Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

We didnt even need to go out splashing 10s of millions to sign top quality fullbacks and CBs, many good players would have been available for cheap if we had expressed an interest in signing them... The likes of Warnock, Pantsil, Upson, Mexes, Ziegler...etc etc are all players who are either out of contract soon or are not wanted by their respective clubs... All would have been step ups on what we have or represented better backup..

i don't completely agree with this bit. one thing we have certainly complained about over the past years is buying quantity and not quality, and i don't see any of the names in that list as anything more than squad players.

we have 4 decent centre backs - carra, agger, skrtel, and soto - plus the very promising wilson as cover. so we'll be fine til the end of the season when we can buy better, unless disaster strikes.

full back is a little more tricky, but kelly seems to have nailed the right back slot and johnson is adapting quickly to left back. we also have aurelio who is an excellent player when fit. we're a little thin on cover but we have options and i'd prefer that to wasting a few million on filler before the summer.

i'm sure the owners and the manger want to do something about our defence but are firm in their strategy of buying young and promising, even if it means splashing out. the late bid for micah richards should set our minds a little more at rest about this.

Carra's injury spell aside, we've had the 4 CBs you mentioned the whole season. We've also had Johnson and Kelly in addition to Konchesky and Aurelio... None of the names above (bar Agger at times and the potential of Kelly) have proven to be indispensible members of the first team..
We've gotten rid of Konchesky and you have to say that players like Soto, Aurelio and even Skrtel are unlikely to be at the club past summer... Imo players like Pantsil and Warnock would atleast be regarded as good backup in the long term while being a step up on anything we have in the short term...
Mexes on the other hand is one of the best CBs in Europe and despite his age he'd be a good player for the club for the next 2-3 years at the very least...

Regardless, the names that i proposed are besides the point.. Only mentioned them because doubtless someone was going to pop in asking what players are available for cheap in January who are good enough to play for our club...

Point is, the players we have -while being big names in the business- are mostly not good enough and have cost us many points this season already.. You cant honestly expect the owners to go out and splash 20+million on 3 defenders in the summer while similarly forking out to strengthen other positions..

We had a chance given the funds available and the shortage in numbers and quality to add atleast 1 good defensive acquisition to the club in the Jan window and we failed to do so... Not the end of the world and hopefully Kenny has a way to deal with the whole thing, but to say that it's clueless to suggest we could have done better is just that...

[Waldo]

just on the defence the reported bid for micah richards was a strange one for me. that smacked of a comolli signing to me because it came completely out of the blue and he was not being brought in to replace anyone. we do need a left back and a centre half in the summer though. surprised nobody went in for cahill of bolton.

when is carra due back anyway?

Carra won't feature tonight but he may well be fit for the weekend.

Micah Richards would have been a great signing and can cover RB and CB. I rate him highly and would like to see us go back in for him in the summer. He is similar to Johnson in that he is good going forward but I reckon he is a better defender.

Perhaps the idea of trying to buy him in January was a result of us not getting a LB, Johnson being required to continue at LB for the remainder of the season and Richards being brought in either to play CB or (as I would prefer) Kelly to move into CB and Richards play RB.

We need quality cover at the back and it may be our achilles heal for the remainder of the season if Agger and/or Carra don't stay fit and healthy and playing regularly together.

[Penguins]

Almost status quo for me.

We lost a decent forward/winger and a world class forward for to very good and promising forwards. A very small improvement imo and then you have to factor in that Carroll is injured for awhile so we only have Suarez availabe and Ngog....


And you defense just isn't good enough. We have 4 decent CB but a single stalwart och top class defender back there.

Our wingers are now fewer will no pace at all. Just awful imo.

And can the team cope with having 2 forwards playing?
When are having problems on the defensive side now when we have 1 more in the midfield, how will it then look with only 2 cm?

And if our wingers are poor in a 4-2-3-1, they will be just abysmal in a 4-4-2.

The structual problems in the team haven't been addressed one bit as a couple of forwards have left and a couple have come.

[stmichael]

full back is a little more tricky, but kelly seems to have nailed the right back slot and johnson is adapting quickly to left back. we also have aurelio who is an excellent player when fit. we're a little thin on cover but we have options and i'd prefer that to wasting a few million on filler before the summer.

That's the problem. He can't stay fit for more than ten minutes. When he's fit both him and Agger improve us as a side no end because they're footballers who bring the ball out from defence and look to play it on the deck and opposed to Carra and Skrtel who hoof it long all the time.

Where a lot of fans disagree is on the quality of Insua and whether he'd ever make it here if he was recalled from his loan where lets face it, he's hardly set the world on fire. He's a talented lad going forward but once again can be vulnerable defensively. We still desperately need a top quality left back and have done since Riise left. It's become a bit of a joke position really.

[redbilly]

I am pretty sure the club had some targets marked for the window but (he who shall not be named) threw a spanner in the works throwing his toys out of his cot with only three days to go. The club naturally had to rethink what positions were critical.
Although we definatly need to strengthen things at the back the clubs attention was switched to up front.
The defence imho can do a job, they just tend to make the odd schoolboy error and it seems to be when the spotlight is on LFC like this Sunday. The mindset of the team has changed from the defensive ways of the last 18 months to a more offensive pass and move and presure the opposition style. (Just like back in the day)
Overall I am happy with what we achieved in the transfer window and things seems to be on the up.
Really looking forward to seeing the big lad wearing the No9. Suarez on the other hand will need games to adjust to the PL but in time the pair of them will scare the sh1t out of any PL defence.

[andy_g]

We didnt even need to go out splashing 10s of millions to sign top quality fullbacks and CBs, many good players would have been available for cheap if we had expressed an interest in signing them... The likes of Warnock, Pantsil, Upson, Mexes, Ziegler...etc etc are all players who are either out of contract soon or are not wanted by their respective clubs... All would have been step ups on what we have or represented better backup..

i don't completely agree with this bit. one thing we have certainly complained about over the past years is buying quantity and not quality, and i don't see any of the names in that list as anything more than squad players.

we have 4 decent centre backs - carra, agger, skrtel, and soto - plus the very promising wilson as cover. so we'll be fine til the end of the season when we can buy better, unless disaster strikes.

full back is a little more tricky, but kelly seems to have nailed the right back slot and johnson is adapting quickly to left back. we also have aurelio who is an excellent player when fit. we're a little thin on cover but we have options and i'd prefer that to wasting a few million on filler before the summer.

i'm sure the owners and the manger want to do something about our defence but are firm in their strategy of buying young and promising, even if it means splashing out. the late bid for micah richards should set our minds a little more at rest about this.

Andy would you describe the performance of our back four (CB+FB) as decent? If that is the case then we need to agree to disagree. I thought since the beginning of the Year overall performance of the defence was poor ,and i also include our Defensive Mifielders...Yes Kelly looks as a decent answer ,But then you are losing Johnson as a natural RB or Right Winger ,Skertel is a disaster waiting to happen ,Agger when fit and this is a big when is more then decent ,Carra has a terrible seaon even before injury ,Soto is a decent backup and the LB position is not existing. If you feel this estimate is not accurate fair enough ,then we disagree.

my point is that we absolutely desperately needed forwards, we don't desperately need defenders. in the summer i would like to see us strengthen across the back, but we didn't need to in january. at least, not if the right players weren't available.

[Bad Bob]

Look, let's be realistic about this okay?  First, as noted, it's the January window and no massive squad shake-ups happen in January for all the reasons I've discussed above.  Anyone expecting that is not grasping the realities of modern football, IMO.

But, going beyond that for a minute...let's look at our particular situation this transfer window.  The club was obviously negotiating to bring in both Suarez and Adam.  That much we know for sure.  According to rumours, we might well have also been inquiring about Ashley Young and Stephen Warnock but we can't be quite so certain about those.  Anyway, we were proceeding as you do in January (and as you do once more under Dalglish at Liverpool): quietly negotiating behind the scenes, trying to get our main targets without giving away the farm.  The grumblings coming from both Ajax and Blackpool attest to the fact that we were after their main men in a committed but prudent way, slowly advancing negotiations.  Indeed, we accomplished what we set out to do with Saurez and I think we were probably getting close with Adam too.

Then, wham, in comes Chelsea with the Torres bid and he blindsides us with the transfer request with 3 days left in the fooking window.  This upset the whole applecart my friends.  Now, if Chelsea had really low-balled it, we could have told them to feck off...even with Nando's transfer request.  No point letting go of the lad for cheap right?  We would have knocked the chavs' offer back and told Torres to get his head down until the end of the season.  But, Chelsea's offer wasn't that low-ball and, when you throw in the transfer request, it needed to be taken seriously.  We were looking at getting 50 million quid for a lad who's been short of his best for some time now, perhaps on terminal decline and clearly not committed to the cause.  Of course we had to take their offer.  Of course we did.  We might not have had a better offer come summer.

But, the minute we decided to accept the offer, we had to fill the hole Torres would leave.  No question about it, finding another striker was top priority given how light we've been up front for a few years now and given that Suarez is untested in England.  Everything else on our wish list had to take a backseat to this new priority and the clock was ticking.  I'm sure that no one wanted to pay 35 million for Carroll but I think it's interesting we did.  Clearly he was the man we wanted and money for once was going to be no object.  I suspect we were planning a move for him in the summer but the Torres bullsh!t accelerated that time line.  We needed him now and were prepared to pay what it took to pry him lose from the Barcodes.

But, in doing so, I suspect we had to abandon some of our other transfer plans.  Other clubs were no doubt starting to take the p!ss with transfer fees once they caught wind that we would have the Torres money to spend.  I have a strong suspicion that's what happened with Adam.  Sure, we paid over the odds to land Carroll but I don't think the owners were prepared to make a habit of that with every transfer.  In addition, you can't juggle too many balls at once: I'm sure that brokering the Torres and Carroll deals ate up most of the time of the last couple of days of the window and left little opportunity to seriously negotiate other deals.  Much smarter to get the striker hole addressed and then sit tight until summer, when better prices for a wider pool of available quality players will surely allow us the best opportunity to revamp the squad responsibly.

So, I can understand a little disappointment about the transfer window but I don't think any serious criticism can be directed at the owners, who showed both their willingness to splash cash on a desired target and their discipline to sit tight and wait for better opportunities in the summer.  No, if you must criticize someone for our disappointing window criticize Fernando fecking Torres for driving a bus through our transfer game-plan at the 11th hour.  Without his selfishness we might have seen a very different set of targets landed on the last day of the window.

[Bad Bob]

my point is that we absolutely desperately needed forwards, we don't desperately need defenders. in the summer i would like to see us strengthen across the back, but we didn't need to in january. at least, not if the right players weren't available.

Good post, nice and succinct.  Oh, and spot on as well. 

[maypaxvobiscum]

the only thing that didnt happen in the jan window that should've happen was the arrival of a left-back. i know its had to prise a player of midway through the season but considering how we've got Insua, Konchesky out on loan and Ayala injured, the only 2 players who can play there are Aurelio (sicknote) and Johnson. but for how long would Johnson be happy playing in that position? otherwise, it was a very good window securing the services of 2 top strikers.

[Bad Bob]

the only thing that didnt happen in the jan window that should've happen was the arrival of a left-back. i know its had to prise a player of midway through the season but considering how we've got Insua, Konchesky out on loan and Ayala injured, the only 2 players who can play there are Aurelio (sicknote) and Johnson. but for how long would Johnson be happy playing in that position? otherwise, it was a very good window securing the services of 2 top strikers.

I'd say Agger can play there in a pinch as well.  We'll be fine until May.

[Roger Red Hat]

Had Kelly not come bounding along in the last 6 months things could've been a lot trickier. We can shuffle the defense around a little now and muddle through until May. The thing is, the last 3 games we've seen a change in our playing style. Defense looks shaky but the attack looks capable of causing havoc. Now we have lost d!ckhead up top but the aquisition of Suarez fills that hole. Then Carroll comes along and fills that hole even better and Suarez moves out wide a bit and fills that hole.

we've improved - no doubt.

[metalhead]

Look, let's be realistic about this okay?  First, as noted, it's the January window and no massive squad shake-ups happen in January for all the reasons I've discussed above.  Anyone expecting that is not grasping the realities of modern football, IMO.

But, going beyond that for a minute...let's look at our particular situation this transfer window.  The club was obviously negotiating to bring in both Suarez and Adam.  That much we know for sure.  According to rumours, we might well have also been inquiring about Ashley Young and Stephen Warnock but we can't be quite so certain about those.  Anyway, we were proceeding as you do in January (and as you do once more under Dalglish at Liverpool): quietly negotiating behind the scenes, trying to get our main targets without giving away the farm.  The grumblings coming from both Ajax and Blackpool attest to the fact that we were after their main men in a committed but prudent way, slowly advancing negotiations.  Indeed, we accomplished what we set out to do with Saurez and I think we were probably getting close with Adam too.

Then, wham, in comes Chelsea with the Torres bid and he blindsides us with the transfer request with 3 days left in the fooking window.  This upset the whole applecart my friends.  Now, if Chelsea had really low-balled it, we could have told them to feck off...even with Nando's transfer request.  No point letting go of the lad for cheap right?  We would have knocked the chavs' offer back and told Torres to get his head down until the end of the season.  But, Chelsea's offer wasn't that low-ball and, when you throw in the transfer request, it needed to be taken seriously.  We were looking at getting 50 million quid for a lad who's been short of his best for some time now, perhaps on terminal decline and clearly not committed to the cause.  Of course we had to take their offer.  Of course we did.  We might not have had a better offer come summer.

But, the minute we decided to accept the offer, we had to fill the hole Torres would leave.  No question about it, finding another striker was top priority given how light we've been up front for a few years now and given that Suarez is untested in England.  Everything else on our wish list had to take a backseat to this new priority and the clock was ticking.  I'm sure that no one wanted to pay 35 million for Carroll but I think it's interesting we did.  Clearly he was the man we wanted and money for once was going to be no object.  I suspect we were planning a move for him in the summer but the Torres bullsh!t accelerated that time line.  We needed him now and were prepared to pay what it took to pry him lose from the Barcodes.

But, in doing so, I suspect we had to abandon some of our other transfer plans.  Other clubs were no doubt starting to take the p!ss with transfer fees once they caught wind that we would have the Torres money to spend.  I have a strong suspicion that's what happened with Adam.  Sure, we paid over the odds to land Carroll but I don't think the owners were prepared to make a habit of that with every transfer.  In addition, you can't juggle too many balls at once: I'm sure that brokering the Torres and Carroll deals ate up most of the time of the last couple of days of the window and left little opportunity to seriously negotiate other deals.  Much smarter to get the striker hole addressed and then sit tight until summer, when better prices for a wider pool of available quality players will surely allow us the best opportunity to revamp the squad responsibly.

So, I can understand a little disappointment about the transfer window but I don't think any serious criticism can be directed at the owners, who showed both their willingness to splash cash on a desired target and their discipline to sit tight and wait for better opportunities in the summer.  No, if you must criticize someone for our disappointing window criticize Fernando fecking Torres for driving a bus through our transfer game-plan at the 11th hour.  Without his selfishness we might have seen a very different set of targets landed on the last day of the window.

spot on

[Kharhaz]

We needed him now and were prepared to pay what it took to pry him lose from the Barcodes.

Its "loose" not "lose"     

The rest is, as has been said, spot on. Judas changed everything when he handed in his request and has been said, you dont turn down £50 million for a player that, on recent form, doesnt command that ridiculous amount of money.

[ethanr]

I was happy with what we did. You don't want to go buy 5 players in January, you will be paying too much for too many players.  We really needed a second striker, so we bought Suarez.  We were looking at Adam because the owners were willing to speed up the rebuilding process a bit.  When Torres was leaving, we needed another striker, so we bought Carroll.  We still need some other players, but we have people who can hold the positions until summer.  In summer, we will invest much more.  I'm assuming we will probably be looking at 2 wingers and a CB, if not 2 CB and a LB.

They way I look at it, we spent 58 million pounds in this transfer window.  We sold 56 million pounds worth of players, so the owners only spent 2 million pounds.

They basically said we would have up to 35 in January and even more in summer if I'm not mistaken?

So possibly we could have the 33 left from January and 40 more, we could be looking at spending 75 million pounds in the summer, plus the sale of maybe a few deadweight players, we may have 80 million pounds so spend.  We could target some great wingers, Ashley Young and maybe a player like Jesus Navas, a great LB and some great CBs and maybe even get a bit of depth in the squad.  We could be full ready to mount a title challenge depending how soon we buy the players and how well they gel.

[PabloMedina28]

We replaced an injury-prone player whos best days are behind him and didnt want to be here, albeit world class on his day but those became a one off with 2 top quality strikers whos combined efforts will give us more options and more balance to the team. They are younger and hungry to prove a point. Both in my opinion can become world class as what they do. Suarez alone will make sure we dont miss the goals that Torres gave us. Carroll will mean we are now a major threat from corners and set pieces, we will also be able to defend them better.

Yes getting Adam, a winger, a centre back and a left back would of been ideal and people suggesting we could of acted on these areas have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. But overall im very happy with how things have gone.

Bring on the summer when the proper rebuilding begins YNWA