Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kenny Kan** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:01 am

I think some are too quick to moan and whinge about Rodgers while others are equally too quick to be uber positive in light of our results.

Middle-ground for me, airing on the positive side of the spectrum.

Nobody can expect Rodgers to come in and transform things within the blink of an eye. He needs patience and time from fans to get things going and he also needs this from the owners as well as financial clout. He was, IMO, hung out to dry by 'easy rider & FSG' this summer - as if his task wasn't hard enough. Dalglish's poor buys also litter the squad and I can't help but feel what the outcome would have been if Rodgers had 100 odd million to spend on players like Kenny had.

He's pretty much got to turn our draws into wins, not an easy feat when we can only rely on one player to get us goals. For me, if he continues to persist with his philosophy (even though I'm doubting now we have the players to play this system to it's max potential), he MUST order the players to pick up the tempo of their passing game. If they don't, can't go through the gears and flux the tempo with the possession game then in short we'll be f.ucked. Teams, will happily sit deep, allow us possession in our own half and stroke the ball around at an 'Italian' pace - this is fine but this has to be coupled with intense, fast pace possession football that actually seeks to harm the oppo rather than boring them.

It doesn't feel that we're that far off with it all coming together (although January is far enough away as a transfer or two go), in an attacking sense. We're 13th at the mo and many on here seem to be having kittens with the positioning but if you actually look at the table we're only a run of wins away from being back into the mix. So, panicking isn't an option for me, considering the blokes new in the job, transitioning is happening, it is what it is.

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:30 am

Kenny Kan » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:35 am wrote:Time for Liverpool to start winning

Rodgers has spent much of his time praising Liverpool's players for their efforts this season and not enough time discussing victories. It is hard to paint a pretty picture of a league start that currently only contains wins over Norwich City and Reading but he tried nonetheless.

And if he was to take a backward glance over his shoulder he would see that the current Premier League placing of 13th with 12 points from 11 games is three points worse than the same position under Roy Hodgson in 2010/2011 as he was on the road to effectively being run out of town by disaffected Liverpool supporters.

No-one would suggest for a moment that a similar fate will befall Rodgers. He is barely through the door and admitted Liverpool fans had been "lenient". There is genuine support for him from Liverpool's followers.

This must not disguise another reality. This points tally is not good enough for a club of Liverpool's ambition, even if Rodgers appeared to be scaling this back at Stamford Bridge. Eventually Rodgers must start winning.

Much has been made of his passing "philosophy" - although anyone could tell you this has been in the club's DNA since Bill Shankly arrived in December 1959 and not something Rodgers brought in the boot of his car as some great secret on the journey up from Swansea - and the only philosophy that actually matters is the one that wins matches.

Rodgers insists signs of development can be seen in Liverpool's side and he has a point. He is working with a squad in reduced circumstances and despite this they have proved difficult to beat. Their last two away league fixtures have brought creditable draws at Everton and on Sunday at Chelsea. Few will pick up even single points easily at either place this season.

Rodgers was also on the mark to underscore Liverpool's "great character, resilience and survival instincts" but eventually there must be more than possession coupled with a reliance on the cunning and brilliance of striker Luis Suarez. This is his top priority.

He can be well pleased with the eventual outcome at Stamford Bridge after Suarez - who else? - scored the goal to earn a draw that looked most unlikely for more than an hour. Liverpool, so poor for the first 45 minutes, even ended the game emboldened and looking for a fourth successive win at Chelsea.

Rodgers was in candid mood as he said: "The reality is we are a long way off winning the league. I'm not going to sit here and say we are up there challenging."

He added: "The club has given me brilliant support since I have come in here. The owners have brought me in and given me great security in terms of the plan going forward."

The task facing Rodgers is turning draws into victories - but for now he is very grateful to have a player of Suarez's class to turn potential defeats into draws, as he has done in the last week against Newcastle United and Chelsea.

Rodgers has shown a commendable desire to inject young blood into Liverpool's side and there is no doubt he received the rough end of the deal in August when the Anfield hierarchy showed no appetite for his desire to buy Clint Dempsey from Fulham and left him desperately short of a striker after Andy Carroll was loaned to West Ham.

But his own buy, Fabio Borini, was looking decidedly underwhelming at a reported £11m before injury, so Rodgers will need to spend wisely in January. "You need materials," said Rodgers. "Hopefully we can add one or two in January to help us in the top half of the field to try and turn draws into wins."

Much depends on his success in that period but for now he can take a measure of satisfaction from a draw at Chelsea, although this should be tempered by the knowledge that if Oscar and Juan Mata had matched finishing to the expertise of their approach play this game might have been over inside an hour.

John Terry gave Chelsea the lead before going off on a stretcher with a knee injury following an accidental collision with Suarez, who was once more Liverpool's talisman with the equaliser, albeit courtesy of a less-than-subtle shove on Ramires that was missed by referee Howard Webb.

Liverpool had stand-out performers in defender Jose Enrique and goalkeeper Brad Jones but in reality - that word again - it was Suarez alone who won them a point.
Rodgers is in the first flush of his infant Liverpool reign and no-one can carp at a point gained at Stamford Bridge but he must soon find the winning habit.

Or what?

by **Kenny Kan** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:55 am

I don't fecking know, I didn't write the article.

by **redalltheway36** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:19 pm

lol just seen on tele were being linked to 6ft 8 traore. Now that if true would be laughable and start a new andy carroll war.

by **Boxscarf** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:20 pm

redalltheway36 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:19 pm wrote:lol just seen on tele were being linked to 6ft 8 traore. Now that if true would be laughable and start a new andy carroll war.

Except the difference between Lacina Traore and Andy Carroll is that so far this season Traore has scored 12 goals to Carroll's 0 goals.

by **laza** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:44 pm

Boxscarf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:20 pm wrote:
redalltheway36 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:19 pm wrote:lol just seen on tele were being linked to 6ft 8 traore. Now that if true would be laughable and start a new andy carroll war.

Except the difference between Lacina Traore and Andy Carroll is that so far this season Traore has scored 12 goals to Carroll's 0 goals.

That would make it a pretty short war

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:42 pm

Kenny Kan » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:55 am wrote:I don't fecking know, I didn't write the article.

Well find out!
:glare:

by **redno7** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:02 pm

Boxscarf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:20 pm wrote:
redalltheway36 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:19 pm wrote:lol just seen on tele were being linked to 6ft 8 traore. Now that if true would be laughable and start a new andy carroll war.

Except the difference between Lacina Traore and Andy Carroll is that so far this season Traore has scored 12 goals to Carroll's 0 goals.

yep. thats quite a difference. Is that playing in a team that plays the style we do though?

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:49 pm

Kenny Kan » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:35 am wrote:Time for Liverpool to start winning

Rodgers has spent much of his time praising Liverpool's players for their efforts this season and not enough time discussing victories. It is hard to paint a pretty picture of a league start that currently only contains wins over Norwich City and Reading but he tried nonetheless.

And if he was to take a backward glance over his shoulder he would see that the current Premier League placing of 13th with 12 points from 11 games is three points worse than the same position under Roy Hodgson in 2010/2011 as he was on the road to effectively being run out of town by disaffected Liverpool supporters.

No-one would suggest for a moment that a similar fate will befall Rodgers. He is barely through the door and admitted Liverpool fans had been "lenient". There is genuine support for him from Liverpool's followers.

This must not disguise another reality. This points tally is not good enough for a club of Liverpool's ambition, even if Rodgers appeared to be scaling this back at Stamford Bridge. Eventually Rodgers must start winning.

Much has been made of his passing "philosophy" - although anyone could tell you this has been in the club's DNA since Bill Shankly arrived in December 1959 and not something Rodgers brought in the boot of his car as some great secret on the journey up from Swansea - and the only philosophy that actually matters is the one that wins matches.

Rodgers insists signs of development can be seen in Liverpool's side and he has a point. He is working with a squad in reduced circumstances and despite this they have proved difficult to beat. Their last two away league fixtures have brought creditable draws at Everton and on Sunday at Chelsea. Few will pick up even single points easily at either place this season.

Rodgers was also on the mark to underscore Liverpool's "great character, resilience and survival instincts" but eventually there must be more than possession coupled with a reliance on the cunning and brilliance of striker Luis Suarez. This is his top priority.

He can be well pleased with the eventual outcome at Stamford Bridge after Suarez - who else? - scored the goal to earn a draw that looked most unlikely for more than an hour. Liverpool, so poor for the first 45 minutes, even ended the game emboldened and looking for a fourth successive win at Chelsea.

Rodgers was in candid mood as he said: "The reality is we are a long way off winning the league. I'm not going to sit here and say we are up there challenging."

He added: "The club has given me brilliant support since I have come in here. The owners have brought me in and given me great security in terms of the plan going forward."

The task facing Rodgers is turning draws into victories - but for now he is very grateful to have a player of Suarez's class to turn potential defeats into draws, as he has done in the last week against Newcastle United and Chelsea.

Rodgers has shown a commendable desire to inject young blood into Liverpool's side and there is no doubt he received the rough end of the deal in August when the Anfield hierarchy showed no appetite for his desire to buy Clint Dempsey from Fulham and left him desperately short of a striker after Andy Carroll was loaned to West Ham.

But his own buy, Fabio Borini, was looking decidedly underwhelming at a reported £11m before injury, so Rodgers will need to spend wisely in January. "You need materials," said Rodgers. "Hopefully we can add one or two in January to help us in the top half of the field to try and turn draws into wins."

Much depends on his success in that period but for now he can take a measure of satisfaction from a draw at Chelsea, although this should be tempered by the knowledge that if Oscar and Juan Mata had matched finishing to the expertise of their approach play this game might have been over inside an hour.

John Terry gave Chelsea the lead before going off on a stretcher with a knee injury following an accidental collision with Suarez, who was once more Liverpool's talisman with the equaliser, albeit courtesy of a less-than-subtle shove on Ramires that was missed by referee Howard Webb.

Liverpool had stand-out performers in defender Jose Enrique and goalkeeper Brad Jones but in reality - that word again - it was Suarez alone who won them a point.
Rodgers is in the first flush of his infant Liverpool reign and no-one can carp at a point gained at Stamford Bridge but he must soon find the winning habit.

I might be wrong mate ,but that has the unmistakeable whiff of the increasingly irritating Phil McNulty ... Who has for some strange reason suddenly decided
to alienate more than a handful of reds supporters with his sudden malcontent ,he's almost becoming "Bascombish " with his ridiculous blogs .

I wont even attempt to dissect its content ,its as lame as something posted on LiverpoolKop by Kanwar ,another blogger with this all consuming need to have
his ill-considered opinions universally heard .

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:04 pm

I say "or what?" because it is a stupid statement to make: "Time for Liverpool to start winning", as if there will be a disastrous consequence if we dont.
LFC will endure, Rodgers will remain and we will climb up the table. This author would have us believe that Rodgers will be sacked if results dont come soon. Which is bo'llocks, as we are in transition and it takes time. Fans have to accept that things are not going to get better overnight (which I think many have) and even if we dont finish in the top half of the table Rodgers is going nowhere. Statements like this add to the drama and crank up the pressure, getting people excited and worrying what will happen if we dont suddenly go on a ten match winning run.
Nothing to see here, move along...
:nod

by **redalltheway36** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:16 pm

redno7 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:02 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:20 pm wrote:
redalltheway36 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:19 pm wrote:lol just seen on tele were being linked to 6ft 8 traore. Now that if true would be laughable and start a new andy carroll war.

Except the difference between Lacina Traore and Andy Carroll is that so far this season Traore has scored 12 goals to Carroll's 0 goals.

yep. thats quite a difference. Is that playing in a team that plays the style we do though?

Or maybe brendans realising having a team of midgets upfront isnt working so maybe a change of philosophy.

by **red till i die!!** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:37 pm

Boxscarf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:20 pm wrote:
redalltheway36 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:19 pm wrote:lol just seen on tele were being linked to 6ft 8 traore. Now that if true would be laughable and start a new andy carroll war.

Except the difference between Lacina Traore and Andy Carroll is that so far this season Traore has scored 12 goals to Carroll's 0 goals.

fairly sure he has only 10 goals this season, 7 in the russian league and 3 in the europa. worth mentioning though that the russian league is probably on a par with league 2.
as we learned with andy that this type of player isnt what rodgers wants and would be a further waste of money if he was signed. he wont cost any less than 20mil seen as he only signed for anji at a cost of 18mil and is penned there till 2016. to throw a 35mil beanpole striker on the scrapheap and then spend 20+ on replacing him with the same is just pure comedy.

by **Kenny Kan** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:55 pm

I might be wrong mate ,but that has the unmistakeable whiff of the increasingly irritating Phil McNulty ... Who has for some strange reason suddenly decided
to alienate more than a handful of reds supporters with his sudden malcontent ,he's almost becoming "Bascombish " with his ridiculous blogs .

I think you're right RBG about the author's name. I have no idea who he is tbh. But some of the stuff like 'passing being in Liverpool's DNA' I thought was good. In fact after re-reading it again I don't think it's that bad or far off the mark tbh, if there is an agenda there, I'm sorry but I've missed it (sincerely).

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:43 am

Kenny Kan » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:55 pm wrote:
I might be wrong mate ,but that has the unmistakeable whiff of the increasingly irritating Phil McNulty ... Who has for some strange reason suddenly decided
to alienate more than a handful of reds supporters with his sudden malcontent ,he's almost becoming "Bascombish " with his ridiculous blogs .

I think you're right RBG about the author's name. I have no idea who he is tbh. But some of the stuff like 'passing being in Liverpool's DNA' I thought was good. In fact after re-reading it again I don't think it's that bad or far off the mark tbh, if there is an agenda there, I'm sorry but I've missed it (sincerely).

I don't hold with these conspiracy theories either mate ,and I cant argue with the one touch passing being part and parcel of this club down through the years
but I think its decidedly easy to take a pot shot at the reds lately, and there is a seemingly perpetual queue of pundits and media hacks only to willing to do
precisely that .

Its certainly not churlish of me to expect considerably more from a fella that writes for the Echo ,anyway the DNA remark would be less credible if the reds
had been playing this way without veering off on a tangent and attempting to mix it up ....Rodgers has come in and resurrected this style of play he firmly
believes that if you have 11 players equally adept and comfortable with the ball at their feet then success will eventually ensue .

I don't see any agenda either mate ,I just think the timing of his piece stinks ,and has come at a time when fans circling the wagons around Anfield is no
longer a given ,you only have to read this forum to see how a posters lack of faith in the manager can spread like the fucking Ebola virus to those
more easily shaped by the pessimistic opinions of those bereft of patience .

by **Kenny Kan** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:52 am

I don't see any agenda either mate ,I just think the timing of his piece stinks ,and has come at a time when fans circling the wagons around Anfield is no
longer a given ,you only have to read this forum to see how a posters lack of faith in the manager can spread like the f*cking Ebola virus to those
more easily shaped by the pessimistic opinions of those bereft of patience .

Well said RBG.

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