Liverpool FC Forum

My opinion on this is Yes, the job is definitely too big for him. Why fsg appointed him in the first place still baffles me to this day. A club of Liverpool's stature and global fanbase needs someone  at least of Rafa's calibre ie won titles in the tough leagues. Not a manager with one year experience in PL that finished midtable and a struggling Watford and sacked Reading manager previously. Why did they think such a guy was good enough to bring back the glories?

Fsg can be ruthless if you don't get the results. If they can sack the King, they won't think twice to sack Brendan if results continue to deteriorate to Christmas starting with a CL defeat in Bulgaria. TBH we're the worst performing side in the PL at the moment.

Yes, the job is to big for him.  Imo, he won't go before the Ludogarets game, however, I do think a decision by the Owners will have been made after the Crystal Palace game one way or another!

Interesting stats... (should be noted Rafa didn't have 200 million to spend either)

Reg » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:52 am wrote:Eds as usual you get the wrong end of the stick, usually the end that's covered in pooh.

'The 'Yanks' as you call them bought a business and pay a management team in Liverpool to run it. They have an agreed business plan and a budget. Within the framework of that business plan, the management are free to do what they want and in the case of buyers, buy and sell who they want as long as the profile and value conforms to the agreed plan.

So, to clarify for your end of the stick, Ayres (another one you love, and of course Parry before him) and BR have agreed to the business plan and are accountable for it's implementation and success. If it becomes obvious the business plan is not working then as with any other business, the management can go back to the owners and present their case for changing the strategy. So the problem right now is the Liverpool management's inability to implement the agreed strategy, which is not 'the yanks' fault. If you had written 'The problem is that having been given the green light by the owners to spend 120 million, BR went out and bought a load of sh!te' then I would have agreed with you. But you prefer an 'Us and Them' scenario to deflect the blame onto 'the owners' - a kind of anti authority thing eh?

Accountability and responsibility is 100% in Liverpool mate, not in the States.

Oh Reginald where do I start? 

The agreed business plan and budget as I have pointed out quiet plainly has been dictated by the owners and FSG.

Rodgers, Ayres and management team (as you call it) at Liverpool do not have the authority to dictate the terms of the business plan and/or budget.

Of course they could go back at any moment to the owners and present a change of strategy but then the owners would ask them why, and on what grounds? If this contradicts the very reason why they have been appointed (which is what I was implying with Rodgers) then they would be out the door, quicker then a flash.

Remember they were brought in with the premise that they believed hold heartedly in what FSG are trying to carry out at Liverpool. You would look rather stupid arguing with the very reason why you were appointed in the first place?

As plain as the nose on your face Reginald old boy, neither Rodgers, Ayres or anyone over at Liverpool would be able to carry out such a ridiculous strategy of buying young players and inexpensive fill-ins, to build a trophy chasing side. As I have painfully pointed out you need a spine to do this, with quality players, which at times will mean you will have to spend and dare I say it pay them market based salaries.

*Sigh* now comes the fun part so your silly little mind doesn't go into over-drive and race against common sense and reasoning (as it normally does).

I have never said this was the owners complete doing. Rodgers, Ayres and our owners are all responsible for the mess we find ourselves. I have lost count how many times I have said Rodgers has p.iss.ed our transfer money away, yet you never agreed with me. Instead we find ourselves having rather dull discussions on "pooh sticks" or whatever f**king fetish you fantasy about Reginald. The point I was trying to make is that I am more worried for our longer term stability because it's plain as day that whatever business strategy these "yanks" have tried to employ, it has gone tits up with Rodgers. And bringing in another puppet to carry out the same formula will be suicidally stupid.

Did I hear right? £200M+ is now a moderate budget? I remember well many here would rather an owner to stay passive and let the footballing man run the show. Now the professionals have flushed majority of the budget down the toilet and somehow the blame is now being shifted to the owner for being too passive? wtf is that?

The arrogant one wanted no DOF sharing any power with him and wants to call all the shots, so why is he not carrying the entire blame? he is the one counting on an ageing Gerrard and a waste of space Johnson for every minute they are available...is that so hard for him to see this problem when the fans have been (whispering at first) shouting for a change. A player like Henderson, Sterling and Countinho don't just turned to a bad player in a matter of months. All the stats pointed towards Lovren being one of the best defender in the league last year but under the arrogant one, his confidence are shot to pieces. This man is so stubborn and arrogant that anyone questioning his authority (Reina, Agger) are quickly shipped out at whatever cost, and he keep going back to the players that he have worked with previously (Borini, Allen, Siggurdson etc) hoping to build an empire where he is able to consolidate his power base, not caring one bit if these players are Liverpool's standard. So now we rather an owner who will sign any players to his fancy irregardless of whether the manager wanted him? I get it now...you want your cake and eat it too. Nice...

cardiff-red » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:55 am wrote:Interesting stats... (should be noted Rafa didn't have 200 million to spend either)

True, Benitez had convinced the likes of Dani Alves and David Silva to sign for us only for the board to pull the plug on the deals over money. Lack of money was the bane of Rafa's reign, he was forced to try and find value in the market and to be fair his did find quite a few good players like Alonso, Agger, Reina, Arbeloa, Skrtel, Lucas etc who were all signed for around £10m or less. For the want of an extra 7 or 8 million we could have easily fielded this side -

                                             Reina

         Alves                Carragher       Agger             Arbeloa

                                 Alonso           Mascherano

                     Silva               Gerrard           Kuyt

                                            Torres

Eds, let me clarify what you said. The CEO and the team manager (effectively the general manager of the team side of the business as opposed to the commercial side of the club) have no input on the business plan and strategy to achieve those targets.

If you honestly believe that mate then no wonder the world's in economic crisis.

Beam me up Scottie.

Just a few points:

The Owners have backed BR by investing millions and want the best for the Club. BR and the Committee have been clueless in the summer transfer market.

The fans wanted money to be spent (and rightly so) on the correct players for the system (s) that we would play and employed by BR. The Owners wanted the same thing as the fans. As a result, the club, having spent millions upon millions of pounds, which BR and the Committee wasted big time, are now heavily in debt. This has put the club in a difficult position with regards to FFP.

I really don’t know whether bringing in the likes of Carra would be a good thing or not. The best people need to be brought into the club regardless of who they are. Whatever happens, be it this week or the next  month or so, they (the Owners) will  need to make necessary changes including staff at all levels. As far as targets go, the way it’s looking short and medium term, I don’t think we’ll be top of the EPL this season (winning the EPL  was one of the promises made to the Owners by you know who). I’m not even sure we’ll  finish top 4 if things are not changed dramatically by a very stubborn and arrogant BR. Ludogarets will be very tough game. LFC struggled last time against them, so at their home………. progressing out of the Group Stages of the CL is not going to be easy.  As for next season, you get that transition feeling again, oh, sorry, we’re already in one, again.

I’ve heard a rumour that 2017 is pivotal for the Owners, they may sell up then and this will most likely be because of pressure and stability on the finance side (long term forecast etc). Another rumour I heard is that a bad way forward will be Institutional Ownership which is possibly where the likes of Mwanck Utd may end up.  This is a complicated area so will need a bit more digging, hence my take on it may be a little of track, but the way I understand it, it looks like each City may end up with one Club.

I know that’s it’s been reported that the Owners have backed BR despite the result from yesterday and previous games, but the Club have declined to comment. I wonder why!!

I wish people would stop saying we wasted the money, I don't think we have, I'm convinced the likes of Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Origi, Ilorri etc will be very, very good players by the time they get into their mid 20's, in fact some of them are more than decent now at 19/20, it's not them who are letting us down it's the old guard.
With hindsight though after going so close last year and losing Suarez we probably needed to buy players who were closer to becoming the finished product as opposed to potential.

When we had no money, we had a manager who knew how to spend it (Benitez).
When we had money we had a manager that doesn't know how to spend it (Rodgers).
At one point we had the best defence in the league.
At one point we had the best midfield in the league.
At one point we had the best Attack in the league.

All in different seasons, maybe one day it will click! 

Sorry to slide off topic.  Yes this is too big a job for him.  His track record at Watford and Reading is alarming, gets promoted with Swansea and gets the biggest job in English football.

I'm not being funny here but he's been found out big time.

Is it ironic that in his playing days he was a defender ?!   Fancy that! 

Everybody could see Suarez was never going too stay long term with us,that was obvious even when Kenny was in charge!
So why wasn't this taken in to account & why didn't we line up a proper replacement,instead we get Mario who not all his own fault but was never going to fit our style of football from last season...plus just looking @ his scoring record was plain to see he isn't prolific.
Sturridge is a great player but very injury prone,just like RVP was for Arsenal. So why wasn't this taken into account?
We could all see Stevie G was never going to be the same player he was for us with age catching him up,have we Lined up a replacement,someone say like Eriksen....No!
We have never really replace Macho in the defensive midfield role either!
Brendon's had plenty of money too sort these problems,instead we have bought the likes of Aspas,Allen etc etc.
Just hope he can turn this mess around but I'm really starting to have my doubts

Player Club Fee Date
Fabio Borini Roma £10,400,000 13 July 2012
Joe Allen Swansea City £15,000,000 10 August 2012
Oussama Assaidi Heerenveen £3,000,000 17 August 2012
Nuri Sahin Real Madrid On Loan 25 August 2012
Samed Yesil Bayer Leverkusen £1,000,000 30 August 2012
Daniel Sturridge Chelsea £12,000,000 2 January 2013
Philippe Coutinho Inter Milan £8,500,000 30 January 2013
João Carlos Teixeira Sporting Lisbon £830,000 31 January 2013
Luis Alberto Sevilla £6,800,000 22 June 2013
Iago Aspas Celta Vigo £7,000,000 23 June 2013
Simon Mignolet Sunderland £9,000,000 25 June 2013
Kolo Touré Free Transfer Free 2 July 2013
Aly Cissokho Valencia On Loan * 20 August 2013
Mamadou Sakho Paris St Germain £15,000,000 2 September 2013
Tiago Ilori Sporting Lisbon £7,000,000 2 September 2013
Victor Moses Chelsea On Loan * 2 September 2013
Rickie Lambert Southampton £4,500,000 2 June 2014
Adam Lallana Southampton £25,000,000 * 1 July 2014
Emre Can Bayer Leverkusen £9,750,000 3 July 2014
Lazar Markovic Benfica £19,800,000 15 July 2014
Dejan Lovren Southampton £20,000,000 * 27 July 2014
Divick Origi Lille £9,800,000 * 29 July 2014
Javier Manquillo Atletico Madrid On Loan 6 August 2014
Alberto Moreno Sevilla £12,000,000 * 16 August 2014
Mario Balotelli AC Milan £16,000,000 25 August 2014

Brendan Rodgers bought 25 players for £212,380,000

Fábio Aurélio Free Transfer Free * 1 June 2012
David Amoo Free Transfer Free * 1 June 2012
Stephen Darby Free Transfer Free * 1 June 2012
Dirk Kuyt Fenerbahce £1,000,000 3 June 2012
Maxi Rodriguez Newell's Old Boys Undisclosed 13 July 2012
Alberto Aquilani Fiorentina £7,000,000 3 August 2012
Craig Bellamy Cardiff City Undisclosed 10 August 2012
Charlie Adam Stoke City £5,000,000 * 31 August 2012
Nathan Eccleston Blackpool Unknown 31 August 2012
Joe Cole West Ham United Free 4 January 2013
Nuri Sahin Real Madrid Returns from loan 11 January 2013
Alexander Doni Botafogo Free 31 January 2013
Peter Gulacsi Red Bull Salzburg £0 7 June 2013
Andy Carroll West Ham United £15,000,000 19 June 2013
Jonjo Shelvey Swansea City £6,000,000 3 July 2013
Jay Spearing Bolton Wanderers £1,700,000 9 August 2013
Stewart Downing West Ham United £6,000,000 13 August 2013
Dani Pacheco Alcorcon Free 2 September 2013
Adam Morgan Yeovil Town Undisclosed 2 January 2014
Luis Suarez Barcelona £75,000,000 16 July 2014
Conor Coady Huddersfield Town £500,000 * 6 August 2014
Pepe Reina Bayern Munich £2,000,000 8 August 2014
Martin Kelly Crystal Palace £1,500,000 14 August 2014
Kristoffer Peterson Utrecht Undisclosed 27 August 2014
Jack Robinson Queens Park Rangers £1,000,000 28 August 2014
Daniel Agger Brøndby £3,000,000 30 August 2014

Brendan Rodgers sold 26 players for £124,700,000

Reg » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:49 pm wrote:Eds, let me clarify what you said. The CEO and the team manager (effectively the general manager of the team side of the business as opposed to the commercial side of the club) have no input on the business plan and strategy to achieve those targets.

If you honestly believe that mate then no wonder the world's in economic crisis.

Beam me up Scottie.

There you go jumping to conclusions as I predicted you would. 

Ayre and Rodgers have input into the business plan and strategy as they are the ones that carry out how to achieve these targets.

That's not what I am arguing and obviously you fail to understand my point......AGAIN.

Seeing as you seem to be a bit thick around the edges, for the last time........the mantra of bringing in young players and getting cheap fill-ins based on their statistical output is an ideology that the owners have brought to this club. Ayre, Rodgers and everyone in the club's management believes in this same mantra so why would they challenge it?  If they were to challenge it this would go against why they were appointed in the first place.

That's why people like Benitez or any other strong willed managers aren't welcome at our club, because they would be at logger heads with the owners, Ayres and management on the overall running of the club. At the end of the day if you wanted to drastically change Liverpool's business direction including the business plan and strategy you would need ultimate buy-in from the business owners (like any other privately owned company). Guess what would happen at a board meeting if you presented something that would clash with their overall ideology?  

Don't lecture me on business practices Reginald, because you obviously haven't a f**king clue how the real world operates, now beam yourself back to the USS Enterprise and let the adults continue talking.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:32 pm wrote:I wish people would stop saying we wasted the money, I don't think we have, I'm convinced the likes of Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Origi, Ilorri etc will be very, very good players by the time they get into their mid 20's, in fact some of them are more than decent now at 19/20, it's not them who are letting us down it's the old guard.
With hindsight though after going so close last year and losing Suarez we probably needed to buy players who were closer to becoming the finished product as opposed to potential.

You are contradicting yourself here Yakka. On one hand you are adamant that we haven't wasted any money by getting players that "may" come good over time. Yet at the same time you point out that we need to get players that were more the finished article. Which is exactly why the money was wasted......