Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

I personally believe Rafa was just trying to make an excuse for a poor decision that may have cost us two points. If Rafa after seeing Torres and Voronin play and train for 5 mins couldn't tell the difference in class he wouldn't be a top coach and manager but a bus driver.

[LFC2007]

He had faith that a team without Torres in it could beat Birmingham city. As far as I can deduce, the 'between the lines' argument is merely a small, insignifcant part of Rafa's reasoning to play him. It by no means constituted the main reason to play Voronin or Kuyt as opposed to Torres.

He took a gamble, and it's fair enough to say we'd have had a better chance of winning had Torres played, but equally, we've played a few games in which Torres has started, and we've performed very poorly. To imply as much as 'we would have won the game but for the omission of Torres' is simply utter sh!te, IMO.

That is why I can't accept this perpetual notion that a significant part of the reason we haven't challenged is due to Torres' omission in two games.

[account deleted by request]

That Torres didn't start in two games didn't cost us the league, but it was another error by Rafa in a list of errors that certainly didn't help our cause. At the end of the day maybe we wern't quite good enough but errors such as not getting a CB till Christmas, some strange formations, the fiasco at Reading etc certainly didn't help. I also believe it shifted the focus of our season again from the league to the CL.

If players see their best striker and best players rested or taken off in league games so that they are fitter for CL games, maybe they begin to think the CL is more important?

[LFC2007]

It means Rafa had faith in his squad, that's all.

[maguskwt]

"With that fella we're going to bring, we'll have no less than 4 options to configure the midfield"



"Yes, I brought Torres, yes he's pretty good, but I'll pull him off the  starting eleven, just for the sake of it".



"Now those Spaniards are off to Austria, we can speak some decent english, hehe" (Players agree)

for the last one... there's torres and alonso in it!

[account deleted by request]

It means Rafa had faith in his squad, that's all.

Why?    Torres started 29 games and came on as a sub in 4 games, 3 of which we drew and the other that we won against Fulham he came on and scored our first.

He didn't start against Blackburn draw, Birmingham draw, Portsmouth draw, Arsenal draw, and came off at half time in the Arsenal home game when we were leading.... finished a draw. Chelsea ? you guessed it Draw, Birmingham away draw.

Chelsea LC - didn't play lost

He didn't play against Luton away .... Draw
He didn't play against Barnsley  lost 

I am not saying we would have won all those games if Torres had played........ just that there is not a lot there to give much faith in the squad

[The_Rock]

1)
To imply as much as 'we would have won the game but for the omission of Torres' is simply utter sh!te, IMO.

2)
As far as I can deduce, the 'between the lines' argument is merely a small, insignifcant part of Rafa's reasoning to play him.

You are utter sh1t IMO..... 

You said rafa didn't say that Voronin is better at playing between the lines than Torres...well ....he did say voronin is the best striker to play between the lines did he ...?


As for point 2....all of a sudden you are rafa's PR man ? 

This just proves you are full of $hit........ M0R0N....

[account deleted by request]

I agree with The Rock, when asked why he hadn't played Torres against Birmingham he didn't say he had faith that the team could win without Torres or that he had underestimated Torres or over estimated Voronin, or that it was an insignificant small part of his decision, he said :-

" Today was a difficult day because they were deep, narrow and compact and it's not easy to find spaces. You must be clever and try to play a different way," said Benítez. "I think that between the lines the best striker we have could be Voronin because he has movement, ability and technique."

[Sabre]

Fair enough S@int, a quote is a quote.

But I agree LFC2007. Rafa knows Torres perfectly well, he signed him up. And until this season he had reasons to think Torres struggled to play against deep defences. The reason is simple, his past. I thought the same way. But in England, deep defences or not, the game is more continous, there are less interruptions, and that seems to have been very important for Torres' game.

LFC2007's recent quotes on being a surprise most of goals coming in Anfield proves Rafa thought that way, as normally teams come to defend deeply here.

Back in September, with Voronin in a good form and being a new signing, he took a decission, ok, a mistake. I don't know any manager who doesn't make mistakes.

That doesn't mean most of the points we lost were due to decissions like this, and it remains to be seen btw that should Torres had played we would have won against Birmingham.

BTW, I think it's better to discuss without resorting to name calling, The Rock knows well what LFC or me think about him and viceversa, so no big news. Let's keep it about football.

[heimdall]

It's also worth remembering that Torres wasn't rested against Birmingham, he was left out because "Voronin is better at playing between the lines". Ridiculous.

It'd probably be more accurate to say that Rafa had faith that a team without Torres in it could beat Birmingham City at home. The between the lines argument* was part of it, but a small part of it as with hindsight he was admittedly surprised at Torres' success, particularly at home i.e. you could say he underestimated Torres' ability early on. This was also at a point in time where Voronin's true (sh!te) ability hadn't quite been fully revealed, he'd scored a good goal against Toulouse and also against Sunderland prior to the Birmingham game.

*I don't think he actually said 'Voronin is better at playing between the lines than Torres'.

Just trying to add a touch of perspective, not that I agreed with the decision btw.

Regarding Sammy Lee's appointment, I am not exactly over-excited. He was a joke as a manager so I can't see him contributing much and he hasn't really ever set the world alight with his coaching prowess either but at least there will be someone to back Rafa up all the time and massage his ego by telling him he's a genius and doing a great job.

Bellend 

Another insightful, thought provoking post from you, you are a credit to moronic rose tinted wits everywhere.

How could anybody ever think that Voronin would be a better option at anything except sporting a truly horrendous 80's style ponytail!

[heimdall]

Fair enough S@int, a quote is a quote.

But I agree LFC2007. Rafa knows Torres perfectly well, he signed him up. And until this season he had reasons to think Torres struggled to play against deep defences. The reason is simple, his past. I thought the same way. But in England, deep defences or not, the game is more continous, there are less interruptions, and that seems to have been very important for Torres' game.

LFC2007's recent quotes on being a surprise most of goals coming in Anfield proves Rafa thought that way, as normally teams come to defend deeply here.

Back in September, with Voronin in a good form and being a new signing, he took a decission, ok, a mistake. I don't know any manager who doesn't make mistakes.

That doesn't mean most of the points we lost were due to decissions like this, and it remains to be seen btw that should Torres had played we would have won against Birmingham.

BTW, I think it's better to discuss without resorting to name calling, The Rock knows well what LFC or me think about him and viceversa, so no big news. Let's keep it about football.

A shame you never criticise your friends about name calling Sabre. LFC2007 is constantly name calling and being abusive but never ever gets criticised for it.

[Sabre]

In this case I find a difference between saying you talk shíte, and you ARE shíte.

In other cases I remember to have told LFC2007 to calm down, even asked that him by private message. But as of late I don't remember him much of that name calling.

I like you Heimdall despite you super anti Rafa , among other reasons because you never insult!!

[account deleted by request]

Fair enough S@int, a quote is a quote.

But I agree LFC2007. Rafa knows Torres perfectly well, he signed him up. And until this season he had reasons to think Torres struggled to play against deep defences. The reason is simple, his past. I thought the same way. But in England, deep defences or not, the game is more continous, there are less interruptions, and that seems to have been very important for Torres' game.

LFC2007's recent quotes on being a surprise most of goals coming in Anfield proves Rafa thought that way, as normally teams come to defend deeply here.

Back in September, with Voronin in a good form and being a new signing, he took a decission, ok, a mistake. I don't know any manager who doesn't make mistakes.

That doesn't mean most of the points we lost were due to decissions like this, and it remains to be seen btw that should Torres had played we would have won against Birmingham.

BTW, I think it's better to discuss without resorting to name calling, The Rock knows well what LFC or me think about him and viceversa, so no big news. Let's keep it about football.

I haven't called anyone a name Sabre?

I think you will find LFC2007 called Heimdall a name, but I suppose as usual you didn't see that?

All I have done is argue football.

[Number 9]

Fair enough S@int, a quote is a quote.

But I agree LFC2007. Rafa knows Torres perfectly well, he signed him up. And until this season he had reasons to think Torres struggled to play against deep defences. The reason is simple, his past. I thought the same way. But in England, deep defences or not, the game is more continous, there are less interruptions, and that seems to have been very important for Torres' game.

LFC2007's recent quotes on being a surprise most of goals coming in Anfield proves Rafa thought that way, as normally teams come to defend deeply here.

Back in September, with Voronin in a good form and being a new signing, he took a decission, ok, a mistake. I don't know any manager who doesn't make mistakes.

That doesn't mean most of the points we lost were due to decissions like this, and it remains to be seen btw that should Torres had played we would have won against Birmingham.

BTW, I think it's better to discuss without resorting to name calling, The Rock knows well what LFC or me think about him and viceversa, so no big news. Let's keep it about football.

A shame you never criticise your friends about name calling Sabre. LFC2007 is constantly name calling and being abusive but never ever gets criticised for it.

Name calling???

What age are you puppet head?
FFS surely if you are offended by name calling you really need to look back at why?


For example,say you call me a tw,at??
I would say,Heimarroide called me a ,but it would not be a big deal.I could really deal with it without issue!

And another thing what do you support LFC for anyway??
All you do is moan and complain and yap and gurn about players and Rafa!
Id hate to see your"support" for something you do not love,if what you have for LFC is love i pity what you hate!!

Just dont lock it in your basement!  

[Sabre]

I haven't called anyone a name Sabre?

I think you will find LFC2007 called Heimdall a name.

All I have done is argue football.

Of course you didn't call names. Internet misunderstanding, I started my post commenting that your quote was fair enough, but the rest of the post I wasn't talking to you mate.

At the end I mentioned the Rock, but the fúcking point was keep it about footie. FFS!

Now, where were We? Rafa.