Liverpool FC Forum

[THEBARON]

One topic that I have talked over with family, friends and work colleagues is the possibility of Kenny Dalglish actually returning as manager. Having looked through the forum tonight I thought it pertinent to actually raise his return as a subject for discussion.
Initially I was against the idea of King Kenny coming back. This view was based on the following factors
1.There are not many examples of a manager returning to a club where he successfully managed and repeated the success. Kendall did nothing at Everton, Alison was a disaster at Man City and Keegan was doomed at Newcastle from the start.
2.Kenny is rumoured to have quit back in 1991 because of pressure and stress. Although the situation is very different now to 1991 – the pressure and stress will still be there.
3.At the time of his departure he was accused of leaving an ageing squad that left his successor with no option but to look for younger options.
4.Towards the end of his time at Liverpool his tactics, team selections and purchases came into question;
E.g. increasingly negative selections, dropping Beardsley, playing Staunton, buying Jimmy Carter and David Speedie.
5.Kenny has not been involved in club management for over a decade.
6.His most recent posting at Celtic was not deemed a success, even though he did win a trophy.
7.Is Kenny ready to cope with the extra demands of management that were not there in 1991 – the extra demands of the media, the increased player power?
8.Can he cope with the current boardroom set up at Anfield?  Will he be an extra mouthpiece for the yanks or will he adopt the same stance as rafa? Is it possible for him to adopt a stance that is in between these 2 positions?
9.As he approaches his sixties does he really want the hassle?

Having read the forums I saw many views that echoed these thoughts, suggestions that he was our past rather than our future. But then as I continued to read I began to think again. This change of stance was based on the following factors;
1.Given the lack of credible alternatives Kenny has suddenly become a very realistic option. I despair at some of the names linked with the job and cringe at some of the people who have openly touted for the job – Curbishley! I thought O’Neill was a good option 6 years ago – but not so sure now. Roy Hodgson has his plus points – but his record does not fill me with confidence. Huddink would have been a good choice but has ruled himself out.
2.From a financial perspective appointing Kenny would not cost any compensation payments.
3.He knows the English game – having played and managed in the top flight. He has won the Top League with 2 different clubs.
4.His time at Newcastle was not as bad as some people have suggested – a Cup Final and Champions League football. Compare his record with that of his predecessors and probably only Bobby Robson did better.
5.The issue of age may be irrelevant. There are previous and current examples of “older” managers succeeding. Ferguson (regrettably) is still going strong- as is Capello. Joe Fagan was in his sixties when he was appointed.
6.He has a deep knowledge of the club – the history and the tradition.
7.The word legend is over used in the current climate but few would doubt Dalglish’s legendary status. Hopefully the presence of Dalglish would inspire the likes of Gerrard and Torres to stay and deliver.
8.With the benefit of hindsight Kenny’s record in the transfer market seems pretty good. The signings of Barnes, Beardsley, McMahon, Houghton and Aldridge were all well judged and compare very favourably with the purchases of subsequent incumbents.
9.The allegation that Dalglish left behind a squad that was too old does have its merits but can be misleading. Of the squad that Souness inherited – Grobbelaar, Nicol, Whelan, Molby, Rush and Barnes were all there when he departed. Beardsley, Staunton and Houghton all continued at a high level for a number of years. There was also a number of promising young players on the horizon who would appear and flourish after Dalglish had left.
10.His record as manager surely means he deserves another crack if he wants it? In 5 and a half seasons he won 3 Leagues and 2 FA Cups and with a bit of luck he could have finished with 3 doubles rather than 1. His overall win percentage is even better than that of Shankly and Paisley.
11.The football that his team played in 1987 – 1988 was arguably the best to watch from any Liverpool team. They were a joy to watch and usually got the results as well.
12.Maybe his previous experiences will make him the right candidate for the current upheaval. Remember that he became manager post Heysel when we faced the European ban and a hostile media. Within 12 months we had done the double for the first time in our history. Kenny’s conduct and behaviour post Hillsborough will never be forgotten. The current situation will require self belief, determination and a desire to get the job done. Kenny has proved his worth previously
13.Despite his lengthy absence from management Kenny still has the experience of managing at a top club and that can not be ignored. The game has changed a lot in the last decade but not to such an extent that previous success should be discounted. Kenny can draw on the experience of Sammy Lee if he wants to and will have some idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the club having been working there for 12 months.

Maybe my views are influenced by a nostalgic hope that Kenny could take us back to better times when we were the best without question.
From a realistic perspective this is impossible in the current environment (internal and external).
However, if we appoint the wrong person this summer the long term consequences could be disastrous. A finish of seventh could be beyond us if we put the wrong person in charge.
Kenny Dalglish was something of a surprise when he was appointed as Player Manager in 1985. He had given no public inclination of a career in management, was not keen to deal with the press and there were other options available. The Chairman at the time, John Smith, saw something in Dalglish, a determination, a self belief and a love of the club that made him a suitable candidate for the top job. Above all, maybe he thought Kenny was a winner?

If Kenny does come back then he risks losing a lot – but maybe he will find it a risk worth taking?

[SouthCoastShankly]

Kenny left in 91 not due to stress or pressure but the lasting effect of the hillsborough disaster had on him.

[Reg]

Kenny left in 91 not due to stress or pressure but the lasting effect of the hillsborough disaster had on him.

Isnt that the same thing? Seems difficult to separate them.

[Kharhaz]

If Kenny does come back then he risks losing a lot – but maybe he will find it a risk worth taking?

If Kenny takes over he risks nothing, we acknowledge the state of the club, we take Kenny for the legend he is, success or failure if he does take over the team doesnt apply to Kenny. He is Liverpools legendary servant, who has been through it all with the club.

I would give him the chance. His mere presence commands respect. I dont think he will do as bad as people think.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

One topic that I have talked over with family, friends and work colleagues is the possibility of Kenny Dalglish actually returning as manager. Having looked through the forum tonight I thought it pertinent to actually raise his return as a subject for discussion.
Initially I was against the idea of King Kenny coming back. This view was based on the following factors
1.There are not many examples of a manager returning to a club where he successfully managed and repeated the success. Kendall did nothing at Everton, Alison was a disaster at Man City and Keegan was doomed at Newcastle from the start.
2.Kenny is rumoured to have quit back in 1991 because of pressure and stress. Although the situation is very different now to 1991 – the pressure and stress will still be there.
3.At the time of his departure he was accused of leaving an ageing squad that left his successor with no option but to look for younger options.
4.Towards the end of his time at Liverpool his tactics, team selections and purchases came into question;
E.g. increasingly negative selections, dropping Beardsley, playing Staunton, buying Jimmy Carter and David Speedie.
5.Kenny has not been involved in club management for over a decade.
6.His most recent posting at Celtic was not deemed a success, even though he did win a trophy.
7.Is Kenny ready to cope with the extra demands of management that were not there in 1991 – the extra demands of the media, the increased player power?
8.Can he cope with the current boardroom set up at Anfield?  Will he be an extra mouthpiece for the yanks or will he adopt the same stance as rafa? Is it possible for him to adopt a stance that is in between these 2 positions?
9.As he approaches his sixties does he really want the hassle?

Having read the forums I saw many views that echoed these thoughts, suggestions that he was our past rather than our future. But then as I continued to read I began to think again. This change of stance was based on the following factors;
1.Given the lack of credible alternatives Kenny has suddenly become a very realistic option. I despair at some of the names linked with the job and cringe at some of the people who have openly touted for the job – Curbishley! I thought O’Neill was a good option 6 years ago – but not so sure now. Roy Hodgson has his plus points – but his record does not fill me with confidence. Huddink would have been a good choice but has ruled himself out.
2.From a financial perspective appointing Kenny would not cost any compensation payments.
3.He knows the English game – having played and managed in the top flight. He has won the Top League with 2 different clubs.
4.His time at Newcastle was not as bad as some people have suggested – a Cup Final and Champions League football. Compare his record with that of his predecessors and probably only Bobby Robson did better.
5.The issue of age may be irrelevant. There are previous and current examples of “older” managers succeeding. Ferguson (regrettably) is still going strong- as is Capello. Joe Fagan was in his sixties when he was appointed.
6.He has a deep knowledge of the club – the history and the tradition.
7.The word legend is over used in the current climate but few would doubt Dalglish’s legendary status. Hopefully the presence of Dalglish would inspire the likes of Gerrard and Torres to stay and deliver.
8.With the benefit of hindsight Kenny’s record in the transfer market seems pretty good. The signings of Barnes, Beardsley, McMahon, Houghton and Aldridge were all well judged and compare very favourably with the purchases of subsequent incumbents.
9.The allegation that Dalglish left behind a squad that was too old does have its merits but can be misleading. Of the squad that Souness inherited – Grobbelaar, Nicol, Whelan, Molby, Rush and Barnes were all there when he departed. Beardsley, Staunton and Houghton all continued at a high level for a number of years. There was also a number of promising young players on the horizon who would appear and flourish after Dalglish had left.
10.His record as manager surely means he deserves another crack if he wants it? In 5 and a half seasons he won 3 Leagues and 2 FA Cups and with a bit of luck he could have finished with 3 doubles rather than 1. His overall win percentage is even better than that of Shankly and Paisley.
11.The football that his team played in 1987 – 1988 was arguably the best to watch from any Liverpool team. They were a joy to watch and usually got the results as well.
12.Maybe his previous experiences will make him the right candidate for the current upheaval. Remember that he became manager post Heysel when we faced the European ban and a hostile media. Within 12 months we had done the double for the first time in our history. Kenny’s conduct and behaviour post Hillsborough will never be forgotten. The current situation will require self belief, determination and a desire to get the job done. Kenny has proved his worth previously
13.Despite his lengthy absence from management Kenny still has the experience of managing at a top club and that can not be ignored. The game has changed a lot in the last decade but not to such an extent that previous success should be discounted. Kenny can draw on the experience of Sammy Lee if he wants to and will have some idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the club having been working there for 12 months.

Maybe my views are influenced by a nostalgic hope that Kenny could take us back to better times when we were the best without question.
From a realistic perspective this is impossible in the current environment (internal and external).
However, if we appoint the wrong person this summer the long term consequences could be disastrous. A finish of seventh could be beyond us if we put the wrong person in charge.
Kenny Dalglish was something of a surprise when he was appointed as Player Manager in 1985. He had given no public inclination of a career in management, was not keen to deal with the press and there were other options available. The Chairman at the time, John Smith, saw something in Dalglish, a determination, a self belief and a love of the club that made him a suitable candidate for the top job. Above all, maybe he thought Kenny was a winner?

If Kenny does come back then he risks losing a lot – but maybe he will find it a risk worth taking?

Good post lad.... nice to see an old poster back on the boards

[laza]

Taken aside whether Kenny will flourish in football management in 2010.

My biggest concern about him returning as a manager is more the politcial implications while those two scum sucking financial  vampires are in still ownership of the club

[zarababe]

Given the list of 'contenders' - absolutely - I still think we should pursue Hiddink !

[THEBARON]

I agree that Hiddink would be the best choice - if he was available.
He has gone on record saying that he will carry on with Turkey so unfortunately he is a no no.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

I think Kenny brings so much he cant be ignored.

But he will have some areas that he may need assistance with - If we have a really strong No 2 (I'm not sure Sammy Lee is it), who has expertise in these areas, I think Kenny Dalglish could get this current squad playing well and improve on last years tenure.

I know this is going to sound mad - but what about Kenny Dalglish with Paco back as his No 2...  I know it isnt going to happen - but what a team!

[THEBARON]

Not a bad shout at all!

The trophies certainly dried up after Paco left. I am not saying his departure was the main reason but if Paco had stayed I am certain that things would have gone down a different route.

[Bad Bob]

I'd like to see Kenny given the job.  He'll have the players' respect, he'll have the club's best interests at heart and he'll keep the owners honest, IMO.  I think he's our best chance of holding onto Stevie and Torres and maybe even the likes of Benayoun.  I don't know what he'll give us tactically but I suspect he might have a notion of how to select the best players in their best positions and motivate them to sweat blood for the shirt, which should carry us through most league matches.  Hell, we might even put up a fight in the domestic cups again.

[Bad Bob]

Incidentally, I don't know how Kenny doesn't get the job now.  He's made it known he wants it and loads of pundits are queuing up to endorse him.  Even his son confirms he's interested.  The owners know he's a Kop legend and it would look like an almighty snub at a most sensitive time if he were swerved in favour of Hodgson (or Sven etc.).  Unless the likes of Hiddink changed his mind on Turkey and made a come get me plea, I don't see it being anyone but Kenny TBPH.

[Reg]

Kenny isnt our first choice, I doubt he's even our fifth choice so why does everyone want to give him the job?

Playing devils advocate....

[Bad Bob]

Kenny isnt our first choice, I doubt he's even our fifth choice so why does everyone want to give him the job?

Playing devils advocate....

So, who's our* first through fifth choices then, mate?  For the sake of discussion.


* I'm skeptical of the implied unanimity.

[stmichael]

As I've previously stated, I don't particularly think Kenny is the best option to be our next manager but it does make sense in that at least he has the club at heart and would get the fans behind him.

I've got nothing against Hodgson. He's a nice guy and has done a decent job at several clubs he's been at. However if you'd suggested him as our manager six months ago you'd have been laughed off here. As Ciggy was pointing out yesterday our away form has been dismal recently and this is hardly going to improve under a manager who's away record was even worse tha Rafa's last season.

Kenny should only be a temporary manager though until the club is sold and we can try to bring in a higher profile manager.