Liverpool FC Forum

Penguins wrote:But that is why I am saying!
Newcastle can go out and find better players for a fraction of what Kenny spent.
Even though Aguero's of this world are not possible you can get much better value of you look outside the borders...
He blew it so far with transfers and have to try and get the best of what he bought and hope it will pay of because I'll eat my hat if the owners decide to bankroll us for another summer
to patch up what he did wrong.

for all we know the owners could have had a big say in the type of players we were looking for, infact when you think about it moneyball seemed to be a buzzword at the time and there was plenty of talk about how important stats were in identifying potential transfer targets and plenty of talk about signing young players with their best years ahead of them, it all sounded very american and the owners also brought in comoli so they obviously had their own thoughts about what our philosophy should be in terms of player recruitment, they didnt just give kenny a £100m and say to him sign whoever you want, they brought someone in to oversee it all.
whatever happened behind the scene`s in hindsight we needed players that were the finished article who could drive the team on, expecting a 21 and a 22 year old to do that job wasnt being realistic.

We got carried away because of the KK effect that happened when he took over.
We are in transition and the fans should be patient. I fu'ckin hate getting beat at any time but I have to accept that at the moment were struggling. I have to have faith that KK knows wht hes doing and what he needs to do. I do not believe that changing the manger like changing your undies is the answer. We are NOT Chelsea

true, but there is always a pain threshold, right?
Hypothetically is 10th bad enough? 12th?
Or would you been fine going forward with this "plan" if we finsihed in the bottom half this season.
Hypothetically speaking of course.

And we can talk of transition all we want. But how can you defend fighting it out for 7th-8th with Stoke/Fulham/Everton/WBA/Sunderland?
Hand on heart, there is no way. We spent more on players than them combinded last summer and we also finished above them last season...

People say he has to rebuild after Rafa screwed us up and the owl but he has a 35m striker that constantly sits on the bench, a 20m player that wouldn't look out of place playing in a school playground (hendo) and a 8m pub player Adam who he insists on playing, I love Kenny I do but I realise he's not going to take us forward.

Gonna irritate most but I'd love to see Rafa back

Penguins wrote:true, but there is always a pain threshold, right?
Hypothetically is 10th bad enough? 12th?
Or would you been fine going forward with this "plan" if we finsihed in the bottom half this season.
Hypothetically speaking of course.

And we can talk of transition all we want. But how can you defend fighting it out for 7th-8th with Stoke/Fulham/Everton/WBA/Sunderland?
Hand on heart, there is no way. We spent more on players than them combinded last summer and we also finished above them last season...

in the late 80`s / early 90`s united finished 11th and 13th in consecutive seasons with a team that contained about 9 of the players that would go on to win the league 3 seasons later.
a side that included the likes of pallister, bruce, ince, hughes, mcclair etc and managed by alex ferguson finished mid table two years on the bounce.
oh and they spent big money too, on players like pallister and neil webb.
sometimes teams go through tough spell`s and even tough seasons, especially when a manager hasnt been their long and he`s trying to build a good side, it`s not always plain sailing.
no one is denying that we arent going through a bad time at the moment but it`s not all gloom and doom, we have won our first trophy in 6 years, we are still in the f.a cup and looking to the future when everyone is fit there is the basis of a decent side there.

Its NOT a question of who we are NOT like aka Chavski, Newcastle etc........

We are Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds to give us our full title and we don't sack managers without giving them the necessary time to effect a change least of all the legend that is Kenny Dalglish.

I'd rather fall off the bottom of the pools coupon than sack a man who has given (and will continue to give) his all to our club.

Quick fixes are few and far between in football and we need to remember that 14 months in a managers role is nothing especially when you consider that is less than 2 weeks since we won the CC !

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
in the late 80`s / early 90`s united finished 11th and 13th in consecutive seasons with a team that contained about 9 of the players that would go on to win the league 3 seasons later.
a side that included the likes of pallister, bruce, ince, hughes, mcclair etc and managed by alex ferguson finished mid table two years on the bounce.
oh and they spent big money too, on players like pallister and neil webb.
sometimes teams go through tough spell`s and even tough seasons, especially when a manager hasnt been their long and he`s trying to build a good side, it`s not always plain sailing.
no one is denying that we arent going through a bad time at the moment but it`s not all gloom and doom, we have won our first trophy in 6 years, we are still in the f.a cup and looking to the future when everyone is fit there is the basis of a decent side there.

I remember United fans unfurling that infamous banner "Three years of excuses and it's still *****...ta-ra Fergie." ...I mean ffs surely our fans  have more
class than that ? Surely we can back the man through the lean times given his lineage ?

Dalglish wrote:Its NOT a question of who we are NOT like aka Chavski, Newcastle etc........

We are Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds to give us our full title and we don't sack managers without giving them the necessary time to effect a change least of all the legend that is Kenny Dalglish.

I'd rather fall off the bottom of the pools coupon than sack a man who has given (and will continue to give) his all to our club.

Quick fixes are few and far between in football and we need to remember that 14 months in a managers role is nothing especially when you consider that is less than 2 weeks since we won the CC !

That's a class shout mate .

I think it's a really, really tough question.  I've thought about this the last couple weeks, and for me it's a bit of a struggle between head and heart.  I'm not one to jump at early conclusions and lose patience easily, I would have been ok with Roy sticking around for the second half of last season if I'm perfectly honest.

I love Kenny.  He's a great person, and I will always have the utmost respect and appreciation for what he's done for the club.  Nobody represents what LFC stands for better then he does.  There's no classier manager then him, and I love how he sticks up for and loves the club as much as anybody.  What he did at the end of last season, I don't believe anybody else could have done.  He means a lot to us as fans and to the players as well.

I don't care about the signings.  I don't know who made those signings, there are very few people who actually know who decided who we would buy.  That's something that happens.  All the players we signed looked like really good players, and I don't think many of us (if any of us) were complaining when we made those signings.  We felt they could contribute in a positive way, so all of us would have been in the wrong.  What does bother me about Kenny is his reluctance to drop certain players, or play different people.  Maxi seems to play really well, at least enough to earn some more playing time.  Others like Adam and Hendo are still playing every week, and Downing was in that boat for the longest time as well.  Everybody can see how poor they've been, and yet they continue to start or play every game.  He seems to have made some poor tactical decisions as well.  Now obviously we don't know what's going on inside the camp.  Maybe Maxi has a huge attitude problem.  It's hard for us to judge certain things when we aren't directly involved (I know some like to think they are). 

Another thing is the "lift" that everybody talks about that Kenny has brought.  That was definitely true.  It was true.  Anybody who watched us play Sunderland today, if you can honestly tell yourself all 11 players were there 100% wanting to win more then anything in the world, to do it for the club, the fans, and Kenny... Then you're fooling yourselves.  Our heads are down right now, and that's Kenny's job to pick them up.  It's what he's best at, and right now it's not happening, and it worries me.  If he can get the boys turned around like he did at the end of last season then we'd be in business and one of the hardest clubs to beat.  But right now it looks like we will have a poor finish to the season, and possibly end up mid table.

With that said, I love Kenny and if he's here for 10 more years or 10 more days I will stand behind him 100% without question.  I'll be sad the day he goes because I absolutely love Kenny, but there will be a point when the management will have to take a step back and ask, "Is this what we signed up for?"  If our club continues to perform like they have, FSG will worry about the money they're investing.  They're here to make money, so if that's not happening because our club isn't performing like they expected then they may back out, and we may end up with another half-ass owner like we've had in the past.  Regardless, I feel he'll always be good for the club, and if he's no longer manager I hope he sticks around and has some roll at the club, maybe as an ambassador or promoter of the club.

I know why people want him out but this is not the way we deal with these things, especially not with our f*cking legends. I know that the legend thing shouldn't be the reason he stays, but like I said we don't deal with these things in this way, we're not Chelsea. Also, Kenny shouldn't be the one to get all the criticism. Comolli is responsible for all the transfers, he's even more to blame than Kenny. I'd give him until the end of his contract, if things don't improve by then, then we'll make a change.

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
in the late 80`s / early 90`s united finished 11th and 13th in consecutive seasons with a team that contained about 9 of the players that would go on to win the league 3 seasons later.
a side that included the likes of pallister, bruce, ince, hughes, mcclair etc and managed by alex ferguson finished mid table two years on the bounce.
oh and they spent big money too, on players like pallister and neil webb.
sometimes teams go through tough spell`s and even tough seasons, especially when a manager hasnt been their long and he`s trying to build a good side, it`s not always plain sailing.
no one is denying that we arent going through a bad time at the moment but it`s not all gloom and doom, we have won our first trophy in 6 years, we are still in the f.a cup and looking to the future when everyone is fit there is the basis of a decent side there.

I remember United fans unfurling that infamous banner "Three years of excuses and it's still *****...ta-ra Fergie." ...I mean ffs surely our fans  have more
class than that ? Surely we can back the man through the lean times given his lineage ?

a lot of fans these days dont understand the culture of the club mate, years ago when times got tough the fans used to circle the wagons, these days the fans circle alright they circle like vultures.

I’ve supported Liverpool since 1976. I was 8 years old. Here in N. Ireland, you’re football mad and you pick a boyhood team. Why Liverpool? I don’t know. We had The Spinners programme on regularly on BBC that my folks never missed. And there was talk of relatives living in Liverpool as it was supposed to be full of Irish. Or maybe it was just that I picked my team from the Match of The Day highlights. Whatever, I picked Liverpool. Other mates picked Leeds, others Utd. I picked Liverpool. My first big football memory is of crying after the 2:1 FA Cup defeat to Utd in 1977. My sister wondering what was wrong with my head, my mates berating me. But it has been MY pleasure and MY curse for 35 years. My first visit to Anfield was in 1982. My mother knew my passion. And now my children know and share my passion.

So why do I find it necessary to qualify myself to you all. Cause now I’m going to give you my opinion.

Martin O’Neill was born and grew up 10 miles from my home town. I went to school with and was a great friend of his niece.  Around the time Rafa was appointed, I hoped it would be O’Neill. I’ve spoken to Martin and found him a very hospitable, witty and warm guy. Today, watching that dross, I found myself edging towards a feeling that I wished we had someone like O’Neill to stoke the fires and passions in our players, to perform like his team were performing. I found myself thinking O’Neill is so good because he is a great man manager. And then I remembered who we have.

Kenny Dalglish is my boyhood hero. But I’m not going to let that cloud my judgement. He is one of the best man managers in football management today. Steve Clarke and Kevin Keen are two of the best young coaches in the business today and they are ours.

Lets write fourth place off. Its gone. An FA Cup final might be achievable, and it would be great, but as far as the premier league goes, lets just do the best we can. This is a transitional season.
Enrique, great success. Carroll, Henderson, Spearing -  all young, and will come good. Downing, Adam,  - will come good in a successful team, with no pressure on us. Kuyt was world class in a Dutch team that beat England.

In the summer, we need to get challenging back up for Lucas, a right midfielder and, above all, a world class finisher.

Keep the faith guys. Think of all the woodwork we’ve hit this season. BELIEVE!!! Lets not change for the sake of it.

REMEMBER!! Kenny has the  best interest of the club at heart. ALWAYS!! If he thinks that the club will benefit if he should leave then he would be the first to go. LETS GIVE HIM OUR FULL SUPPORT!!!!

Doc Lashed wrote:I’ve supported Liverpool since 1976. I was 8 years old. Here in N. Ireland, you’re football mad and you pick a boyhood team. Why Liverpool? I don’t know. We had The Spinners programme on regularly on BBC that my folks never missed. And there was talk of relatives living in Liverpool as it was supposed to be full of Irish. Or maybe it was just that I picked my team from the Match of The Day highlights. Whatever, I picked Liverpool. Other mates picked Leeds, others Utd. I picked Liverpool. My first big football memory is of crying after the 2:1 FA Cup defeat to Utd in 1977. My sister wondering what was wrong with my head, my mates berating me. But it has been MY pleasure and MY curse for 35 years. My first visit to Anfield was in 1982. My mother knew my passion. And now my children know and share my passion.

So why do I find it necessary to qualify myself to you all. Cause now I’m going to give you my opinion.

Martin O’Neill was born and grew up 10 miles from my home town. I went to school with and was a great friend of his niece.  Around the time Rafa was appointed, I hoped it would be O’Neill. I’ve spoken to Martin and found him a very hospitable, witty and warm guy. Today, watching that dross, I found myself edging towards a feeling that I wished we had someone like O’Neill to stoke the fires and passions in our players, to perform like his team were performing. I found myself thinking O’Neill is so good because he is a great man manager. And then I remembered who we have.

Kenny Dalglish is my boyhood hero. But I’m not going to let that cloud my judgement. He is one of the best man managers in football management today. Steve Clarke and Kevin Keen are two of the best young coaches in the business today and they are ours.

Lets write fourth place off. Its gone. An FA Cup final might be achievable, and it would be great, but as far as the premier league goes, lets just do the best we can. This is a transitional season.
Enrique, great success. Carroll, Henderson, Spearing -  all young, and will come good. Downing, Adam,  - will come good in a successful team, with no pressure on us. Kuyt was world class in a Dutch team that beat England.

In the summer, we need to get challenging back up for Lucas, a right midfielder and, above all, a world class finisher.

Keep the faith guys. Think of all the woodwork we’ve hit this season. BELIEVE!!! Lets not change for the sake of it.

REMEMBER!! Kenny has the  best interest of the club at heart. ALWAYS!! If he thinks that the club will benefit if he should leave then he would be the first to go. LETS GIVE HIM OUR FULL SUPPORT!!!!

Some great posts lads. Totally agree, Kenny only goes if he chooses to.

Dalglish wrote:Its NOT a question of who we are NOT like aka Chavski, Newcastle etc........

We are Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds to give us our full title and we don't sack managers without giving them the necessary time to effect a change least of all the legend that is Kenny Dalglish.

I'd rather fall off the bottom of the pools coupon than sack a man who has given (and will continue to give) his all to our club.

Quick fixes are few and far between in football and we need to remember that 14 months in a managers role is nothing especially when you consider that is less than 2 weeks since we won the CC !

You have summed up why its a terrible situation we are in. We have appointed a legend as manager. We now have many giving analysis with hearts rather than heads.

This harking back to the past is the prime reason Liverpool has stood still as a club. I tend to skip over those posts as its based on sentiment rather than substance, its dated opinions that has no relevance to 2012. Football is different. The money is different. The demands are different. 20 years ago you could go three years not playing in the European Cup and you still wouldnt be any worse than the team that finished 2nd, nowdays that isnt the case. You get left behind.

No manager in our history has spent 100 million in a year, until Kenny. Somehow the team is weaker now than it was before that money was spent. Its quite a "feat". English players are two things; 1.massively inflated price, 2.inferior to top nationalities. If we went for the best English players then fair enough, but we didn't. The fees we paid were beyond extortionate. 55 million on two players from the north east. If Kenny diesnt succeed here its that outlay that will be the prime reason. Rafa bought Xabi Alonso, a 22 year old from Spain who didnt even know the league, but what he did have was the talent. Because Kenny didnt buy talent, thats why he has failed in the transfer market, and we are a lesser side.