Liverpool FC Forum

I find myself agreeing with Heimdall and BTN ...... ....Brendan has hardly outshone Rafa Benitez....now he may achieve a place in Kop folklore given time but I'm not convinced with monetary constraints put on him by these yankee owners he has the tenacity or pulling power of Benitez.

No way has BR outshone Rafa. Rafa's first season, finished 5th and won the CL trophy and reached the league cup final and would have won that league cup had Stevie not scored that b.loody own goal at the last minute. BR's first season, finished 7th and no trophies. BR is still not the finished article yet and is still learning and only time can tell how good he will be. At this moment, I would take Rafa back any day.

tubby » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:04 pm wrote:I like Rogers and his style of play.  But I think the owners lack of ambition will eventually cause him to leave. Much in the same way we get players who perform so good they attract attention I think Rogers will eventually get picked up by a big club... or rather a top 4 level club already in Europe.

how do you know its the owners lack of ambition ? he has spent 35 last summer, 20 in january and so far maybe another 25. by the start of the league he could spend another 30 easily so thats nigh on £100mil and its only his first year. fair enough he might have to work within certain parameters but hes not buying players he doesnt want.
he's getting his big break here and unless he actually wins something or qualifies for the CL then why on earth would any bigger club or a cl team want him, especially seen as he's never managed in the competition before.

your seeing the word 'rafa' and thinking...  2005, second in the league etc etc but I said Rafa's last season in charge, he lost the plot. Kenny was great but never going to be the future. BR is the future. he has the potential to be with us a long time and I hope he will be. my opinion though.

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:48 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:30 pm wrote:What factors can be used to show that BR has "outshone" the two previous managers ?

Why aren't you interested in the "7th place bollox" ? Can that be ignored then ? Why is it ignored for BR yet no one else - what is it that surrounds BR that appears to make him untouchable. If we stay 7th next season - is he still untouchable then ?

Over last season - Scored more goals, won more games, lost less games, finished in a higher league position with more league points.

That is called progress Benoir.

You may choose not to acknowledge it, probably due to your agenda against Rodgers, but for the majority of the rest of us we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh I see the slight move forward in terms of the league from Kenny to BR - we went from 8th to 7th in the league after spending £50mil plus. So if we finish 7th or 6th this season does BR start to be questioned then in the same way plenty questioned both our previous managers. Is moving forward one place in the league good enough progress ?

Is 6th/7th good enough for us ? Not in a million years - it was poor league finishes like that which cost both the previous managers their jobs and had people demanding their heads. If BR doesn't get into the CL in his second season then questions need to be asked if he is good enough to be our manager. BR got a free ride last season - he got the first season as a free ( not sure why ) but this season I expect to see real progress forward.

As for comments like "outshone" both Rafa and Kenny - truly laughable - it shows a massive slip in standards. We came 7th last season , dumped out of both domestic cups early and left Europe with a whimper - that is nowhere near good enough - and we as fans should demand better - another season like last season in terms of league finish and the manager isnt questioned then we have become a mid table team.

tubby » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:04 pm wrote:I like Rogers and his style of play.  But I think the owners lack of ambition will eventually cause him to leave. Much in the same way we get players who perform so good they attract attention I think Rogers will eventually get picked up by a big club... or rather a top 4 level club already in Europe.

In what way do you mean the owners lack of ambition ?

By selecting BR as manager I do agree.

And BR won't be touched by a Top 4 club unless he produces results - remember his track record doesn't stand out.

like I said, twice, my opinion. thats all.

Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:33 pm wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:48 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:30 pm wrote:What factors can be used to show that BR has "outshone" the two previous managers ?

Why aren't you interested in the "7th place bollox" ? Can that be ignored then ? Why is it ignored for BR yet no one else - what is it that surrounds BR that appears to make him untouchable. If we stay 7th next season - is he still untouchable then ?

Over last season - Scored more goals, won more games, lost less games, finished in a higher league position with more league points.

That is called progress Benoir.

You may choose not to acknowledge it, probably due to your agenda against Rodgers, but for the majority of the rest of us we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh I see the slight move forward in terms of the league from Kenny to BR - we went from 8th to 7th in the league after spending £50mil plus. So if we finish 7th or 6th this season does BR start to be questioned then in the same way plenty questioned both our previous managers. Is moving forward one place in the league good enough progress ?

If BR doesn't get into the CL in his second season then questions need to be asked if he is good enough to be our manager. BR got a free ride last season - he got the first season as a free ( not sure why ) but this season I expect to see real progress forward.

As for comments like "outshone" both Rafa and Kenny - truly laughable - it shows a massive slip in standards. .

I agree with all you have said here Benjamin.  Rodgers never outshone Rafa thats a ludicrous statement to make but he did say it was his opinion.

Rodgers knows that this season will need to go better than last. He got the last season as a free because it was his first and the football was good.

We was very unlucky not to go through in Europe TBH going out on away goals is harsh

As things stand, Rodgers is an average manager who -predictably- failed to deliver in his first season. His moves in the transfer market so far this summer don't fill me withconfidenc and if we lose Suarez and continue to buy the calibre of players we seem to be going after then I can see Rodgers' second season being worse than his first.

aCe' » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:23 pm wrote:As things stand, Rodgers is an average manager who -predictably- failed to deliver in his first season. His moves in the transfer market so far this summer don't fill me withconfidenc and if we lose Suarez and continue to buy the calibre of players we seem to be going after then I can see Rodgers' second season being worse than his first.

100% agree

Luckily enough for Shankly the internet or these doom mongers weren't around in '59 or we'd had never been promoted 

red till i die!! » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:04 pm wrote:

tubby » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:04 pm wrote:I like Rogers and his style of play.  But I think the owners lack of ambition will eventually cause him to leave. Much in the same way we get players who perform so good they attract attention I think Rogers will eventually get picked up by a big club... or rather a top 4 level club already in Europe.

how do you know its the owners lack of ambition ? he has spent 35 last summer, 20 in january and so far maybe another 25. by the start of the league he could spend another 30 easily so thats nigh on £100mil and its only his first year. fair enough he might have to work within certain parameters but hes not buying players he doesnt want.
he's getting his big break here and unless he actually wins something or qualifies for the CL then why on earth would any bigger club or a cl team want him, especially seen as he's never managed in the competition before.

After Kenny tried to do a 'Blackburn' I think the owners tightened their purse strings somewhat. You look at what we have spent and a fair bit goes under net spend. Factor in the reducing of the wage bill and it becomes apparent LFC are the Arsenal of the North. Our owners are prudent business men, not some royal sheik sitting on billions from black gold. Ergo, when it comes to the ambition of the club, naturally some will question the ambition or perceived lack of ambition. Another reason IMO Rodgers was chosen to do the job and I think he's already getting much unwarranted stick because of it.

You can't compare the Liverpool in 2005 with the Liverpool in 2013. It's no good saying Brendan didn't do as well as Rafa in his first season as so many things have changed, within our club and outside. Let's not forget our club almost went down the pan with H&G in charge and we're still trying to stabalise the club and get us on a firm financial foundation. We've had to get the wages down and the revenue up before we can start making progress on the field and it will take time to do it properly.

Rafa did really well until the H&G effect kicked in and we were lucky to survice. FSG have spent money but they're also doing it wisley, they've put Brendan in charge and they're building a good management team around him. If we had a full squad from the start of last season we could have arguably even broken into the top four last season.

This season there are no excuses except that every other team with be stronger and more organised, we need to be competetive from the start and believe we can win every match. If we can start next season with the right balance in the squad, settle into a rhythm, we could do well. It's difficult to compete with the 2 or 3 clubs that spend the big money but we need to get right in amongst them and put in a serious challenge. It's no good thinking we're aiming for top four, privately the squad have got to believe they can win the league. In public they need to take it one game at a time and try to win the next game.

I love Rafa but I believe in Brendan and I think he's the man to take us forward.

Basil » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:49 pm wrote:You can't compare the Liverpool in 2005 with the Liverpool in 2013. It's no good saying Brendan didn't do as well as Rafa in his first season as so many things have changed, within our club and outside.

Agreed.

Let's not forget our club almost went down the pan with H&G in charge

You'll find one poster who disagrees with this piece of common knowledge --------> Benny, according to him we were never going down the pan. 

and we're still trying to stabalise the club and get us on a firm financial foundation. We've had to get the wages down and the revenue up before we can start making progress on the field and it will take time to do it properly.

I begrudgingly understand this even though imminent success and money would be preferred.

Rafa did really well until the H&G effect kicked in and we were lucky to survice.

Agree with these sentiments. Although Rafa had his own faults which frustrated on a footballing level, I suppose paled into insignificance after H&G arrived.

FSG have spent money but they're also doing it wisley, they've put Brendan in charge and they're building a good management team around him. If we had a full squad from the start of last season we could have arguably even broken into the top four last season.

I don't think they spent wisely when Comolli and Kenny were here - truth be told they weren't to know. I think it's a case of them being once bitten twice shy and very cautious now when spending 30 odd million on one player. Going by Rodgers' comments though he believes he can strengthen the team now this summer with one or two signings "we can afford"- time will tell.

This season there are no excuses except that every other team with be stronger and more organised, we need to be competetive from the start and believe we can win every match. If we can start next season with the right balance in the squad, settle into a rhythm, we could do well. It's difficult to compete with the 2 or 3 clubs that spend the big money but we need to get right in amongst them and put in a serious challenge. It's no good thinking we're aiming for top four, privately the squad have got to believe they can win the league. In public they need to take it one game at a time and try to win the next game.

Well said.

I don't know for certain (of course) whether BR is the man to take us forward but unlike others I'll certainly give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance to have a go at it.

Kenny Kan » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:22 pm wrote:Luckily enough for Shankly the internet or these doom mongers weren't around in '59 or we'd had never been promoted 

it took shankly 2 seasons to get us out of the second division and the only reason we got promoted was that shankly (with the help of eric sawyer) convinced the board that they had to spend big if they wanted success.
we splashed out big money on ian st john and ron yeats and the club never looked back.

re rodgers, he is very a good coach, some of the stuff we played last season was the best footy i`ve seen out of a liverpool side since kennys first spell.
i`m sure brendan would rather be signing big name players himself but he`s obviously working under a lot of constraints. whoever we bring in is going to be working under the same tight budget etc so we may as well have an expansive manager in charge than a negative one.
dont get me wrong i`m as pI$$ed off as anyone about our transfer targets (no way are we acting like a club making a genuine effort to get into the top 4) but thats not solely down to rodgers, we have a committee with about 10 fella`s on it who oversee our transfers.
i think after the way we finished last season we had a great opportunity to put together a really good side this summer but we have totally f##ked it up, instead of signing players that would strengthen the starting XI we have faffed around signing squad fodder.
btw to compare rodgers to a manager that got us to 2 CL finals in 3 seasons beating the likes of barcelona, real madrid, chelsea, juventus, AC milan, inter milan, arsenal, marseilles etc etc along the way is ludicrous.