Liverpool FC Forum

by **Redrider** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:11 pm

Bigmick,
Its good to read your straight forward common sense here. I get fed up reading all this give it time stuff. That's what's been going on for the last 5 years, we have put up with too much mediocrity. Wasted too much money etc.
It's also good to get away from this attitude of don't complain, it will all come good. Let's start identifying the potential weak areas and addressing them.

by **lfc4life** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:31 pm

Redtribe, I couldnt agree more! The whole system of the long thru ball is too shitty to make anyone be able to play. This was the same thing with Heskey - Long ball, a knockdown by Heskey to Owne and a goal...that is the old english game. We are playing real continental opposition, players must have ball possession, create space and then make pin point killer passes! We are playing real rubbish, and any player good or bad cant cope. Let us see Raf do something!!!! :angry:

Otherwise we will keep on accusing our players of being bad yet when we acquired them...they were the bomb:cool:

by **The_Rock** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:28 pm

I don't wanna jump on the "cisse not good enuff" bandwagon, but i really don't think RB would have bought him if he had a choice. But i really do hope cisse comes good. He has all the tools needed. He just has to impose himself more and not expect to be spoon-feeded.

by **taff** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:40 pm

Redrider wrote:Bigmick,
Its good to read your straight forward common sense here. I get fed up reading all this give it time stuff. That's what's been going on for the last 5 years, we have put up with too much mediocrity. Wasted too much money etc.
It's also good to get away from this attitude of don't complain, it will all come good. Let's start identifying the potential weak areas and addressing them.

Fair enough but its crazy talk with only a few games gone to get rid of him now would be insane

Time ran out for Houllier and a few players as well but Cisse is brand new

Now if it was shall we have Diouf back thats a different matter

What do you want buy or sell players after a few games

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:43 pm

bigmick wrote:That said my belief at this early stage is that we've massively overpaid for his talents and he is a classic Houllier signing.

some fans are un-f#ckingbelievable :angry:

by **Redrider** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:41 pm

I think the sale of Heskey and the loss of Owen has left Rafa with a limited set of options up front. Cisse on paper looked to have the skills for the lead role : Fast, good control and sharp in the box. But unfortunately, he is not strong enough and as a result does not get stuck in and lead the line.
Baros is a foil player and works alongside or as an alternate to a main man, again he can not lead the line.
It's nice to have Baros and Cisse but we don't need both. We desparately need a strong front man and we will probably have to sell one of the existing pair to fund a new man.
I am sorry to criticise Cisse, he probably dosn't derserve it, but he is not worth £14m, we have been taken for ride in the buying department.
Like I have said in other posts, it's about time we stopped shopping at 'Car Boot Sales' hoping to un-earth another 'nugget', let's go out and buy the fiinished jewelry !! We have wasted £100m on un-cut diamonds that turned out to be flawed stones. We could have purchased 4 or 5 proven jewels for that money.
:blues:

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:46 pm

To be fair lads, I've not advocated selling Cisse in any of my posts. For one thing the windows not open and for another, we would struggle at this point to get half our money back. Clearly, now we've bought him we have to stick with him for a season at least. That doesn't mean however that we are not allowed to voice an opinion on his relative worth. It's everyones choice when to voice an opinion. If you want to wait for a season or so before giving your opinion then that's your privilage. Obviously, the longer you leave it the more the likelyhood is that you will be proven correct. For instance not many on the forum would claim with the benefit of hindsight that Diouf was good value at 10 mill. He did though score a couple on his league debut so many of us probably thought it was gonna work. The earlier you post your opinion, the more chance you have of getting it totally wrong and being ridiculed. I'm sticking my neck out really early and saying the blokes a wrong 'un in my opinion.
It's not disloyalty it's just an opinion based on watching him only a few times. I also think Alonso, Garcia and Josemi are good buys based on very little information. Ultimately Djbril Cisse doesn't give a monkeys what my opinion is, nor does anyone else for that matter. In the end though, I'm entitled to it and would love to be laughed at when he bangs tons of goals in. :blues:

by **Redrider** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:11 pm

Keep it up mick, too many people on this web site wan't to gloss over the failings and give it time to get better, provide support, don't panic the players etc.
Geez it's flickin' obvious we have wasted about £10m on Cisse and we are probably condemmed to paying him £2m a year for the next 5 years, when we have scarce resources.
Equally it's obvious that Alonso, Garcia and Josemi have the 'right stuff' and were bought at somthing more like the right price.
One of either Baros or Cisse will leave in January, to be replaced by AN Other and I suspect it simply be the man for whom we can get the best price.

by **kindaconfused** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:18 pm

Rooney at £30m and Cisse at £14m I know what I think is value for money.

Sorry to harp on about it but the buying and selling of players will break or make a club and unless we get it right w'ere doomed.

Do we know for sure that Raf does the buyin and sellin or is that someone else al la Real Madred? Some managers spot a player and get someone else to do the negotiations.

I've done negotiations for years as part of my job and it so important to get things right or it costs you so much money.

An aside Reo was originally going to be sold for £20m until the Chairman stepped in and upped it to £30m.

Beckham was paid the money not for his footballing skills but for his marketability which meant he went for a song (£27m?).

The dynamics of the deal is important and perhaps the managers dont have the skills for the negotiations?

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:36 pm

In fairness, Rooney at almost whatever price you could mention represents zero on the gamble scale. At his age and ability, provided you get him on a long enough deal you are practically guaranteed to get your money back in a future transfer to one of the big Spanish outfits provided he doesn't get a long term injury. It disappoints me when we constantly tried to be clever in the past in the transfer market. Why not just buy less players, but ones which we all know are top-quality?
We need a centre-half? Ledley King, there you go. Pace, power, youth all in one. Would cost about 10-15 mill. Need a wide man? Damien Duff, ditto ditto ditto, about the same money. Need a striker? Defoe, mind you, you need deep pockets for this one. 20 mill and he's yours guvnor. If we haven't got the cash for Defoe, try Forsell at about 6 mill. If we can get comparable quality cheaper on the continent then fine but I hope we've seen the last of these nobodies on fat contracts sucking the resources out of the club.

by **Dalglish** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:18 am

stmichael wrote:
bigmick wrote:That said my belief at this early stage is that we've massively overpaid for his talents and he is a classic Houllier signing.

some fans are un-f#ckingbelievable

Other "Classic" Houllier signings ....... Hyppia, Maccallister, Rise, Le Tellac, Hamann, Dudek and Kirkland :Oo:

I know ......let's blame Houllier cos it's the popular thing to do in there

Ciisse will stand or fall on his own and as for "Benitez probabbly wouldn't have bought him" , he tried to sign him whilst manager at Valencia :glare:

by **LFC #1** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:51 am

too true Ian, Cisse has bags of talent - he showed this in France where he scored more gaols thatn the likes of Drogba, Morientes etc.

England is a better league than France for sure, but a man who can be the leading goal scorer for 2 yrs running in a good league like that has to be a bit good.

I am getting sick of saying this but we are only 1 1/2 months into the new season and I think any negative judgement of a player now is a bit unfair.

by **Dalglish** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:06 am

hiya mate, agree totally with your comments. Pity that in these days iof "instant" success expected asnd then demanded the knioves are already out for some of the new players

Cisse should come good but needs time to adjust to the new team and the new style in the prem.

by **A.B.** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:11 am

I don't know why some of you expected 10 goals in 6 games from Cisse in his first season in the Premiership. Which is why some of you are disapointed.

I've said this countless times. Reyes,Pires and even Henry struggled in the Premiership when they started, it will take more than 6 league games.

by **vlady16.1** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:24 am

sorry -- for the tab the man had to make an impact immediatly--- its fairly obvious that he is not -- i admit i am ignorant and haven't seen all the games but he looks awful -- at 14 million -- give me a break -- problem is we have to pray he get it together or financially were toast -- blame houllier ---damn right -- he overpaid again and got a "talent" not a player

before you guys slag me i hope i'm an idiot and wrong -- god i hope i'm wrong -- paying top dollar for a player from a ****** league is a loser's game -- alonso et al look good and that makes my point

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I know it's too early to say but..... - Is cisse any good?

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