Liverpool FC Forum

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:01 pm

sgs » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:40 pm wrote:Apart from LB we have international defenders in every other position. How can the defence then be so poor as to constantly concede goals in almost every game?

We are playing with a very open and adventurous style so we are never gonna be as watertight as some of the park the bus type teams but even so our defending is bordering on the shambolic ATM.
It's the CB's I feel sorry for, they are surrounded by A) a keeper who, since Christmas, has cost us an average of a goal a game in individual errors, B) fullbacks who on current form must be the worst in the division, and C) a midfield that couldn't stop a pig getting past them in an entry.
You could pair Alan Hansen and Bobby Moore up in the center of defence but if they have got all that happening around them they would be under severe pressure.

by **sgs** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:03 pm

Its the open and adventurous style thing that gets on me especially. We had three in MF, albeit with Gerrard as anchor, and 4 attacking players and we scored five goal on the road.

And next game it seems we need an additional attacking player!

If you are going to play that many attacking players, you have got to do something else to create balance..

I mean this is not playstation!

by **Ben Patrick** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:51 pm

Great post conn. Totally agree on the 4-2-4. Rodgersdid the same away at Southampton last season and we got battered. Hopefully he will learn his lesson this time. Gerrard shouldn't be blamed at all for that yesterday. I'd have started allen an put coutinho on the bench myself.

by **Stu the Red** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:50 pm

ConnO'var » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:10 pm wrote:Seriously mate?

I cannot subscribe to the hypothesis that we lost points because of Gerrard in this match.
We dropped points because BR threw caution to the wind and played a 4-2-4 line up against a team that has a feared striker in the form of Bentecke.
How can we expect 2 men in the centre of the park to control the ebb and flow of the defensive side of the game and still create chances for the 4 men upfront?

We were over run plain and simple. When Lucas came on, we were better simply because we had another body in there. Certainly not due to any added quality that Lucas offered (and please don't get me wrong... I am not slating Lucas here). The reason we were better was simply due to the change in tactics, IMO.

BR got a little too arrogant here and honestly he should have known better with the state of our defense down the flanks. Cisshoko and whatshisname were awful. They afforded no cover to our centre halves and the midfield duo had their hands full with the opponents midfielders thereby affording them (our centre halves) even less protection.

That's how I see it.

If BR wants to play a 4-2-4, he needs to realize that we simply don't have the personnel to do it.... and certainly a 33 year old who has visibly slown down cannot be part of such a system. All in all a bad day from the gaffer.

My 2p worth at any rate.

Little bit more realistic than the rest of the ***** we're hearing.

Can't quite believe that people are blaming yesterday's loss on Gerrard... :laugh:

Rodgers team selection was a joke. Notice how Luis didn't effect the game at all as he has been doing due to the formation change too. Coutinho hardly had a kick and the shape was quite frankly a shambles. If you aren't organised you're going to be lucky to take anything from any game.

by **eds** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:22 am

Stu the Red » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:50 pm wrote:
ConnO'var » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:10 pm wrote:Seriously mate?

I cannot subscribe to the hypothesis that we lost points because of Gerrard in this match.
We dropped points because BR threw caution to the wind and played a 4-2-4 line up against a team that has a feared striker in the form of Bentecke.
How can we expect 2 men in the centre of the park to control the ebb and flow of the defensive side of the game and still create chances for the 4 men upfront?

We were over run plain and simple. When Lucas came on, we were better simply because we had another body in there. Certainly not due to any added quality that Lucas offered (and please don't get me wrong... I am not slating Lucas here). The reason we were better was simply due to the change in tactics, IMO.

BR got a little too arrogant here and honestly he should have known better with the state of our defense down the flanks. Cisshoko and whatshisname were awful. They afforded no cover to our centre halves and the midfield duo had their hands full with the opponents midfielders thereby affording them (our centre halves) even less protection.

That's how I see it.

If BR wants to play a 4-2-4, he needs to realize that we simply don't have the personnel to do it.... and certainly a 33 year old who has visibly slown down cannot be part of such a system. All in all a bad day from the gaffer.

My 2p worth at any rate.

Little bit more realistic than the rest of the ***** we're hearing.

Can't quite believe that people are blaming yesterday's loss on Gerrard...

Rodgers team selection was a joke. Notice how Luis didn't effect the game at all as he has been doing due to the formation change too. Coutinho hardly had a kick and the shape was quite frankly a shambles. If you aren't organised you're going to be lucky to take anything from any game.

I don't think many people are blaming Gerrard for the loss mate. Just questioning the value he is currently bringing to the side.

It was a poor, poor performance by the whole team and you are right Rodger's got the formation completely wrong, which led to us being 2-0 down in the 1st half.

What is very worrying is the amount of games players the likes of Johnson, Cissoko and Skrtel are getting.

This is the another main reason why we dropped points yesterday.

I would expect Rodgers and FSG to nut down and get us some proper re-inforcements for the RB and DM positions in the next week.

I will be f**king livid if we waste money bringing in attacking players and don't address the blatant holes we have in our starting XI.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:34 am

whilst I can't argue with the fact that BR got it wrong in the first half against Villa, I do find comfort in the fact he changed his set up and reacted to what was unfolding before him. That would never have happed with our previous two managers, who would have stood their like statues waiting for things to change.

BR learnt a lesson on Saturday and I don't expect him to repeat it in a hurry. However, as eds says, we desperately need a new defensive midfielder and a full back ASAP. Cissoko makes me cringe everytime he touches the f**king ball

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:55 am

So disappointed in Rodgers over the Villa game. All he had to do was play our usual system and we'd have beaten Villa.
Instead he was naive and arrogant and thought we could batter Villa by fielding an unbalanced offensive line up.

The Merseyside derby is going to be huge now! If Everton win tonight they'll be well up for the derby.

I feel this season is starting to slip away from us a bit. From top of the table at xmas and now potentially slipping outside the top 4 tonight and Spurs right on our tail. We need to win the derby.

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:29 am

[quote="[url=http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1227468#p1227468]Stu the Red » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:50 pm[/url

Rodgers team selection was a joke.[/quote]

couldn't agree more...how can any manager worth his salt think Steven Gerrard can be a defensive midfielder ... "our Pirlo" .... it was just about the most embarrassing 45 minute performance from any Liverpool player since Sean Dundee put in a appearance chasing his tail like a jack Russell.....BR is turning a Liverpool Legend into a parody.....it is painful to watch and it will only get worse

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:47 am

supersub
couldn't agree more...how can any manager worth his salt think Steven Gerrard can be a defensive midfielder ... "our Pirlo" .... it was just about the most embarrassing 45 minute performance from any Liverpool player since Sean Dundee put in a appearance chasing his tail like a jack Russell.....BR is turning a Liverpool Legend into a parody.....it is painful to watch and it will only get worse

Apparently Rodgers has said he's going to continue with this 'Gerrard in the Pirlo role' experiment on a radio city feed.
That's the end of our CL hopes then, and bye bye Luis too.
Rodgers has done a great job but the problem with having a young manager is that they get over-awed by big name players.
If Gerard and Johnson were 20 and just starting out they'd be benched for a long time over the performances they have put in, but because both are big name, high earning England internationals Rodgers won't drop them.
Looks like the Salah deal is back on as well.......yes Brendan more attackers is just what we need :glare:

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:05 am

Personally hope we never see Gerrard as DM again!

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:16 am

jacdaniel » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:05 am wrote:Personally hope we never see Gerrard as DM again!

Rodgers gave an interview with the independent yesterday as well where he said it was the shape of the team that failed not Gerrard, he's convinced Gerrard can do for Liverpool what Pirlo did for Milan and Juventus.
Welcome to Gerrard fc, why rodgers is choosing to experiment now when we are in the middle of a huge scrap for 4th is beyond me.

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:25 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:16 am wrote:
jacdaniel » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:05 am wrote:Personally hope we never see Gerrard as DM again!

Rodgers gave an interview with the independent yesterday as well where he said it was the shape of the team that failed not Gerrard, he's convinced Gerrard can do for Liverpool what Pirlo did for Milan and Juventus.
Welcome to Gerrard fc, why rodgers is choosing to experiment now when we are in the middle of a huge scrap for 4th is beyond me.

Its ridiculous, we've now conceded 5 goals when Gerrard has played in that role.

Rodgers has a system that works. It works really well. So well it got us to the top of the league at xmas. We gave both Chelsea and City really good games and we were unfortunate to lose both of them.

Since then Rodgers seems desperate to get Gerrard and Sturrdige in the team. Surely they should have to fight for their place in a side that was playing well and winning most games.

Based on the Stoke and Villa games I'm getting worried now that the season is starting to slip a bit and Rodgers is going to continue to experiment and try fit in certain players when we can't afford to.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:47 am

As I have already said I think it is 100% the system that failed us against Villa.
Gerrard was hung out to dry for me and judging by the post on here he is being made a scapegoat.
For me if we had played Lucas instead of Gerrard in that system we would have struggled just as much.
We got overran until he changed the system and got the extra body in midfield.

On whether Gerrard can play in the Pirlo role I dont know but I wouldnt write him off just yet.
He has played it twice and while we have conceded goals in these games I dont think you can lay the blame squarely at his feet.

We will see next game with Lucas out how he does with Allen and Henderson ahead of him.
The same two players that Lucas had in front of him when the midfield looked at its best away at Spurs in Gerrards absence.
If he struggles then, then the people doubting and criticising him will be within their right.
Until then I dont think it has been fair at all personally.

By the way that wont be Rodgers experimenting at a crucial time him playing him there. We dont really have a choice with Lucas being injured.

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:11 pm

I'm a negative football fan in general, I can't help thinking worst case scenario at all times.
Im having nightmares that the bitters are going to win tonight and somehow scrape a win at Anfield.
If that happens we'll have dropped from top of the league at xmas to 4 points off 4th in the space of a month.

On the other hand though, if they draw tonight and we stuff em at Anfield we could open up a gap.

Football drives me mad

Agree about Gerrard though... he was hung out to dry against Villa. Don't think he'll ever be a good DM but anyone would have struggled with our set up the other day.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:20 pm

I am going to watch Everton tonight with my girlfriends dad at one of her brothers.
All blues and I will be sitting there with them cheering on the baggies.
A draw would do us but let's hope they get beat.

On the derby I am a bit worried as well as they look a good side. But let's hope we start as fast as we can and have this season at home and shock them.
Their record at anfield is shocking but this is a new manager that will probably come to have a go. They did away at the emirates and united.
Hopefully if they do that with the attacking players we have we could hurt them but it could easily be as open as the Goodison derby was.

One thing is for sure, no two in the middle against them or they will dominate it.

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