Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:17 pm

Perhaps it's because Lucas actually WAS muck tonight ? Missed passes, late tackles, a feckin' Brasilian missing a free header in the 6 yard box !! I mean, the guy had a mare of a game.....and that was just the 5 or 6 minutes when the game didn't pass him by.....
Aurelio was cack as well though...so Lucas was not alone.

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:17 pm

Ciggy wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Would everybody here please just shut the phuck up about Alonso. He's gone, end of. Deal with it.

Its easier said than done when he controlled our play for 5 years and now he has gone, and some average midfielder on the lines of Jimmy Bullard has come in and taken his place.
How do you deal with that?

In fairness Lynds I think when he's fit, Bullard is much the better fooballer.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:17 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:rafa must take a lot of the blame tonight for playing aurelio in the middle and not gerrard . He messed up there simple as . Now i dont normally have a pop at him but this time he messed up with his selection and must take it on the chin and not play aurelio in the middle again . If he wanted aurelio to play then he should of played in his proper position out left . You dont need to off seen the game to suggest that .

I sense a movement towards the darkside Padawan

lol not yet mate . He made a mistake tonight but the players he picked also let themselves down so they all get the blame with rafa taking a big hit for his selection .

by **aCe'** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:20 pm

GYBS wrote:and playing lucas in the centre hasnt harmed us in the prem but now it does harm us ? Maybe we should look at who he is partnered with ? Last couple of games lucas has played well alongside gerrard and that shouldnt of changed .

hasnt harmed us in the league ?
Against the sht sides some players are carried, as was the case with Lucas, probably could have played 10men against the sides we beat and still come out with the 3points... against any sort of decent opposition with good CMs when hes handed the responsibility of taking the ball out from the back hes failed miserably.. as far as im concerned hes an absolute waste of space and i dont think hes half the player Jimmy Bullard is.. Only reason Rafa played Aurelio as far as i can tell is because of his passing range... Aurelio, for all his mistakes tonight, was the only player down the middle who provided the attacking players with balls from deep, few as they might have been...
Put simply, Lucas is a liability and he doesnt get the job hes asked to do done.. absolutely no reason to play him if we have two better CMs available on a given day (Masch, Gerrard, Aquilani)...

And still the biggest question for the night... where was Riera ?! we didnt have any players besides Torres and Gerrard at times moving with the ball and Benny was poor for 90mins.... why wasnt he started ? why wasnt he the first sub on the night at halftime ?

As far as im concerned.. Rafa gets all the blame for this game... tactically in Europe, hes usually one of the best if not the best around.. tonight was just a big mess and hopefully he gets his tactics sorted before the Chelsea game...

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:23 pm

GYBS wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
GYBS wrote:and playing lucas in the centre hasnt harmed us in the prem but now it does harm us ? Maybe we should look at who he is partnered with ? Last couple of games lucas has played well alongside gerrard and that shouldnt of changed .

Oh god I give up, he is feckin shabite end of.

if he is that poor then how come you havent been complaining during the winning run we have been on lately with him in the centre of the park during each of those games

I think in terms of the "winning run" we've been on, it's worth pointing out that we haven't really played anyone of note during that period. Each and every time we've had even a slightly tricky game (Bolton Away, West Ham away) we have got over the line but only just.

It's also as far as Lucas is concerned worth pointing out that he's got Steven Gerrard playing alongside him. i would suggest if your playing Hull at Home with Gerrard alongside you, most midfielders would look quite good. He's not terrible, but he's not very good either.

The first time for a few matches tonight that Garrard hasn't been there to babysit him, Lucas was by all accounts not very good again. I've a suspicion this is a pattern which will be repeated should we persist with the policy of moving the captain around.

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:24 pm

I'm absolutely dreading the thought of Anelka and Drogba running at Carra and Skrtel. Jesus, I'm gonna have nightmares tonight about that prospect. And on that note, it's a goodnight from me......and hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow and realise this evening was all just a bad dream....

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:24 pm

the problem with Lucas lol i feel like Marge Proops here , well lets just say he plays the ball side to side ,THATS IT

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:27 pm

An its goodnight from him an goodnight from me,

Me husband has said ive got to go to bed :;):

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:30 pm

Ciggy wrote:
bigmick wrote:Coming back to Lynds' question the simple answer is that I don't know. I haven't seen any of the game and I know feck all about Fiorentina as a team, so I haven't got a magic solution.

Not having a go Mick but why make a comment why you havent seen the game?

Unfair on Rafa no? Mash is in Liverpool having treatment, Plessis and Spearing would have been out of their depth and Aurelio has played half a game against Leeds, just curious as who you would have prefered in midfield with your digs to Rafa. Our biggest loss to our CL squad is Xabi Alonso and he will be sorely missed we may not get very far this year due to his departure.

But Rafa was not to blame tonight I would say it if that was the case, but he wasnt, our players thought they only needed to turn up tonight and to blame Rafa for that shambles is a mistake, I can blame Rafa for one thing and that is why he continues to play Lucas when he is not good enough to play for Liverpool football club and thats it.

Fair enough Lynds but I did say that I hadn't seen the match at the start. That said, I also said a few days back in the "Can Aurelio play in central midfield" thread that the answer was no, pure and simple. I saw him play there against Portsmouth Away last season, and although we eventually won the game 3-2 with two goals in the last 90 seconds, I wasn't impressed with Aurelio in the centre. He is the best left-back at the club by a mile so I'd go out on a limb and play him at left back.

by **Scottbot** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:48 pm

My take on a game that I found myself strangley calm and unbothered about when compared to our league fixtures:

- They played very well in the first half, they were well organised. got behind the ball and pressed in the right areas as we got closer to their goal. they were excellent going forward, the lad with the poodle head and theatrical falls was excellent tonight and Mutu's played an intelligent game up-front.

- We were poor in the first half, we looked laboured in possession, there was no tempo to our passing and our movement off the ball was no-existent.

- 2nd half was much better, we had a real purple patch for 20 minutes or so, we got a bit of zip in our passing game, got the captain on the ball but couldn't get the crucial goal to really put them on the back foot. Lucas's free header from the corner was the biggest chance but there were several other (albeit slightly more difficult) chances.

Must admit I wanted Gerrard back in the middle for this one and more so as the 1st half went on and he became more and more isolated. Notic ein the 2nd half he spent some time on the right and saw far more of the ball. I didn't have too many problems playing Aurelio in CM, I wouldn't have been keen if we were away to Bolton but in a champs league game against Italian opposition it was less of a deal. I just wish Rafa would have made the change (Insua off and Aurelio back to LB) sooner. Not sure what is going on with Riera, made no sense to me to leave him on the bench as Yossi had completely faded from the game.

There a good side and this was never gonna be an easy game. I just can't seem to get too excited about the Champions League this season, at least not yet, it's all about the Chelsea game.

As for Alonso, i'm past that now, I watched the game with two fellow reds tonight and we only mentioned him because we were speculating about all the lazy journalists dragging his name up again as a result of this defeat. the way I see it, he's gone, I'm over it, and hurry the fook up Aquillani!!!

Bring on Sunday!

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:06 am

terrible team selection tonight by rafa, i mean really bewildering. I mean Lucas is terrible as it is let alone with a left back playing alongside him! couldnt get my head round that one at all, especially considering that aurelio has just come back from a bad injury. Should of had Gerrard in the centre with benayoun behind Torres with Riera on the left, as far as i know he wasnt suffering from any injurys.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:47 am

bunglemark2 wrote:I'm absolutely dreading the thought of Anelka and Drogba running at Carra and Skrtel. Jesus, I'm gonna have nightmares tonight about that prospect. And on that note, it's a goodnight from me......and hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow and realise this evening was all just a bad dream....

If we don't massively improve, they could embarrass us with a 4 nil thrashing. Not looking forward to Sunday at all.

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:08 am

Fowler_E7 wrote:terrible team selection tonight by rafa, i mean really bewildering. I mean Lucas is terrible as it is let alone with a left back playing alongside him! couldnt get my head round that one at all, especially considering that aurelio has just come back from a bad injury. Should of had Gerrard in the centre with benayoun behind Torres with Riera on the left, as far as i know he wasnt suffering from any injurys.

Spot on mate.
Lucas has done OK this year but to put him in away in a tricky game with Aurellio (who is not fit) as his partner was strange.
It allowed them to dictate the whole first half get there lead and defend with every man behind the ball in the second.
We actually played ok second hald and Aurellio when not been pressed and with the game slowed down played well.
But the game was gone then.
Same team should have started without doubt.

Dont hand over the initiative to the opposition at the start of the match.
When will we ever learn ?

by **only me** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:25 am

yes i admit it - haven't seen the game....

But as soon as my friends told me Aurellio and Lucas were opening Center Fields i could take an educated guess we where heading to the crapper....as i strongly believe neither Lucas nor Aurellio are Liverpool material it only saddens me to see our celebrated manager keep pulling those dead rabbits out of his sleeves...

I have a hunch Rafa wanted to settle for a draw before the Chelski game ,now he is without any points and shattered confidence before Sunday..Rafa keeps outsmarting himself and costing us points.

Yes i haven't seen the game...

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:07 am

only me wrote:now he is without any points and shattered confidence before Sunday

I don't know about "shattered confidence" mate to be honest. Yes it would have been nice to get a result, but we'll still qualify no bother and I'm fairly sure that the players will be able to get things going again for the Chelsea match.

The one kind of ongoing thing which I could see potentially impacting would be that I'm fairly sure Rafa intends to go into the Chelsea match with the Lucas/Masherano axis restored. I've no real problem with that in that if we intend to go into the game and keep it tight/sit in more than usual (which we surely do) then the pairing has some things going for it. the only problem now is that for the third time this season out of four attempts, we have demonstrated quite graphically that we aren't as good a team when Gerrard isn't in there to babysit he central midfielder(s). Given that, the memories of the exactly how bad we have been in his absense have probably been freshened up a bit by this result and performance.

I still think Rafa will play the same way, albeit with Gerrard drawn in to make it effectively a 4-5-1, and I think we should be OK. I actually worry more about us handling set plays against Chelsea than I do any other aspect of their play. I still go for 1-1, and to comfortably qualify for the next bit of the Champions League circus.

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