Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:12 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:If you say so - football is now a money driven world - ambition has been replaced by getting as much money as possible .

There's probably loads of players who share your mentality, just don't think that your grasping view of life automatically applies to ALL of them.

Off course there will be the odd one off occasions - like Exetberria who played for free in the last year of his contract with Bilbao or Onyewu who refused to be paid for a year due to missing a year with injury - but IMO these are rare occasions . For me when it comes to 99% of footballers its all about playing the game to get the money to give them a nice life - you cant blame the players really - can only really blame the invention of sky and the riches they brought to the game and then owners like Abramovich and Al Mansour who will pay whatever people want in order to get players/manager.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:21 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Benny: So when you said, "If previous manager had signed him it would of been for the same reason - money , anything else is just pure romance - the stuff that no longer happens.", you were talking b0llocks?

Its what i believe - the major factor for me is money .

It may be your belief but isn't a sound belief.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:23 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Benny: So when you said, "If previous manager had signed him it would of been for the same reason - money , anything else is just pure romance - the stuff that no longer happens.", you were talking b0llocks?

Its what i believe - the major factor for me is money .

It may be your belief but isn't a sound belief.

Thats all down to personal opinion at the end of the day

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:27 pm

You don't even know that we offered more money than rival clubs, but yeah, the major factor was money and that's a sound belief

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:29 pm

Like i say its my opinion - you can either agree or disagree - no bother to me .

by **andy_g** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:32 pm

i declare it to be time for one of those interminable debates about the difference between belief and opinion.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:29 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Like i say its my opinion - you can either agree or disagree - no bother to me .

Ah, the old "I stand by what I said. It's my opinion and I have a right to it. You can disagree with me all you like but it's my opinion." - great :buttrock

, it's still a load of b0llocks though.

The fact is, nobody truly knows the exact nature of Cole's motivations for joining us, instead of a rival club, except Joe Cole himself. You would though, if you were his agent, be able to establish whether financial reward was not the primary motivator for his decision. That is, if he is earning less with us than he would have earned elsewhere, one could say with absolute certainty that something else, not money, was the deciding factor in his decision. However, if you were his agent and you knew that the Liverpool offer rewarded him, in monetary terms, with an offer that was equal to or greater than any other offer, then although you wouldn't be able to discount money having been the deciding factor, you would still be in a position where you wouldn't be able to rule out other factors i.e. money not necessarily the deciding factor.

Now, in the first place we - forumites - don't know whether the Liverpool offer was the most rewarding financial offer since nobody here possesses that knowledge (or do they? that's another assumption

), so we cannot know whether money was not the deciding factor. Indeed, we don't know how our offer compared to the other offers at all. But, as fans and forumites we come to accept certain claims made by the media, and though I myself never really took a great deal of notice of the reported values of the offers made by Liverpool, Spurs, Man U, Arsenal (or other), I'm willing to accept - for the sake of argument - that your claim that the contract Liverpool offered was correctly reported to have been the highest offer on the table. But that's all I'll accept. I won't accept the claim that we offered substantially more than any other club, or else we'll end up contradicting ourselves about the true financial state of the club prior to it being sold.

So, we're left with a situation in which we can't rule out money having been the deciding factor, but nor can we be certain that money was the deciding factor and we therefore have to consider those "other factors". You're as presumptous as to believe that a marginally better wage packet was the main driver behind his decision. You're as presumptous as to believe that the virtual guarantee of playing regular first team football (having not done so for a while) alongside the likes of Gerrard, Torres and his old teammate Glen Johnson counted less than the extra money on offer; that the history and tradition of Liverpool FC and the prospect of new ownership on the horizon, counted less than the extra money on offer; that his decision to uplift his young family and move away from his childhood home counted less than the extra money on offer. After all that, you still feel confident enough to say that "he came here because of the contract"? Cop the phuck on.

by **tubby** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:13 pm

I think Cole deep down did want to come to us. That CL game a few years ago at Stamford Bridge when we went out you could see it in the way he talked about us coming back that he had a lot of respect for us. Maybe reading too much into it but I don't think his decision was 100% money based.

by **mart** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:32 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Ah, the old "I stand by what I said. It's my opinion and I have a right to it. You can disagree with me all you like but it's my opinion." - great , it's still a load of b0llocks though.

Its as valid as yours. Why is it so important for you to think that Cole didnt sign for the money?

You're as presumptous as to believe that the virtual guarantee of playing regular first team football (having not done so for a while) alongside the likes of Gerrard, Torres and his old teammate Glen Johnson counted less than the extra money on offer

Probably because he wanted to leave chelsea when they would not meet his wage demands. (That very pretty high for a squad player).

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:09 pm

mart wrote:Its as valid as yours. Why is it so important for you to think that Cole didnt sign for the money?

Probably because he wanted to leave chelsea when they would not meet his wage demands. (That very pretty high for a squad player).

It isn't that I think Cole didn't "sign for the money" or even that Cole signed "primarily for the extra money". It's that i) we don't know that he accepted the highest monetary offer, ii) For the sake of argument assuming he did, it's unlikely that we blew every other club out of the water, and second that any marginal gain arising from such a deal would far from make it obvious that money was the deciding factor.

Some people, such as yourself, will believe what they want to believe. Others will be more skeptical.

by **maguskwt** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:31 am

Do we need to write long essays back and forth to argue something we will truly never know?

... I believe there are alot of factors involved...

- the club, it's history, the fans and anfield's atmosphere
- money: we offered something comparable to other offers
- the chance to play first team football on a regular basis; Cole might think that he has less competition for his role at lfc
- chance to play with players like Gerrard, Torres, Reina, and Carragher
- the prospect of new owners, i.e. ivestment in the team

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:09 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Like i say its my opinion - you can either agree or disagree - no bother to me .

Ah, the old "I stand by what I said. It's my opinion and I have a right to it. You can disagree with me all you like but it's my opinion." - great , it's still a load of b0llocks though.

The fact is, nobody truly knows the exact nature of Cole's motivations for joining us, instead of a rival club, except Joe Cole himself. You would though, if you were his agent, be able to establish whether financial reward was not the primary motivator for his decision. That is, if he is earning less with us than he would have earned elsewhere, one could say with absolute certainty that something else, not money, was the deciding factor in his decision. However, if you were his agent and you knew that the Liverpool offer rewarded him, in monetary terms, with an offer that was equal to or greater than any other offer, then although you wouldn't be able to discount money having been the deciding factor, you would still be in a position where you wouldn't be able to rule out other factors i.e. money not necessarily the deciding factor.

Now, in the first place we - forumites - don't know whether the Liverpool offer was the most rewarding financial offer since nobody here possesses that knowledge (or do they? that's another assumption ), so we cannot know whether money was not the deciding factor. Indeed, we don't know how our offer compared to the other offers at all. But, as fans and forumites we come to accept certain claims made by the media, and though I myself never really took a great deal of notice of the reported values of the offers made by Liverpool, Spurs, Man U, Arsenal (or other), I'm willing to accept - for the sake of argument - that your claim that the contract Liverpool offered was correctly reported to have been the highest offer on the table. But that's all I'll accept. I won't accept the claim that we offered substantially more than any other club, or else we'll end up contradicting ourselves about the true financial state of the club prior to it being sold.

So, we're left with a situation in which we can't rule out money having been the deciding factor, but nor can we be certain that money was the deciding factor and we therefore have to consider those "other factors". You're as presumptous as to believe that a marginally better wage packet was the main driver behind his decision. You're as presumptous as to believe that the virtual guarantee of playing regular first team football (having not done so for a while) alongside the likes of Gerrard, Torres and his old teammate Glen Johnson counted less than the extra money on offer; that the history and tradition of Liverpool FC and the prospect of new ownership on the horizon, counted less than the extra money on offer; that his decision to uplift his young family and move away from his childhood home counted less than the extra money on offer. After all that, you still feel confident enough to say that "he came here because of the contract"? Cop the phuck on.

excellent post LFC2007. sadly, there are people who believe their beliefs to be applicable to all.

by **andy_g** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:22 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:excellent post LFC2007. sadly, there are people who believe their beliefs to be applicable to all.

but that's just your opinion so we'll have to take it on faith, i believe

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:14 am

andy_g wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:excellent post LFC2007. sadly, there are people who believe their beliefs to be applicable to all.

but that's just your opinion so we'll have to take it on faith, i believe

ironic isnt it? :;):

by **PabloMedina28** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:22 am

Who gives a :censored:

why he joined? He joined END OF :blues:

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