Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Thanks for sharing your management wisdom Eds, everything's crystal clear now.

The only scenario in which a strong willed manager would not be welcome is if his view differs from the business plan under which he was employed, at which point the owners would simply state it was the agreed plan; that he and Ayres agreed to it, they still believe it to be the right strategy so if you don't like it then its time for him to leave. No more devious than that.

Try not to look at LFC as a team of footballers and but as a straight forward business, otherwise we go round in circles ignoring the basic principle of accountability. Accountability is the last piece of the jigsaw.

[killerp]

I'm curious who would win a game if the IN's played the OUT's, just imagine formation would look something like this

OUT's

                        Reina

Darby       Agger       Kelly      Aurelio

                      Adam   

Downing         Aquilani           Rodriquez
                     
                     Suarez

                     Pacheco


Suarez alone would make it 3-0 to the outgoing team.


IN

Player Club Fee Date
Fabio Borini Roma £10,400,000 13 July 2012
Joe Allen Swansea City £15,000,000 10 August 2012
Oussama Assaidi Heerenveen £3,000,000 17 August 2012
Nuri Sahin Real Madrid On Loan 25 August 2012
Samed Yesil Bayer Leverkusen £1,000,000 30 August 2012
Daniel Sturridge Chelsea £12,000,000 2 January 2013
Philippe Coutinho Inter Milan £8,500,000 30 January 2013
João Carlos Teixeira Sporting Lisbon £830,000 31 January 2013
Luis Alberto Sevilla £6,800,000 22 June 2013
Iago Aspas Celta Vigo £7,000,000 23 June 2013
Simon Mignolet Sunderland £9,000,000 25 June 2013
Kolo Touré Free Transfer Free 2 July 2013
Aly Cissokho Valencia On Loan * 20 August 2013
Mamadou Sakho Paris St Germain £15,000,000 2 September 2013
Tiago Ilori Sporting Lisbon £7,000,000 2 September 2013
Victor Moses Chelsea On Loan * 2 September 2013
Rickie Lambert Southampton £4,500,000 2 June 2014
Adam Lallana Southampton £25,000,000 * 1 July 2014
Emre Can Bayer Leverkusen £9,750,000 3 July 2014
Lazar Markovic Benfica £19,800,000 15 July 2014
Dejan Lovren Southampton £20,000,000 * 27 July 2014
Divick Origi Lille £9,800,000 * 29 July 2014
Javier Manquillo Atletico Madrid On Loan 6 August 2014
Alberto Moreno Sevilla £12,000,000 * 16 August 2014
Mario Balotelli AC Milan £16,000,000 25 August 2014

OUT

Fábio Aurélio Free Transfer Free * 1 June 2012
David Amoo Free Transfer Free * 1 June 2012
Stephen Darby Free Transfer Free * 1 June 2012
Dirk Kuyt Fenerbahce £1,000,000 3 June 2012
Maxi Rodriguez Newell's Old Boys Undisclosed 13 July 2012
Alberto Aquilani Fiorentina £7,000,000 3 August 2012
Craig Bellamy Cardiff City Undisclosed 10 August 2012
Charlie Adam Stoke City £5,000,000 * 31 August 2012
Nathan Eccleston Blackpool Unknown 31 August 2012
Joe Cole West Ham United Free 4 January 2013
Nuri Sahin Real Madrid Returns from loan 11 January 2013
Alexander Doni Botafogo Free 31 January 2013
Peter Gulacsi Red Bull Salzburg £0 7 June 2013
Andy Carroll West Ham United £15,000,000 19 June 2013
Jonjo Shelvey Swansea City £6,000,000 3 July 2013
Jay Spearing Bolton Wanderers £1,700,000 9 August 2013
Stewart Downing West Ham United £6,000,000 13 August 2013
Dani Pacheco Alcorcon Free 2 September 2013
Adam Morgan Yeovil Town Undisclosed 2 January 2014
Luis Suarez Barcelona £75,000,000 16 July 2014
Conor Coady Huddersfield Town £500,000 * 6 August 2014
Pepe Reina Bayern Munich £2,000,000 8 August 2014
Martin Kelly Crystal Palace £1,500,000 14 August 2014
Kristoffer Peterson Utrecht Undisclosed 27 August 2014
Jack Robinson Queens Park Rangers £1,000,000 28 August 2014
Daniel Agger Brøndby £3,000,000 30 August 2014

[Octsky]

it's scary when alberto and llori came at a combine fee of 15m without kicking a ball too much with us, while tim cahill went from bolton to chels for less than 8m.

it's more scary when we did not replace suarez who contributed to 50 goals/assists the previous season,
br himself said that sturridge injury record means we need another striker, lambs was brought in as a back up,
borini was always going to be sold. so br had only one main striker, another back up striker and another world class striker is needed. even amateurs like us know it.
so why did we then go for mario at the only last 2 weeks before the transfer window is going to close?
especially when we knew that we have a huge void to fill in suarez, sturridge is not going to play 50 games, borini is on the unofficial transfer list and lambie is just a back up.

if at the start of this season and we need to sum up our transfer policy in less than 50 words, it will be " replace suarez, strengthen defense". end of story.
that means replacing skertel and maybe simon too.
so why did we sign marko, lorven and mario? signing lalala is good in my opinion.

[Reg]

Looking back on it we did very well to get the following money:

Charlie Adam Stoke City £5,000,000 * 31 August 2012
Andy Carroll West Ham United £15,000,000 19 June 2013
Jonjo Shelvey Swansea City £6,000,000 3 July 2013
Stewart Downing West Ham United £6,000,000 13 August 2013

Most of our sales have been miserable returns.

[RedAnt]

Looking back on it we did very well to get the following money:

Charlie Adam Stoke City £5,000,000 * 31 August 2012
Andy Carroll West Ham United £15,000,000 19 June 2013
Jonjo Shelvey Swansea City £6,000,000 3 July 2013
Stewart Downing West Ham United £6,000,000 13 August 2013

Most of our sales have been miserable returns.

Why include Carroll? Ok, BR didn't sign him, but he cost £35m and the first thing BR did was show him the door. That, for me, was the first example of what Brendan's like as a manager. The "vision" was in BR's head, Carroll wasn't part of it and never would be. A key example of a lack of adaptability. I'd say adaptability is very important for a PL manager.
It was a £20m loss right away.

[Stu the Red]

Looking back on it we did very well to get the following money:

Charlie Adam Stoke City £5,000,000 * 31 August 2012
Andy Carroll West Ham United £15,000,000 19 June 2013
Jonjo Shelvey Swansea City £6,000,000 3 July 2013
Stewart Downing West Ham United £6,000,000 13 August 2013

Most of our sales have been miserable returns.

Can't say I agree with that at all Reg to be honest with the exception of Carroll who was a massive mistake. The fact is, Downing, Adam and Shelvey are no worse than some of the players we've got in the squad now and even since signed. If you offered me Downing or Markovic I'd bite your hand off and to be honest, despite Adam's lack of speed he did have attributes Henderson, Lucas and Allen don't possess and I don't the gap is anything like substantial enough to say I'd be happy with what we have.

On Shelvey, the lad isn't a bad player at all and one I'd have kept, as in terms of a squad player and his age he had a bit to offer. He's easily as good as the likes of Henderson and Allen and probably Can...Yet we've found ourselves trying to relace him with players like Allen, Can and Alberto who cost a total of £32,000,000 between them... for me its a criminal waste of money and money that should have been spent elsewhere on pressing issues... We've effectively spent £32,000,000 on trying to replace Shelvey... Think about that for a second....

[Stu the Red]

Why include Carroll? Ok, BR didn't sign him, but he cost £35m and the first thing BR did was show him the door. That, for me, was the first example of what Brendan's like as a manager. The "vision" was in BR's head, Carroll wasn't part of it and never would be. A key example of a lack of adaptability. I'd say adaptability is very important for a PL manager.
It was a £20m loss right away.

I personally have no problem with though, Carroll was a donkey and never upto it, not to mention if he doesn't fit then get shut. Can't say I have any problem with the loss made on Carroll or situation he left in with regards to the manager. I'm not a Rodgers fan, but thats one stick I wouldn't use to beat him with. Had i been in that siutation he'd have also been the first name out of the door.

[devaney]

I actually thought that LFC did very well to get the loan fee followed by a sale price of c£15m. Yes it was a loss and Rodger's clearly had no time for the lad but what is he worth now GIVEN HIS INJURY RECORD AND GENERAL LACK OF ABILITY.

[Reg]

What I meant was if the clubs had stuck to their guns they could have got each of those players for half of what they paid. Maybe Shelvey is the exception.

[Santa]

I wish people would stop saying we wasted the money, I don't think we have, I'm convinced the likes of Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Origi, Ilorri etc will be very, very good players by the time they get into their mid 20's, in fact some of them are more than decent now at 19/20, it's not them who are letting us down it's the old guard.
With hindsight though after going so close last year and losing Suarez we probably needed to buy players who were closer to becoming the finished product as opposed to potential.

You are contradicting yourself here Yakka. On one hand you are adamant that we haven't wasted any money by getting players that "may" come good over time. Yet at the same time you point out that we need to get players that were more the finished article. Which is exactly why the money was wasted......

I agreed with what Yakka said...eds you seems to be missing the point. There is a difference between money wasted vs resources wrongly allocated. Borini last season was not money wasted (we could have received £14M for him). Borini this season would be money wasted (because we are paying his high salary for seating on the bench contributing nothing, and will have to accept around £6~£10M less to get him out of the door)

The owner made the money available, they might not be an expert in all things football but they do know how to run a successful sports team. Problem is this was misallocated by the Arrogant One and as a results we are suffering and fighting a relegation battle now! Who else is calling for the owner to share the blame needs to have his head examined...crazy how some people have no understanding how the real world operates 

[red till i die!!]

Anything rodgers has inherited he has been allowed to get rid for next to nothing. when it comes to his own players though its a different story and the Fee's asked for namely borini and assaidi were more than the initial fee's paid. We will not turn a profit on the majority of his signings. shifting all his deadwood is going to come at a serious loss and will no doubt bite the hole off us in a year or 2.

we sold kelly for a poxy 1.5 mil and then paid 2 mil for manquillo's loan deal while we play a lad who has no future here   ship out coates and wisdom on loan and then spend 40 million replacing them 

[maguskwt]

I wish people would stop saying we wasted the money, I don't think we have, I'm convinced the likes of Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Origi, Ilorri etc will be very, very good players by the time they get into their mid 20's, in fact some of them are more than decent now at 19/20, it's not them who are letting us down it's the old guard.
With hindsight though after going so close last year and losing Suarez we probably needed to buy players who were closer to becoming the finished product as opposed to potential.

Totally agreed. Some of the criticism on here is just ridiculous. I believe we have a good set of young players yakka mentioned above. But BR has to take responsibility for:
1. Not finding an adequate replacement for Gerrard
2. Still somehow playing Glenn Brazilian wannabe Johnson despite having a better replacements in manquillo and moreno.
3. Not finding an improvement over mignolet
4. Probably not buying remy... But that's on hindsight due to Sturridge injuries and balotelli not performing
5. Still having to play allen
6. Not managing to get the best out of balotelli
7. Rotating too much the likes of lallana and Markovic

[maguskwt]

I wish people would stop saying we wasted the money, I don't think we have, I'm convinced the likes of Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Origi, Ilorri etc will be very, very good players by the time they get into their mid 20's, in fact some of them are more than decent now at 19/20, it's not them who are letting us down it's the old guard.
With hindsight though after going so close last year and losing Suarez we probably needed to buy players who were closer to becoming the finished product as opposed to potential.

Totally agreed. Some of the criticism on here is just ridiculous. I believe we have a good set of young players yakka mentioned above. But BR has to take responsibility for:
1. Not finding an adequate replacement for Gerrard
2. Still somehow playing Glenn Brazilian wannabe Johnson despite having a better replacements in manquillo and moreno.
3. Not finding an improvement over mignolet
4. Probably not buying remy... But that's on hindsight due to Sturridge injuries and balotelli not performing
5. Still having to play allen
6. Not managing to get the best out of balotelli
7. Rotating too much the likes of lallana and Markovic

[Stu the Red]

I wish people would stop saying we wasted the money, I don't think we have, I'm convinced the likes of Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Markovic, Origi, Ilorri etc will be very, very good players by the time they get into their mid 20's, in fact some of them are more than decent now at 19/20, it's not them who are letting us down it's the old guard.
With hindsight though after going so close last year and losing Suarez we probably needed to buy players who were closer to becoming the finished product as opposed to potential.

How can you say it wasn't wasted?

I don't also buy the hindsight arguement either. I called this from EARLY SUMMER and could see it then, so why can a "clueless fan" on a message board envisage such these basic problems that would occur, yet our manager who you think is such a genius fails to grasp these basic concepts.

The idea of spending money is to improve the team. Anythin else is a waste... The only time we should be signing "for the future" and prospects is A. If they're going to improve the team.... or B. You have money left over after making the required improvements to the team. We've had glaring improvements that have needed to be made since the day of Rodgers reign began and he's failed time and time again to do so. I don't understand how you can justify the money spent at all to be honest.

To fail to improve this side after spending the amount we have is not only a waste its boardering on criminal activety.

Every manager can make mistakes in the market, every manager can make bad signings or misjudge someone or something, but the point is Rodgers hasn't improved the side with the millions and millions he's spent with the exception of two players... (Coutinho and Sturridge) He's spent over £180,000,000 on other players who either... aren't suited to the system in any way what so ever, such as Lovren and Balotelli, both of which I think are very very good footballers with a lot to offer if used correctly... two players I believe could play for a top four side easily, but neither of which are being used in a system which gets anything out of them, we're actually playing to their weaknesses rather than their strengths... Balotelli is a quality player, but he's a completely different player to Suarez. We were never going to get anyone as good as Suarez, so we were always going to be weaker in attack this season, that was a given... but to sign a player so different and expect the same style of performances is shocking management to be quite frank. Had we signed Sanchez or Tevez, then by all means go with the same style, but signing a player like Mario or Ibramhimavic or another type was clearly going to need a change in system.

Are not ready first teamers... Can and Manquillo being examples... Two players by the way I ordinarily wouldn't be so set against, had a manager with even an average record in the market have signed. Both players look in the years to come they could add to the squad.. but again... its the word squad rather than first team. I'm not sure either are going to become top players. Manquillo has a bit of Rob Jones about him but going forward he's looked nervous to me. Can, while showing nothing in games has shown things in others... I don't think he'll ever be a consistent top player, but one of the oddest things about him is he doesn't fit or define a system we play, which as a central midfielder you'd think is a must.

Some, just aren't ever going to be good enough or even worse...

Haven't pulled on a shirt for the club.

Origi, Moreno and Markovic, while, not only not looking like them as players what so ever.. Thats over £45,000,000 wasted, on not only rubbish, but two of which haven't even looked like they could even compete at this level, even to a poor standard.

I don't believe in having a go at Rodgers for signings like Assaidi or Lambert... sometimes you sign a player like Assaidi for £2,500,000 loan him out and then get £5,000,000 a season or two later...

I look at the bigger picture though... Shelvey was sold for £6,000,000 as someone pointed out in another thread... which is buttons... yet, Allen, Can, and Alberto we signed for approximately £30,000,000 between them.. Alberto was never upto it, Can has not so far shown he has anything on Shelvey and neither has Allen...

Infact, I'd rather have Shelv than all of them truth be told... but the fact is, even if the others are better than Jonjo, are they £25,000,000 better? Were they ever going to be? Is Can ever going to be miles better than Shelvey was? Is Allen?

Its not just Shelvey by the way, he's just an easy example... but how you can suggest the money hasn't been wasted is shocking.

You then point to the old guard... but this is another part of the point. What are they still doing here £200,000,000 later? Gerrard was 31 when Rodgers was brought in, that past his best and he was only going to go one way, he shouldn't be a regular now three seasons into his reign, in all honesty, this is something early on that should have been addressed, but the money was wasted on other postions, such as Aspas, Alberto, illori... Then there is Henderson, a decent squad player, but again, still a regular.

The defence has been shocking in terms of tactical play since day one, not only that he started to replace our better players at the back with inferior players. On Reina, Agger and Enrique he should have definately handled things differently, its not hindsight... it was common sense... I understand he felt slightly tied with Pepe, I understood he made a decision and with Agger its never straight forward because of his injury record despite his quality, however, we recieved buttons... From there though, last season half way through it was obvious Mignolet was a mistake, had he corrected that mistake this summer, I'd have gone with that, as I said anyone can make an error in judgement and Mignolet had a couple looking at him wondering what if... but then on Agger, he let him go, despite him not being first choice or pushing to be... yet keeps Skrtel and Johnson. Lovren was brought in, for what its worth, tactically once we get set up I think Lovren and Sahko will eventually perform some sort of half decent partnership... The Johnson thing is baffling... one I can't get my head around as to why he's still here.

I said last season, its imperrative for us to maintain our position as a steady top four side we needed a quality right back, goalkeeper and a quality centre half, if not two and a replacement for Gerrard... once Suarez was sold, a change in system was most likely going to be required also and was always going to set us back... yet Rodgers has signed players who aren't crystal clear improvements and our weakest links are still in the side.... not to mention the good signings he's made he's getting nothing out of them.

You stance on the matter really confuses me yakka... its so cut and dry its unreal.

[Boocity]

I think there is one major issue, even if he had brought in a defensive midfielder/replacement for Gerrard would he actually be playing him, he would probably be on the bench or if he did get a game played out of position because lets face it gerrard would still be the first name on the sheet. Yes he has cocked up big time on many of his buys but we have the squad we have and if we are honest we can easily put a team out that can beat the likes of WH and palace and challenge top 4 but he won't. He will persist on playing non-performing players and I reckon the more supporters or the press or ex-players say he's got it wrong the more he will continue to try to prove everyone he is right and that is what scares me. If he had any humility he would have climbed down from his perch a while ago and dropped the likes of Gerrard, Skrtel and Johnson and lets face it once Henderson is fit he will walk right back into the team no matter how poor his form is. Would like to see him try something different like:-

                                                                                              Mig (got no one else)
                                            Mani                          Lovren                    Sakho (or Kolo)                     Moreno
                                                                                           lucas (no other DM)
                                                                       Can                                                Allen
                                                                                            Coutinho
                                                                           Lallana                         Mario

I think we need to shore up the midfield to stop the defence getting under so much pressure all the time and lets get a few clean sheets to build confidence, once we get some stability then drop Allen and bring in a more attacking midfielder or move Lallana back once Sturridge is fit. Also Sterling is  suffering at the moment and needs to be dropped to get some form back same with Henderson, it should serve as a reminder that you aren't guaranteed 1st team if you're playing rubbish.