Liverpool FC Forum

Terrible performance from him which is becoming a regularity. His passes were just Sh*t and numerous times he gave it away in dangerous positions, including one where Lukaku almost scored. He seems to do well against the smaller teams but against the better teams, he's outplayed. Ramsey outplayed him some weeks back. Barkley outplayed him today. No doubt he made 2 assists, but overall he was poor. Don't let the stats fool you.

maypaxvobiscum » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:19 pm wrote:Terrible performance from him which is becoming a regularity. His passes were just Sh*t and numerous times he gave it away in dangerous positions, including one where Lukaku almost scored. He seems to do well against the smaller teams but against the better teams, he's outplayed. Ramsey outplayed him some weeks back. Barkley outplayed him today. No doubt he made 2 assists, but overall he was poor. Don't let the stats fool you.

     

maypaxvobiscum » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:19 pm wrote:Terrible performance from him which is becoming a regularity. His passes were just Sh*t and numerous times he gave it away in dangerous positions, including one where Lukaku almost scored. He seems to do well against the smaller teams but against the better teams, he's outplayed. Ramsey outplayed him some weeks back. Barkley outplayed him today. No doubt he made 2 assists, but overall he was poor. Don't let the stats fool you.

Yes yet he provided with 2 assists, which other midfielders fail to do so on a regular basis. He wasn't the one who lost the ball completely in the middle (Henderson) that led to Lukaku scoring the 3rd Everton goal and he wasn't the one doing the awful clumsy challenge (Lucas, although Johnson has a bit of blame too) that led Lukaku scoring the 2nd equalizing goal. Yes he was poor, but to say it is becoming a regularity? I completely disagree

metalhead » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:23 am wrote:

maypaxvobiscum » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:19 pm wrote:Terrible performance from him which is becoming a regularity. His passes were just Sh*t and numerous times he gave it away in dangerous positions, including one where Lukaku almost scored. He seems to do well against the smaller teams but against the better teams, he's outplayed. Ramsey outplayed him some weeks back. Barkley outplayed him today. No doubt he made 2 assists, but overall he was poor. Don't let the stats fool you.

Yes yet he provided with 2 assists, which other midfielders fail to do so on a regular basis. He wasn't the one who lost the ball completely in the middle (Henderson) that led to Lukaku scoring the 3rd Everton goal and he wasn't the one doing the awful clumsy challenge (Lucas, although Johnson has a bit of blame too) that led Lukaku scoring the 2nd equalizing goal. Yes he was poor, but to say it is becoming a regularity? I completely disagree

when allen went off evertons midfield walked right through us time and time again, agger, skrtel and johnson had poor games but to be fair to them in the last 20 minutes they had wave after wave of everton players bearing down on them, only poor passing by everton (especially lukaku) and schmeichel-esque keeping in one on one situations by mingolet stopped that game being a rout.
we cant afford to have a midfield that you can drive a bus through in order to carry someone who crosses the ball well. defensive responsibilities are a big part of a CM`s game these days and gerrard is woeful when it comes to tracking back and marking runners.
we are having to pack our midfield with honest runners like hendo and allen just to accomodate him, so essentially we are building our midfield around someone who has scored 0 goals in open play this season, someone who cant shoot from range anymore because his muscle was hanging from his thigh bone by a thread and someone who`s assists mainly come from free kicks and corners.
our midfield just isnt good enough, building the heart of our team and our engine room around an aging great isnt going to get us anywhere, packing the side with honest runners isnt going to get us anywhere either, we need CM`s who dont need to be carried.
obviously we arent a man city or a chelsea, we cant go out in january and buy top, top names but i think you could bring in a couple of players like cabaye and diame, or even lliana and wanyama, all of whom whilst not being world beaters would certainly improve us and wouldnt cost the earth.


                                         cabaye            wanyama              diame

                                                               coutinho

                                                sturridge                 suarez

we could have easily had this midfield, especially with the money we spent this summer on the likes of aspas, alberto and llori, none of whom get anywhere near the team. we should be aiming for something like that in january.

metalhead » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:23 pm wrote:

maypaxvobiscum » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:19 pm wrote:Terrible performance from him which is becoming a regularity. His passes were just Sh*t and numerous times he gave it away in dangerous positions, including one where Lukaku almost scored. He seems to do well against the smaller teams but against the better teams, he's outplayed. Ramsey outplayed him some weeks back. Barkley outplayed him today. No doubt he made 2 assists, but overall he was poor. Don't let the stats fool you.

Yes yet he provided with 2 assists, which other midfielders fail to do so on a regular basis. He wasn't the one who lost the ball completely in the middle (Henderson) that led to Lukaku scoring the 3rd Everton goal and he wasn't the one doing the awful clumsy challenge (Lucas, although Johnson has a bit of blame too) that led Lukaku scoring the 2nd equalizing goal. Yes he was poor, but to say it is becoming a regularity? I completely disagree

Ignore maypax... he's chatting bubbles. Gerrard had a good game. To be honest, I had no complaints from the midfielders who actually played. I think Lucas and Gerrard played ok, Coutinho was out of position and so was Henderson so it caused a lack of an outlet ball which at times made us susceptable to counter attacks.

I think people need to realise that occassionally good midfielders like Barry and Barkley will get the better of our midfield. Unfortunately there is a belief, certainly from one member on here that if any midfielder is allowed to make a forward run or is even allowed a kick that Gerrard is automatically the culprit and he's rubbish etc etc etc

To be quite honest, its a bit like the Sami Hyypia situation this.

The same people were calling for Sami to be shifted when Benitez first came in saying he'd slowed down, he's not what he was... completely neglecting the fact he was playing next to Traore who he clearly didn't trust and who kept leaving him exposed. It was no coincidence that Sami's form picked up immensely when Traore was ousted and we sorted the left back spot out. All of a sudden, people were reversing their opinion and saying that when he left he could have played on for another year.

I think the same people need to realise that this is whats happening with Steven at present. He's no longer good enough to make average players look good. He needs someone in there with him who can do his own job and contribute and help make his job that little bit easier.

If we can address that problem then hopefully we'll continue to get the absolute maximum from a player who's performed above his level for years.

What rubbish. You're just a bitter failure of a person who overachieved by being an embryo to begin with. Gerrard didn't have a good game and had lots of misplaced passes. Barkley bossed the midfield.

Stu the Red

I think people need to realise that occassionally good midfielders like Barry and Barkley will get the better of our midfield. Unfortunately there is a belief, certainly from one member on here that if any midfielder is allowed to make a forward run or is even allowed a kick that Gerrard is automatically the culprit and he's rubbish etc etc etc

it`s not just `occassionally` though is it? every game bar the west brom, palace and fulham games our midfield has been second best, and they were even criticised after the palace game for letting palace have a lot of the ball in the second half when we should have been running up a cricket score.
and to that list of yours with barry and barkley on it you can add the names of  john-joe shelvey and leon brittan....carrick, giggs and cleverley....wanyama, schneiderlin and lallana....arteta, ramsey and cazorla etc etc, even cabaye and tiote were dominating us until the sending off.
of the 7 clubs challenging for the champions league places our midfield is the weakest and considering that it is the most important area of the field that doesnt bode well for us. our forwards are carrying us at the moment.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:26 pm wrote:
when allen went off evertons midfield walked right through us time and time again, agger, skrtel and johnson had poor games but to be fair to them in the last 20 minutes they had wave after wave of everton players bearing down on them, only poor passing by everton (especially lukaku) and schmeichel-esque keeping in one on one situations by mingolet stopped that game being a rout.
we cant afford to have a midfield that you can drive a bus through in order to carry someone who crosses the ball well. defensive responsibilities are a big part of a CM`s game these days and gerrard is woeful when it comes to tracking back and marking runners.
we are having to pack our midfield with honest runners like hendo and allen just to accomodate him, so essentially we are building our midfield around someone who has scored 0 goals in open play this season, someone who cant shoot from range anymore because his muscle was hanging from his thigh bone by a thread and someone who`s assists mainly come from free kicks and corners.                          

Good post mate ,I think eventually people are beginning to wake up to how much of a liability Gerrard has become ,and how our centre when he's included
is about as impenetrable as a sheet of damp Andrex .... I'd like to know if any team who share such lofty goals as Champions league football can afford to
include a player that offers no defensive cover to his back four whatsoever, and deems his inclusion in the team to be practically compulsory.

On MOTD Lampard ran practically 50 yards back to his own goal while still having the energy to exact a precision tackle..If Gerrard afforded the shirt even
one interception or a smattering of a tackle, I would never even contemplate raising these doubts about his game.....Like I said, I take no satisfaction in watching the sad dissipation of a talent that once shone so bright it blinded all who tried to emulate.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:59 pm wrote:

Stu the Red

I think people need to realise that occassionally good midfielders like Barry and Barkley will get the better of our midfield. Unfortunately there is a belief, certainly from one member on here that if any midfielder is allowed to make a forward run or is even allowed a kick that Gerrard is automatically the culprit and he's rubbish etc etc etc

it`s not just `occassionally` though is it? every game bar the west brom, palace and fulham games our midfield has been second best, and they were even criticised after the palace game for letting palace have a lot of the ball in the second half when we should have been running up a cricket score.
and to that list of yours with barry and barkley on it you can add the names of  john-joe shelvey and leon brittan....carrick, giggs and cleverley....wanyama, schneiderlin and lallana....arteta, ramsey and cazorla etc etc, even cabaye and tiote were dominating us until the sending off.
of the 7 clubs challenging for the champions league places our midfield is the weakest and considering that it is the most important area of the field that doesnt bode well for us. our forwards are carrying us at the moment.

So you think its unacceptable that Arsenal's midfield will dominate your own away? You think that at 1-0 down Man Utd won't dominate a midfield for 30 MINUTES, because that's all it was... you believe that Southampton, who are riding high in the league and give as good as they are getting have a poor midfield? If you'd watched the Swansea game, you'd again realise that they certainly didn't "dominate" the midfield... in the way you're suggesting and to suggest Cabaye and Tiote are anything other than very good midfielders is plain and utter stupidity, our midfield probably would struggle against those two as Gerrard is probably in the same class, Lucas and Henderson aren't. So yeah, I can see 100% why they could "dominate".

As for the Palace game you can talk about "domination" all you like but Gerrard scored mate and played his part in one of the goals. So you can shove your possession up your backside (which we dominated)....

You need to realise that just because Gerrard isn't the monster he was, doesn't mean he's now rubbish and useless. He's far from it, infact, so much so, I would bet my life on it, that is he was available for any other side in the league... AND I MEAN ANY OTHER SIDE... he'd be a regular starter. He's probably still Englands stand out performer for the national team... says it all for me.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:29 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:26 pm wrote:
when allen went off evertons midfield walked right through us time and time again, agger, skrtel and johnson had poor games but to be fair to them in the last 20 minutes they had wave after wave of everton players bearing down on them, only poor passing by everton (especially lukaku) and schmeichel-esque keeping in one on one situations by mingolet stopped that game being a rout.
we cant afford to have a midfield that you can drive a bus through in order to carry someone who crosses the ball well. defensive responsibilities are a big part of a CM`s game these days and gerrard is woeful when it comes to tracking back and marking runners.
we are having to pack our midfield with honest runners like hendo and allen just to accomodate him, so essentially we are building our midfield around someone who has scored 0 goals in open play this season, someone who cant shoot from range anymore because his muscle was hanging from his thigh bone by a thread and someone who`s assists mainly come from free kicks and corners.                          

Good post mate ,I think eventually people are beginning to wake up to how much of a liability Gerrard has become ,and how our centre when he's included
is about as impenetrable as a sheet of damp Andrex .... I'd like to know if any team who share such lofty goals as Champions league football can afford to
include a player that offers no defensive cover to his back four whatsoever, and deems his inclusion in the team to be practically compulsory.

On MOTD Lampard ran practically 50 yards back to his own goal while still having the energy to exact a precision tackle..If Gerrard afforded the shirt even
one interception or a smattering of a tackle, I would never even contemplate raising these doubts about his game.....Like I said, I take no satisfaction in watching the sad dissipation of a talent that once shone so bright it blinded all who tried to emulate.

A liability?        

Next you'll be saying we should drop Suarez! Really do think I've heard just about everything now.

Steven Gerrard - The liability!        

Stu I think it also should be noted that Gerrard is leading the Premiership assists table. I have struggled with Henderson since we paid best part of £20m for him. I know he has improved and he certainly contributes but in exactly the same way as Lucas he is nothing exceptional. Decent professionals yes but exceptional no. Both Henderson and Lucas work very hard but sometimes that is not enough. Suarez works as hard as anybody in the league but he also produces moments of magic that most footballers can only dream about. Beating three men and laying the ball on a plate for Allen to score (I know he missed) is something very few footballers are capable of. Lucas and Henderson unfortunately fall into that category and are in my opinion the main reason our midfield is nothing special.

Stu the Red » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:45 pm wrote:

A liability?        

Next you'll be saying we should drop Suarez! Really do think I've heard just about everything now.

Steven Gerrard - The liability!        

You can always attain the level some posters are wound up with their sometimes wanton and repetitious use of the smiley.
Its ok stu ,I can wait for you to catch up with the rest of us pacesetters ......  After all you're still running in clown shoes
where Owen is concerned,so I'm not expecting lightening reactions on Gerrards glaring deficiencies   

2nd in the league. Best start to a season for years. Decent goal difference.  And suddenly Captain Gerrard is a liability. For one with an impressive command of the English language I find your choice of word (liability) a tad disrespectful. He's not what he was but he certainly is not a liability.

Stu the Red » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:34 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:59 pm wrote:

Stu the Red

I think people need to realise that occassionally good midfielders like Barry and Barkley will get the better of our midfield. Unfortunately there is a belief, certainly from one member on here that if any midfielder is allowed to make a forward run or is even allowed a kick that Gerrard is automatically the culprit and he's rubbish etc etc etc

it`s not just `occassionally` though is it? every game bar the west brom, palace and fulham games our midfield has been second best, and they were even criticised after the palace game for letting palace have a lot of the ball in the second half when we should have been running up a cricket score.
and to that list of yours with barry and barkley on it you can add the names of  john-joe shelvey and leon brittan....carrick, giggs and cleverley....wanyama, schneiderlin and lallana....arteta, ramsey and cazorla etc etc, even cabaye and tiote were dominating us until the sending off.
of the 7 clubs challenging for the champions league places our midfield is the weakest and considering that it is the most important area of the field that doesnt bode well for us. our forwards are carrying us at the moment.

So you think its unacceptable that Arsenal's midfield will dominate your own away? You think that at 1-0 down Man Utd won't dominate a midfield for 30 MINUTES, because that's all it was... you believe that Southampton, who are riding high in the league and give as good as they are getting have a poor midfield? If you'd watched the Swansea game, you'd again realise that they certainly didn't "dominate" the midfield... in the way you're suggesting and to suggest Cabaye and Tiote are anything other than very good midfielders is plain and utter stupidity, our midfield probably would struggle against those two as Gerrard is probably in the same class, Lucas and Henderson aren't. So yeah, I can see 100% why they could "dominate".

As for the Palace game you can talk about "domination" all you like but Gerrard scored mate and played his part in one of the goals. So you can shove your possession up your backside (which we dominated)....

You need to realise that just because Gerrard isn't the monster he was, doesn't mean he's now rubbish and useless. He's far from it, infact, so much so, I would bet my life on it, that is he was available for any other side in the league... AND I MEAN ANY OTHER SIDE... he'd be a regular starter. He's probably still Englands stand out performer for the national team... says it all for me.

for a start gerrard scored a pen against palace, it was won when sterling went down easily as he ran into the box.
the first goal in that game came about when suarez exchanged passes with enrique, slipped over but still managed to score and the second was from sturridge after enrique fired a ball down the line. what was the goal that gerrard `played his part in setting up`?
and btw jordan henderson got MoM in that game.
as i said in an earlier post we have played 12 league games this season and our midfield probably was the better in 3 of them, it is obviously a problem area for us just as CB was a problem area for us last season when we had trouble dealing with target men center forwards.
we are not far from halfway through the season and not one of our center mids has scored a goal from open play yet, infact we are all criticising joe allen for his miss on saturday but to be fair to him in just an hour he came just as close to scoring as the likes of gerrard, hendo and lucas have all season.
gerrards assists are skewed by the fact he takes every corner and free kick, if someone is delivering 12+ balls into the box every game from dangerous area`s then of course their assist stats are going to be decent. he reminds me of charlie adam at blackpool or even alan ball at everton, he takes everything - free kicks, pens, corners so what do you expect?