn a deficit and turn it into victory. A team which is capable of hammering so called weaker opponents. This Liverpool team is NONE of the above.

[115-1073096938]

support someone else then. Its going to take another manager years to buid a side that he wants. Houllier hasn't finished yet.

when he has if it hasn't worked thats the time to bring in a new manager.

just read alan hansens comments and david moores... i agree with what they say. mind you what would they know?

[JBG]

Stu The Red and Dalglish….I just want to respond to a few points you two guys have made:

1. Most Liverpool fans grew to love the club when it played attractive (if not completely spectacular) football in the 1960s, 1970s and the 1980s where the team passed the ball on the ground, keep possession, and stretch sides with explosive wingers, and won leagues and European cups by doing this. I agree with you 100% when you say that the most important thing in football is winning, regardless of how you do it (although I still maintain that the extreme Wimbledon style of football destroyed the English game and its still recovery from the dark days of the late 1980s and early 1990s). I supported Houllier up until last year because he was delivering results. I would have preferred if he played good football, but after watching Roy Evans’ side play good football but always miss out, I was prepared to over look this.

But Stu, you are contradicting yourself big time when you say that it doesn’t matter what way we play football as long as it gets results: we are playing terrible football and getting terrible results! I think that if we are to get bad results most people would prefer to at least see some good football: both Phil Babb and Igor Biscan are sh##e defenders but people would prefer to see a guy at least have a bit of footballing ability if the net result is that both are cr#p players.

2. Stu, in response to Supersub’s opinion (who we all respect around here) you said that teams make their own luck in football. That is correct, but luck balances out over time. I think that we were lucky at times in the 2001 season: Kluivert’s crazy handball at Anfield, Arsenal’s misses at Cardiff, Henchoz’ elbow blocks on the goal line, Leeds’ court case etc. Our luck ran out last year as we were playing badly, and Houllier this season insists that we are unlucky because of injuries and were unlucky in the games against Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal. Where was luck when Heskey was through on goal in the last minute against Man UTD at Anfield this season? Houllier said it was unlucky for Emile because he slipped, but everyone else saw it as Emile freaking out under the pressure, losing the cool, and making a wild, amueterish swing at the ball causing him to fall over!

3. Houllier did bring back a level of respect to Liverpool, particularly in Europe, but this only lasted for a short period of time. We are no longer repestected at all in England. Man UTD and Arsenal fans just laugh at us, and no football pundit has predicted that Liverpool will challenge for honours for a couple of years now. People are less and less interested in the Pool now: Chelsea are on Sky a hell of a lot more.

People laughed at us under Souness as it was a case of seeing how the mighty have fallen, but even back then people feared us as a club as we were able to compete with Man UTD in the transfer market and even the likes of Ferguson tought that the Souness regime was only a blip. Ferguson tried to steal Steve Staunton from us in 1997 as he was afraid that Staunton was one of the last pieces in the puzzle for us when Staunton returned from Villa. Ferguson always maintained that in the 1990s he saw Liverpool as UTD’s biggest long term threat, as the club was simply bigger than the likes of Arsenal, Newcastle and Chelsea. Now people don’t see it that way anymore.

4. I know that Owzat disagrees with me here (and Owzat normally is on the ball) but I do think that Martin O’ Neill is the only viable candidate for Liverpool at the moment. We haven’t a hope of luring the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Coppello, Hitzfield, Lippi etc to Anfield. After Houllier, Souness and Evans I am very wary of Toshak, Curbishley, Strachen, Rush or Hiidink being manager. I think that there are certain similarities between us and Man UTD in 1986 just before Ferguson took over. Ron Atkinson looked for a while that he might turn UTD into Champions, but his team collapsed, and it took a massive personality like Ferguson to turn the club around. The same appears to be the case at Anfield. O’ Neill is a very big personality with a lot of charisma and intelligence, and his record at Leicester and Celtic has shown that he is excellent at getting the best from his players. When he joined Celtic they were miles behind Rangers: it wasn’t a two team league in Scotland when O’ Neill took over, it was Rangers’ league. O’ Neill turned things around in a season. The pressure and expectation at Celtic is huge as John Barnes and Liam Brady found out. It is true that with the exception of Larson he hasn’t managed superstars, although he did get the best out of Stan Collymore at Leciester until Stan broke his leg.

People also say that he is managing a side in a two team league, but what of his results in Europe?

I just think that we cannot afford to sign a guy who has won two or three leagues in a competitive championship: those kind of managers go to Man UTD, Juventus, Real, Barcelona, Bayern etc. O’ Neill has a lot to prove, but in my opinion he is capable of taking the step up to the bigger challenge.

Someone also said recently that Celtic are an avergae team with poor players who would struggle in the Premiership. Well, last season they beat Liverpool and Blackburn, the teams that finished 5 and 6th!

[Owzat]

Chelsea spent more this season than Houllier has in his entire reign... thats without taking into account the previous 4 years.

Man Utd
RvN - £18m
Veron - £28m
Ferdinand £30

jib it can't be arsed looking but theres £74 from united in the last 2 years on three players... chelsea spend a ridiculous amount in the summer, how can you expect us to compete with that without patience and belief? footballs changed people... get used to it.

I did an analysis on another site a while back cause some manc claimed manu hadn't spent "considerably more" than any other premiership team (pre-Abrahamovic) If I recall correctly Liverpool had spent something like £116m compared with £144m by manu over the same period (98/99 to date) If you consider manu spent £28m on Veron and £30m on Ferdinand, that equates to only one player more, albeit a ridiculously expensive one. Compare the results of the two teams and manu have won considerably more and considerably bigger trophies. Houllier's two League Cups, FA Cup and UEFA Cup effectively cost us approximately £28m each!

Wenger on the other hand has spent less and probably has been the best value for money in terms of trophies of all the top flight club managers. Abrahamovic has spent huge amounts and still they fared no better than us against Charlton! I am not convinced money has been spent wisely at Chelsea and I think a number of their signings were expensive average players, almost certainly not top quality (Johnson at £6m, Veron at £14m)

[Owzat]

Someone also said recently that Celtic are an avergae team with poor players who would struggle in the Premiership. Well, last season they beat Liverpool and Blackburn, the teams that finished 5 and 6th!

Celtic are an average team. They beat Liverpool over two legs and Blackburn over two legs, not maintained a campaign in the English 38 game Premiership. Results like that happen, hell we could easily have gone out to Sheff Utd in the League Cup last season. We effectively went out over two legs vs Crystal Palace in the FA Cup and I wouldn't rate them higher than us - would you?

[redandblue]

O'Neill has worked wonders with them. I do question O'Neill tactically........he has managed to turn Parkhead into a fortress on European nights. They have played some big names at Parkhead (Juventus, Bayern Munich) and of the nine Championship matches played at home over the past three years, they have won eight and drawn one. It is a fantastic home record.

Unfortunately, their away record is awful and they have lost all nine away. Some of those were desperately unlucky, but nonetheless they have lost the lot.

Tactically I think that he has a lot to learn but he gets players playing above themselves which in itself counts for a lot. And he'd learn quickly. He is also refreshingly honest when his team loses!! I think that he'd do a very good job at Anfield. He is probably the best candidate around.