Liverpool FC Forum

7_Kewell » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:06 pm wrote:

red till i die!! » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:38 pm wrote:rodgers dealings in the market have been less than impressive. in fact they have been poor. over 80mil on 15 players from which less than a handful have been good enough. the fact that we had literally zero competition for any of his signings is an indication of how highly rated they are.
granted he hasnt spent 20+ on any of them but he has paid over the odds. his 3 most expensive have been borini, allen and sakho and in truth you could take or leave either of them.
yes we have had a poor run of signings in the last 5-6 years due to the constant change in manager but has rodgers really been any better with the money ?. not in my book he hasnt. its all about opinion and mine is that he has sent better on loan this season than most of what he signed. its the quality of the squad he inherited that has us where we are now not his shrewdness or an eye for talent.

Difficult to argue against any of that, although I would say he has utilised the talent at his disposal in a better way that our previous two managers.

I think Sakho is a good addition and feel Allen will come good too.  However, Borini hasn't worked out and he's now stuck on the bench at Sunderland, which says it all really...

The Tea Lady would have done better than Hodgeson

red till i die!! » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:38 pm wrote:rodgers dealings in the market have been less than impressive. in fact they have been poor. over 80mil on 15 players from which less than a handful have been good enough. the fact that we had literally zero competition for any of his signings is an indication of how highly rated they are.
granted he hasnt spent 20+ on any of them but he has paid over the odds. his 3 most expensive have been borini, allen and sakho and in truth you could take or leave either of them.
yes we have had a poor run of signings in the last 5-6 years due to the constant change in manager but has rodgers really been any better with the money ?. not in my book he hasnt. its all about opinion and mine is that he has sent better on loan this season than most of what he signed. its the quality of the squad he inherited that has us where we are now not his shrewdness or an eye for talent.

Bit harsh mate.   
Sturrdige and Coutinho have both been absolutely fantastic additions.  If we had of spent 40M+ on both I think it would have been justified.
Toure has been a great addition to the squad.  Mignolet too.
Sakho is only new to the club.  Admit that he doesn't look like anything special at the minute but he deserves a bit of time.
Allen looked promising to begin with but has struggled with his shoulder and should still be given a chance this season.

Cissokho looks a bit cack but he is only in on loan.  If he fails to impress he'll go right back to were he came from.
Alberto and Llori are for the future, can't judge yet.

IMO, the only massive failures have been Borini, Assaidi and Aspas.

i think the main criticism of rodgers transfers is that not many of his purchases have become nailed on starters in the first team.
saying that coutinho and sturridge were inspired signings though, not only did they turn last season around they turned the club around.
he has said himself in a recent interview that he only wants to bring in players that improve the starting XI from now on in so maybe we`ll start to see more of our outlay actually running around on the pitch than on the bench.

jacdaniel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:06 pm wrote:

red till i die!! » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:38 pm wrote:rodgers dealings in the market have been less than impressive. in fact they have been poor. over 80mil on 15 players from which less than a handful have been good enough. the fact that we had literally zero competition for any of his signings is an indication of how highly rated they are.
granted he hasnt spent 20+ on any of them but he has paid over the odds. his 3 most expensive have been borini, allen and sakho and in truth you could take or leave either of them.
yes we have had a poor run of signings in the last 5-6 years due to the constant change in manager but has rodgers really been any better with the money ?. not in my book he hasnt. its all about opinion and mine is that he has sent better on loan this season than most of what he signed. its the quality of the squad he inherited that has us where we are now not his shrewdness or an eye for talent.

Bit harsh mate.   :D
Sturrdige and Coutinho have both been absolutely fantastic additions.  If we had of spent 40M+ on both I think it would have been justified.
Toure has been a great addition to the squad.  Mignolet too.
Sakho is only new to the club.  Admit that he doesn't look like anything special at the minute but he deserves a bit of time.
Allen looked promising to begin with but has struggled with his shoulder and should still be given a chance this season.

Cissokho looks a bit cack but he is only in on loan.  If he fails to impress he'll go right back to were he came from.
Alberto and Llori are for the future, can't judge yet.

IMO, the only massive failures have been Borini, Assaidi and Aspas.

I don't think its harsh at all to be honest.

Sturridge and Coutinho have proved good value and good signings but neither of which I would say are top draw.

Toure was a very good addition, but has he improved us? He's just basically replaced Carragher.

Mignolet is nowhere near an improvement on Reina.

The reality is he's had three transfer windows and only signed two players who are good enough to get into the team. That raises serious questions.

You've defended certain players by calling them "one for the future", but when was the last time a "one for the future" type actually became any good?

The likes of Robinson and Suso (who neither of which I believe are good enough btw) were allowed to leave on loan and replaced with what can only be described as complete and utter dross in Cissoko and Aspas.


Nearly forty five million, I repeat using numbers £45,000,000 has been completely and utterly wasted on Sahko, Borini and Allen... And you can mask it up and paper over the cracks any way you like, that is a shocking return from those three players. Allen is nowhere near good enough, Borini is at best a league 1 player and Sahko is nowhere near as good as Skrtel and Toure... let alone Agger.

For me, thats not good business. He really needs to make these next two windows count or I feel his job will be on the line!

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:07 pm wrote:i think the main criticism of rodgers transfers is that not many of his purchases have become nailed on starters in the first team.
saying that coutinho and sturridge were inspired signings though, not only did they turn last season around they turned the club around.
he has said himself in a recent interview that he only wants to bring in players that improve the starting XI from now on in so maybe we`ll start to see more of our outlay actually running around on the pitch than on the bench.

exactly.
i would also add that the success of coutinho and sturridge has lifted a lot of pressure from rodgers.
honestly though yakka, ive given up listening to what he says, he has an awful knack of repeating himself and then does the opposite.I agree 100% that established players is whats needed but i think the problem all along is that rodgers wouldnt know one if it ran up and kicked him in the balls 
he has to do much much better in the next window for me.

StuYesThatStu » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:16 pm wrote:

jacdaniel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:06 pm wrote:

red till i die!! » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:38 pm wrote:rodgers dealings in the market have been less than impressive. in fact they have been poor. over 80mil on 15 players from which less than a handful have been good enough. the fact that we had literally zero competition for any of his signings is an indication of how highly rated they are.
granted he hasnt spent 20+ on any of them but he has paid over the odds. his 3 most expensive have been borini, allen and sakho and in truth you could take or leave either of them.
yes we have had a poor run of signings in the last 5-6 years due to the constant change in manager but has rodgers really been any better with the money ?. not in my book he hasnt. its all about opinion and mine is that he has sent better on loan this season than most of what he signed. its the quality of the squad he inherited that has us where we are now not his shrewdness or an eye for talent.

Bit harsh mate.   :D
Sturrdige and Coutinho have both been absolutely fantastic additions.  If we had of spent 40M+ on both I think it would have been justified.
Toure has been a great addition to the squad.  Mignolet too.
Sakho is only new to the club.  Admit that he doesn't look like anything special at the minute but he deserves a bit of time.
Allen looked promising to begin with but has struggled with his shoulder and should still be given a chance this season.

Cissokho looks a bit cack but he is only in on loan.  If he fails to impress he'll go right back to were he came from.
Alberto and Llori are for the future, can't judge yet.

IMO, the only massive failures have been Borini, Assaidi and Aspas.

I don't think its harsh at all to be honest.

Sturridge and Coutinho have proved good value and good signings but neither of which I would say are top draw.

Toure was a very good addition, but has he improved us? He's just basically replaced Carragher.

Mignolet is nowhere near an improvement on Reina.

The reality is he's had three transfer windows and only signed two players who are good enough to get into the team. That raises serious questions.

You've defended certain players by calling them "one for the future", but when was the last time a "one for the future" type actually became any good?

The likes of Robinson and Suso (who neither of which I believe are good enough btw) were allowed to leave on loan and replaced with what can only be described as complete and utter dross in Cissoko and Aspas.


Nearly forty five million, I repeat using numbers £45,000,000 has been completely and utterly wasted on Sahko, Borini and Allen... And you can mask it up and paper over the cracks any way you like, that is a shocking return from those three players. Allen is nowhere near good enough, Borini is at best a league 1 player and Sahko is nowhere near as good as Skrtel and Toure... let alone Agger.

For me, thats not good business. He really needs to make these next two windows count or I feel his job will be on the line!

Agree on some but can't agree with many others...Suso's not good enough? Sahko nowhere near as good? Mignolet might not be a big improvement over Reina of old but he's definitely a better replacement over Reina of the past 2 seasons. btw I'll reserve judgement on Allen, Ilori and Alberto (tho I'm not holding my breath). All in, who do you think will be a better bet for the £45M given our current position of not being involved in CL? The only one that I might opt for might be Bergovic over Mignolet. Borini & Aspas I can do without!

red till i die!! » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:50 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:07 pm wrote:i think the main criticism of rodgers transfers is that not many of his purchases have become nailed on starters in the first team.
saying that coutinho and sturridge were inspired signings though, not only did they turn last season around they turned the club around.
he has said himself in a recent interview that he only wants to bring in players that improve the starting XI from now on in so maybe we`ll start to see more of our outlay actually running around on the pitch than on the bench.

exactly.
i would also add that the success of coutinho and sturridge has lifted a lot of pressure from rodgers.
honestly though yakka, ive given up listening to what he says, he has an awful knack of repeating himself and then does the opposite.I agree 100% that established players is whats needed but i think the problem all along is that rodgers wouldnt know one if it ran up and kicked him in the balls 
he has to do much much better in the next window for me.

i think he does know a good player when he see`s one mate but i think he is putting too much emphasis on building for the future, maybe he is under orders from FSG on that score but imo we are signing too much `potential `and not enough `finished product`.
when we looked a million miles away from being a competative side under hodgson and even kenny i can understand why the owners were willing to almost write off the present in order to plan for the future, back then it seemed like nothing short of a £500m windfall could turn us into a title challenging team.
but since kennys last season suarez has kicked on from being a very, very good player into a world class operator and the introduction of coutinho and sturridge has suddenly given us one of, if not the best, strike forces in the country if not europe.
a couple of marquee big name signings now (who come here and do the business a la suarez) could really see us back at the top of the tree again.
by hook or by crook brendan has managed to make us very competative again and he needs to be congratulated for that because turning around a big club thats feeling sorry for itself is like trying to turn around a supertanker but now is the acid test, a couple of poor signings now and then we miss out on 4th, suarez leaves and we are back at square one, but if he manages to pull a couple of coutinho-esque rabbits from the hat anything is possible, and i mean anything.

Santa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:18 am wrote:
Agree on some but can't agree with many others...Suso's not good enough? Sahko nowhere near as good? Mignolet might not be a big improvement over Reina of old but he's definitely a better replacement over Reina of the past 2 seasons. btw I'll reserve judgement on Allen, Ilori and Alberto (tho I'm not holding my breath). All in, who do you think will be a better bet for the £45M given our current position of not being involved in CL? The only one that I might opt for might be Bergovic over Mignolet. Borini & Aspas I can do without!

Like I said, you can mask it up anyway you like...

£45,000,000 on a striker who is at best league 1 standard, a central midfielder who while not being a "bad player" certainly isn't better than Lucas, Henderson or Gerrard and then spending £17,000,000 on a centre half who can't get anywhere near the team unless we play 3 at the back, and even then its only because of injury.

I'm sorry if that offends you and doesn't fit in with your view, but thats how it is.

Sahko is not better than Agger, Toure or Skrtel. That for me is a massive waste of £17,000,000 that could have been spent far better elsewhere. Even if, Sahko "settles" and has simply come here in a poor run of form and is yet to show us what he's really about... I still don't believe he'll be enough of an improvement on the three mentioned to warrant a £17,000,000 outlay.

i think he does know a good player when he see`s one mate but i think he is putting too much emphasis on building for the future, maybe he is under orders from FSG on that score but imo we are signing too much `potential `and not enough `finished product`.
when we looked a million miles away from being a competative side under hodgson and even kenny i can understand why the owners were willing to almost write off the present in order to plan for the future, back then it seemed like nothing short of a £500m windfall could turn us into a title challenging team.
but since kennys last season suarez has kicked on from being a very, very good player into a world class operator and the introduction of coutinho and sturridge has suddenly given us one of, if not the best, strike forces in the country if not europe.
a couple of marquee big name signings now (who come here and do the business a la suarez) could really see us back at the top of the tree again.
by hook or by crook brendan has managed to make us very competative again and he needs to be congratulated for that because turning around a big club thats feeling sorry for itself is like trying to turn around a supertanker but now is the acid test, a couple of poor signings now and then we miss out on 4th, suarez leaves and we are back at square one, but if he manages to pull a couple of coutinho-esque rabbits from the hat anything is possible, and i mean anything.

But thats a big if, espeically when so far his record is as poor (barring Sturridge, Toure, to an extenet Mignolet and Coutinho) as it is.

You're making it sound like all of a sudden we're top four material again. The reality is we finished 7th last season. We're 11/12 games games into this season and are yet to actually go anywhere and play anyone other than Arsenal. We generally do ok against the Mancs at home (which was an excellent win) so I wouldn't look at that as out of the ordinary. This season, I'm looking at Everton and Southampton's side on paper and both of those sides have enough ability to finish above us, we're all pretty even and I think that says alot. We have the wild card in Suarez, but they all have good players all over the pitch... I can see Spurs messing up and I think fifth is between these four clubs.

What I would say is we've got pretty much the return you'd expect from those fixtures, and make no mistake, they've been kind so far. I'm not trying to dis credit whats happened so far, you can only do so much and I think we've been very solid, at times impressive and at times not so. There's not really been much to complain about while we've had a couple of excellent wins. But points wise, I'm not sure we've "done brilliantly".... more of, we've done whats expected, pats on the back all round... hopefully we'll push on.

The acid test will be against the big sides, away and even at home and also how well we perform after losing a match or two on the bounce.

i still dont think he does tbh but we will see what he does in january.
had kenny or woy signed coutinho and sturridge then im sure their tenure would have resulted in better. last season was abysmal and only acceptable cos it was his first. the other two also had to compete on all fronts where as rodgers has only the league and one cup left and we are not even a 3rd of the way through the season. on that basis you would have to expect an improvement in our league form.

I agree with the poster above that stated that we are were we should be points wise.  Roughly at least.
And the fixtures haven't been too harsh on us.

But the thing is, we''ve played 11 games.  We only have 8 more games to play until we've played everyone.
3 of them are big teams
1 of them is Everton
4 are small teams

In theory we should be able to judge our position a bit better on January 1st.
If we're still 2nd in the league and saying things like "we are were we should be" at that point, then surely we've made progress and improved.

StuYesThatStu » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:00 pm wrote:
Sahko is not better than Agger, Toure or Skrtel. That for me is a massive waste of £17,000,000 that could have been spent far better elsewhere. Even if, Sahko "settles" and has simply come here in a poor run of form and is yet to show us what he's really about... I still don't believe he'll be enough of an improvement on the three mentioned to warrant a £17,000,000 outlay.

Whilst I agree that he's (so far) not looked any better than Agger, Toure or Skrtel I disagree that it's a waste of £17 million.

If Rodgers persists with his three at the back we'll need someone decent to come in if one of the more established CB's is unavailable.

Having four "tasty" CB's in the squad is not a bad thing and although the price for Sakho does seem a tad high I'm hopefully optimistic that before the seasons out he'll prove to be worth the outlay.

One of the few purchases by Rodgers that I'm happy not to question.

Keep in mind that Sakho came in in the thick of things.  He didn't get a pre season or have any time to settle and he has only played 8 games for us so far.

Plus, he is only 23 years old which is very young for a centre half.   

Lets give him a chance.

jacdaniel » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:04 pm wrote:Keep in mind that Sakho came in in the thick of things.  He didn't get a pre season or have any time to settle and he has only played 8 games for us so far.

Plus, he is only 23 years old which is very young for a centre half.   

Lets give him a chance.

Ahh the famous "give him time arguement".

Sahko, isn't better than Agger, Skrtel or Toure. Time isn't going to make him better than those three. How is it good business?

StuYesThatStu » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:38 pm wrote:

jacdaniel » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:04 pm wrote:Keep in mind that Sakho came in in the thick of things.  He didn't get a pre season or have any time to settle and he has only played 8 games for us so far.

Plus, he is only 23 years old which is very young for a centre half.   

Lets give him a chance.

Ahh the famous "give him time arguement".

Sahko, isn't better than Agger, Skrtel or Toure. Time isn't going to make him better than those three. How is it good business?

You talk about him being a waste of 17 million because he is not better than than what we have but if Agger was for sale he would go for about 17 million and Skrtel would probably go for about 12-15 million ( assuming he is playing how he is). He may be expensive but he is young (ie you can get many years of service from him) but to say a waste is a bit harsh.

StuYesThatStu » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:38 pm wrote:

jacdaniel » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:04 pm wrote:Keep in mind that Sakho came in in the thick of things.  He didn't get a pre season or have any time to settle and he has only played 8 games for us so far.

Plus, he is only 23 years old which is very young for a centre half.   

Lets give him a chance.

Ahh the famous "give him time arguement".

Sahko, isn't better than Agger, Skrtel or Toure. Time isn't going to make him better than those three. How is it good business?

I agree that Sahko isn't better than those three at the moment but I will never understand your persistence that a player cannot improve.

Skrtel is a prime example of this. He was dire at least 2 of the seasons he's been here.