Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:19 pm

I posted three weeks ago about Cisse. Got absolutely blasted which is fair enough and after all what banter is all about. I said at the time that I've made a judgement which may or may not be proven wrong. I said that he was ok but we had paid way over the odds for him. I've seen him a couple of times since and to be fair he has done a little better. I thought he was fitfully threatening at fulham on Saturday and looked a little fitter than before.
Still sticking to my judgement though. In my view he's a 4 mill player with potential whom we've just broke the bank for. I noticed when I asked the question before that nobody was prepared to go out on a limb and put their reputation on the line and say they were confident that he would prove a good buy at the price. Will anybody do so now?
In the spirit of the subject I'll make yet another rash, early call. Garcia, despite his recent indifferent away performances ( he was no better than average at Fulham on Saturday IMHO) will prove to be a steal at 6 mill. All about opinions this game lads and they're mine. Come on, you're allowed to have one as well. Nobody's gonna shoot you if you're wrong, what do you think?

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:25 pm

cisse- won't set the world on fire this season as some people were expecting. i still expect him to score 15-20 goals though. what i noticed on saturday which was encouraging was that he was prepared to run the channels a lot more to create space for others in the middle. i always said 14m was a lot to pa but it was houllier who did the business so what do you expect? :Oo:

garcia- looks extremely good at home when he plays off of one main striker. needs to beef up a bit though and stop trying all these fancy flicks when he gets the ball. it may work against the likes of west brom and norwich but against the likes of manure and chelsea it won't. however at 6m you can't really argue. he'll have more good games than bad.

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:39 pm

If you showed a video of any game this season to a 'man from mars' and said we paid £14m for one player and £6m for the other and then asked him to make a relative judgement and say which one was worth the £14m etc.
He would surely say £14m Garcia and £6m Cisse and in all honesty I can not ever see the order being reversed.

by **kazza** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:57 pm

stmichael wrote:garcia- looks extremely good at home when he plays off of one main striker. needs to beef up a bit though and stop trying all these fancy flicks when he gets the ball. it may work against the likes of west brom and norwich but against the likes of manure and chelsea it won't. however at 6m you can't really argue. he'll have more good games than bad.

I think the flicks are a big part of his game, and is that difference that he brings. Although it may not always work, it is always a possibility in the defenders head and sets up the other things he does. My oppinion.

by **Redtribe** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:03 pm

kazza wrote:
stmichael wrote:garcia- looks extremely good at home when he plays off of one main striker. needs to beef up a bit though and stop trying all these fancy flicks when he gets the ball. it may work against the likes of west brom and norwich but against the likes of manure and chelsea it won't. however at 6m you can't really argue. he'll have more good games than bad.

I think the flicks are a big part of his game, and is that difference that he brings. Although it may not always work, it is always a possibility in the defenders head and sets up the other things he does. My oppinion.

very true kazza

The fact is the opposing defence is caused to be extra vigile

by **Paul C** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:30 pm

We bought Cisse to sscore goals but all he's doing at the moment is looking like a thinner Heskey, fook running the channels we need to put the ball in the net!!!! :angry:

Sorry I'm in a nasty b3stard mood at the moment

by **The_Rock** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:10 pm

To be fair to cisse, our flank service has not been really good. So far we had an out-of-form kewell, finnan, young warnock & riise on our flanks for most of this season. Only now, we have started with garcia at right. Once rafa sorts the wingers out, cisse should loads of goals score.

I also compare cisse with yakubu (did i spell rite ?) of portsmouth. 1st half of last season, he was a clown. Eventually he came good and started scoring goals. Cisse is at least thrice better than him. So he has to come good...... :suspect:

by **African-red** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:18 pm

I am really optimistic about Cisse and I think he will prove his worth maybe next season. But I think he will have good games this season and score gaols if he plays with the attitude he played with on Saturday. On another note I still think no one in the current team is reading how he wants the ball passed to him. He needs long passes and no one is confident to try those at this moment. I believe as soon as Gerrard gets back Cisse will be getting the long passes to run to and leave defenders gasping for air. Did you guys see how he won the ball against Van der Sar? He needs balls that he can exert his main weapon: Speed. Currently no one is supplying them. I am really looking forward to Gerrard getting back.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:00 pm

i dont think he will really show what he' s capable of till next season. i look at all the foreign players that are doing well in other teams and none of them have settled straight away.

O.K. thats a lie but there's only 2 situations where players perform right away. one is at somewhere like Liverpool where Benitez buys a spanish player who he knows everything about, and will do exactly what told to do.
the only other sitaution where strikers hit the gorund running is when they join for a club like Arsenal or Man U and the team already has a well oiled machine, which they ony have to fit into, and even then this doesnt happen all the time.

Cisse isnt just adapting to the prem but to a newly built team aswell. dont get me wrong, he is annoying me cos he's not his great player that i expected, but thats my fault for hyping him so much, and its the same for all of us. we expect alot and the price tag doesnt help.

some of you mighnt agree and choose to say "f*ck that i'm not waiting for £14 million of striker to perform. i want it now blah blah."
but i think thats just what wee're gonna have to do. waiting a full season is a killer and agonisingly frustrating, esp pre-season, but its a choice of doin that or givin players like Cisse endless jibes and maybe even ruining his confidence.

by **Thinkpad** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:06 pm

African-red wrote:I am really optimistic about Cisse and I think he will prove his worth maybe next season. But I think he will have good games this season and score gaols if he plays with the attitude he played with on Saturday. On another note I still think no one in the current team is reading how he wants the ball passed to him. He needs long passes and no one is confident to try those at this moment. I believe as soon as Gerrard gets back Cisse will be getting the long passes to run to and leave defenders gasping for air. Did you guys see how he won the ball against Van der Sar? He needs balls that he can exert his main weapon: Speed. Currently no one is supplying them. I am really looking forward to Gerrard getting back.

OMG!!!!!

Are we going to start pumping balls up in defense and hope oyur strikers over run defenders to score?

???
OMG!!!!! :Oo:

This is most depressing to know we only have speed skill..
So Liverpool is not going to develop their basic skill like:
Passing...
Dribbling...
Crossing...
What we need are midfielders with strong legs to pump the ball up for our quick strikers to score... yipeee... We are going to score loads of goals and beat every opponents with this ingenious tactic...

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:10 pm

Cisse, will never be anything other than a ''support striker'' to be used as an alternative to the main man. I reckon we have a 2004 version of Carrot Head Fairclough, the Super-Sub.
Equally Baros, will always play a support role, sniffing around and feeding off the mayhem created by the main man.
Currently, we do not have the main man on our books and I don't think that Rafa thinks that Owen was or is, cut out for that role.
Perhaps, it is Morientes, who knows ? Probably at this time only Rafa and the men who hold the purse strings.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:23 pm

all this main man business i dont understand.
its a nice theory but you dont really need it. it reminds me of the olf fashioned british thing of "the big striker that knocks them down for the little fellar to bang them in."

i agree you cant have 2 strikers makin the same runs but i dont think Baros and Cisse are that similar at all.

if you've got 2 good strikers you should score goals, and you should be able to coach them if anything doesnt really add up.

it's not as simple as that i know but in the case of Baros and Cisse they will come good given time, they are two good strikers.

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:39 pm

BIG jim,
I guess my theories come from the LFC tradition of two men up front, Hunt & St John, Hateley & Alun Evans, Toshack & Keegan, Rush & Dalglish, Collymore & Fowler, Owen & Heskey etc.
Allways with contrasting styles and one feeding off the other.
Somehow, I can't see Baros and Cisse as a pair and equally I find it hard to say who I would prefer out of the two, to be the one to keep, when I look for a new man.
I guess it would depend upon the style of the new man, but my best guess is use Baros as support, kinda Keegan style, with Cisse retained as a sub, for an alternative approach.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:09 pm

yeah you're right those partnerships were great, but a few points:

Owen and Heskey didnt work. if it ever did, it was cos Michael Owen was a world class player, whoever he would have played with he'd have still been slotting them. Heskey was hot and cold (more cold), ironically it was this partnership that was part of our downfall.Houllier continued to use it at Anfield, and, being more of a defensive option, our home results and performances were woeful. Remember when we were all calling for Baros to continue his run only for Houllier to replace him with an %80 fit Owen or Heskey?

also, just cos the partnerships you mentioned work it doesnt mean that others dont. this pains me to say but how devastating were Yorke and Cole? no way would they fit into the afore-mentioned category. they were just 2 good strikers, in a good team.

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:35 pm

Jim,
you are bang on right, some of the partnerships I mentioned were better than others and Owen & Heskey never realised it's potential, when on paper it looks tremendous. I guess Heskey just never got in there with his main asset of size and strength and Owen suffered too many injuries.
Yorke and Cole, I couldn't comment, but Nistelroy & Shrek looks tasty.
This has the makings of a new topic- 'partnerships past and present'

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