Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:14 am

Just to go on a slight tangent...

Fans were very critical of the owners this summer for reportedly refusing to meet the wage demands of Sigurdsson and for reportedly refusing to meet the transfer fee for Dempsey.

Obviously it's early in both players' careers at Spurs but neither has set the world alight. Dempsey looks a shadow of the player he was last season and Sigurdsson struggles to get in the team.

Were the owners therefore justified in their valuation of these players' abilities? Or still too early to say? What does it say about Rodgers' judgemen of players? Or are there too many variables? Maybe both players would perform better under Rodgers than AVB, who knows.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:19 am

john craig » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:14 am wrote:Just to go on a slight tangent...

Fans were very critical of the owners this summer for reportedly refusing to meet the wage demands of Sigurdsson and for reportedly refusing to meet the transfer fee for Dempsey.

Obviously it's early in both players' careers at Spurs but neither has set the world alight. Dempsey looks a shadow of the player he was last season and Sigurdsson struggles to get in the team.

Were the owners therefore justified in their valuation of these players' abilities? Or still too early to say? What does it say about Rodgers' judgemen of players? Or are there too many variables? Maybe both players would perform better under Rodgers than AVB, who knows.

Good point, I've noticed that also.

The club got loads of flack over the Dempsey deal, but so far they've been proved right - he looks like a £4M player not £6M.

by **heimdall** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:08 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:09 pm wrote:
heimdall

Yes but one of Carroll's weaknesses was constantly being in the wrong place at the wrong time! He is NOT a good striker and never will be. All you guys thinking that if he was with us now we'd be scoring for fun are delusional, do you not remember how fecking awfull he was for us last season??
In Jan we'l bring in a good striker, I'm sure of that and then we'll start climbing the table rapidly. I am seeing improvement all the time but the next step is to get everyone in the midfield scoring more goals and it sounds like Brendan is well aware of that and I hope it's something that's being worked on.

he wasnt awful for us last season, he finished the season as probably our best player!
i agree that carroll is never probably going to be a 30 goals a season man because as you say he doesnt have that goal poachers instinct but that doesnt mean he cant be an important player for us. last season a lot of his best games were games he didnt score in like that F.A cup game against united, the derby at anfield and the chelsea game at anfield when john terry described him as unplayable.
carroll may not score 30 in a season but he`d weigh in with 10-15 goals, probably a similar amount of assists and give defenders all the trouble that they could handle.
i think our strikers need a carroll up front, i think the likes of borini would much rather have carroll in the centre of our attack than suarez, suarez is great but he`s a selfish player.
our attack is playing like a collection of 3 individuals and not a unit, carrolls natural game is to hold the ball up in heavy traffic and to lay it off, he doesnt want to try and take the world on on his own like luis. i honestly believe the likes of suarez, sterling and borini would score more goals working off carrolls knock downs, flicks on`s etc than they would by trying to work together.
we need a presense up front, we are too lightweight at the moment.
hand on heart which attack do you think would cause defences more trouble -

sterling suarez suso or sterling carroll suarez

Best player last season, Carroll, you must be kidding me mate, not even at the end of the season. Anyway given those two line ups I would go with Sterling, Suarez and Suso every time. I agree Carroll could be an option but you can't have a £35 million bench warmer.

by **heimdall** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:14 pm

john craig » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:14 am wrote:Just to go on a slight tangent...

Fans were very critical of the owners this summer for reportedly refusing to meet the wage demands of Sigurdsson and for reportedly refusing to meet the transfer fee for Dempsey.

Obviously it's early in both players' careers at Spurs but neither has set the world alight. Dempsey looks a shadow of the player he was last season and Sigurdsson struggles to get in the team.

Were the owners therefore justified in their valuation of these players' abilities? Or still too early to say? What does it say about Rodgers' judgemen of players? Or are there too many variables? Maybe both players would perform better under Rodgers than AVB, who knows.

i think it says more about how ***** AVB is as a manager.

by **redalltheway36** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:38 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:44 am wrote:
The Raven » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:50 am wrote:
LFC1990 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:36 am wrote:Wow this forum changes quick. After the Everton game we was all praising Brendan now after he fielded a weakened side against Swansea in the cup were back to slagging the man off.

Some people are bringing Andy Carroll into it.

Guys either support the man on all his descions right or wrong or dont support him at all

DONT BE STUPID

Did you even read the posts? BR came out and said we lost as we only have one striker.......which is his fault. hence the stick he is getting and why carroll is brought into it.
Disagree totally. Brendan royally fecked the carroll saga up. Yes the board didnt help him afterwards maybe cos of the wasted 100 million they lost the previous season. But please dont try and pass the buck on Ayre on anyone else.
blind faith? lol yeah support everything he does not matter how mad? you do that fir uncle roy did you?

You and your chumps are the ones being stupid mate.

Despite the fact that Rodgers did not see a future for Carroll, he also said after the transfer window debacle that if he had known all pursuits of other striker were to fail that he would not have let Andy Carroll leave.

The Carroll cock-up was not Rodgers fault, it was a LFC board problem which in my opinion firmly falls on the local management. Ian Ayres.

Rodgers will keep making reference to the fact he only has one striker because that is the situation he has been dealt with, through no fault of his own. He got shafted.

by **redalltheway36** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:44 pm

Absolute Dogs trollope southcostshankly what planet are you living on?

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:05 pm

redalltheway36 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:44 am wrote:Absolute Dogs trollope southcostshankly what planet are you living on?

You're entitled to an opinion but it is based on nothing convincing. I base my opinion however on the evidence.

BBC interview with Rodgers

Rodgers revealed he had been "very confident" of signing a replacement for Carroll. When asked if he would have sanctioned the move otherwise, he said: "No."

Based on the above it is clear to me that Rodgers did not create this squad problem. He provided the local team with targets and players he wanted to sell and generate cash on (Carroll). However once those requests were made it is up to Ian Ayres and the local team to execute. As Rodgers rightly stated - if he had any doubts that he couldn't replace Carroll he would not have loaned him. The quote is right there for you to read in detail.

J W Henry - Open letter to fans in september

I am as disappointed as anyone connected with Liverpool Football Club that we were unable to add further to our strike force in this summer transfer window, but that was not through any lack of desire or effort on the part of all of those involved.

J W Henry, telegraph in September

It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership.

The owners admit making mistakes, their mistakes not Rodgers. I accept that the above quote will include the money Comolli unwisely spent but it also includes the last failed transfer window. You cannot blame Rodgers for making transfer requests to his management team and that team not executing requests.

by **The Raven** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:46 pm

So its all the boards fault? None of the blame should be put on BR?

He had all summer to sort the issue out and both him and LFC left it to the last day to sort it out. When option 1 failed it was to late to fix. I dont agree with him sending Carroll out without even giving him a chance. However i dont want his excuses after the fact.

Blame the board all you want he knew what was happeing and should have spoke up.

by **redno7** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:26 pm

Raven, with all respect, you and some others on here do have an 'agenda' against Rodgers so any opportunity you can you stick the boot in.

by **The Raven** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:28 pm

redno7 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:26 pm wrote:Raven, with all respect, you and some others on here do have an 'agenda' against Rodgers so any opportunity you can you stick the boot in.

I dont have an agenda at all.

I dont buy that he can do no wrong, and anything that might go badly is all the boards fault or the players ect. He talks to the press to much IMO he treated Carroll really badly, and the thing with downing was also awful.

We have also been very hit and miss this season.

That said he is very young with no experance of being in charge of a big club, so i expect mistakes to be made. However i dont accept that he makes the mistakes refuses to accept he made them, then uses them as an excuse.

He gets treated the same as every manager before him. I will be dammed if i going to be a sheep that will stand by everything he ever does because of his job title.

On the plus side.

He is not afraid to throw in the younger players, Would RS be signing a new contract if he wasnt getting game time?
Allen is a class player.
He trys to play football.
He has a clear way forward

by **redalltheway36** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:34 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:05 pm wrote:
redalltheway36 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:44 am wrote:Absolute Dogs trollope southcostshankly what planet are you living on?

You're entitled to an opinion but it is based on nothing convincing. I base my opinion however on the evidence.

BBC interview with Rodgers
Rodgers revealed he had been "very confident" of signing a replacement for Carroll. When asked if he would have sanctioned the move otherwise, he said: "No."

Based on the above it is clear to me that Rodgers did not create this squad problem. He provided the local team with targets and players he wanted to sell and generate cash on (Carroll). However once those requests were made it is up to Ian Ayres and the local team to execute. As Rodgers rightly stated - if he had any doubts that he couldn't replace Carroll he would not have loaned him. The quote is right there for you to read in detail.

J W Henry - Open letter to fans in september
I am as disappointed as anyone connected with Liverpool Football Club that we were unable to add further to our strike force in this summer transfer window, but that was not through any lack of desire or effort on the part of all of those involved.

J W Henry, telegraph in September
It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership.

The owners admit making mistakes, their mistakes not Rodgers. I accept that the above quote will include the money Comolli unwisely spent but it also includes the last failed transfer window. You cannot blame Rodgers for making transfer requests to his management team and that team not executing requests.

He should not of said. I wouldnt be against Andy going out on loan. It was right at the beginning. I actually cringed and nearly choked on my tea when he came out with that. I knew right there and then it would cause caos.

by **the lone wolf** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:56 pm

What's done is DONE.
January will be here before we know it. If we're in a good league position by the GREAT! If not, move on...
Personally, i've lost too much sleep over what I can not affect.

by **Penguins** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:12 am

For every season that goes by the emphasis on what makes the biggest effect on the team is shifting from the manager to the owners.

30 years ago you could win with a great manager even if the owners weren't the best. As long as they gave some money and signed some checks the manager
got the freedom to mould his team and the financial playing field were also closer then it is today.
Now if you have a great manager, not saying Rodgers is one, it will not be att such a decisive factor if the owners are weak and unambitious.
The owners nowadays have much more control over everything going on at a fotball club and isn't just signing checks. The manager gets let power and freedom and is much more dependant on
the owners to be ambitious and making the right decisions. And you don't have to have a great manager to win things anymore if the owners are strong, ambitious and rich.

The only 2 clubs that have made any real imprint on the big titles the last 15 years are Chelski and Man City, no one else. (Well, we had one crazy year there)
What does those 2 teams have in common? They got super rich and ambitious owners who wanted to win at any price. And that is what it took to wrestle with Manure and Arsenal.
No other team has even come close.(well, we had one exception there)

by **Kenny Kan** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:13 am

john craig » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:14 am wrote:Just to go on a slight tangent...

Fans were very critical of the owners this summer for reportedly refusing to meet the wage demands of Sigurdsson and for reportedly refusing to meet the transfer fee for Dempsey.

Obviously it's early in both players' careers at Spurs but neither has set the world alight. Dempsey looks a shadow of the player he was last season and Sigurdsson struggles to get in the team.

Were the owners therefore justified in their valuation of these players' abilities? Or still too early to say? What does it say about Rodgers' judgemen of players? Or are there too many variables? Maybe both players would perform better under Rodgers than AVB, who knows.

I maybe wrong here but I think both Dempsey & Sigurdsson have scored more goals than anyone baring Suarez for us. Didn't Dempsey get the winner at Old toilet?

Never the less regardless of both player's form I don't think we should be going down the route of 'owners and their advisers deciding who is the player best for the team'. That undermines the managers position immediately and leaves open a possible can of worms where too many negatives can be concluded, i.e one being, FSG appointed this man but not trusting his opinion on players is contradicting the trust they had in him in the first place when they appointed him. Or the fact he has to dance like a puppet on transfer targets and be told by non-footballing men who pull the strings whether he can and can't sign a player is IMO a very poor footballing strategy to go forward with.

Anyway, it's these owners who should have learnt most from the shambles of our summer transfer window, because they are the ones when it comes back down to it, who have left this squad hung and dry until the Jan window. It's their fault, they shouldn't be meddling in with potential targets at all, they are suite men, not football managers, and hopefully they've learnt for themselves (again), not to meddle in something they know very little of because the consequences are there right before their eyes - we're a struggling side with no options up front and we're only realistically relying on one player to do the biz for us, and in Prem league football that won't suffice. Our owners have been found wanting, and it's a stark reminder every fec.king week when the Rodgers puts out his team sheet.

by **friendlyguy33** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:00 am

It's irrelevant as to how Dempsey and Sigurdsson have performed this season for Spurs. If Sigurdsson had signed for Liverpool in the summer would Rodgers have still gone for Joe Allen? Debatable.

The point is anyway that Brendan should have been more fully backed in the summer for players that would have provided the quality to have enabled a challenge in all competitions this season.

Liverpool FC Forum

Brendan Rodgers thread (signs extended contract)

Who is online