Liverpool FC Forum

[JoeTerp]

maybe we are waiting for UEFA to award us the penalty when Hyypia was tripped in the box so that we can pay in the final

[bigmick]

I must say there's an awful lot of negativity re the appointment that I do find a little odd. People said the manager needed an assistant, they said we could do with somebody who has an inside knowledge of the club, they said we needed someone with Premiership experience, and some even said we needed an ex-player, and if possible a local lad.

Now given Lee ticks all the boxes, and it's worth considering that he began the season before last as one of the managers in situ in the Premier League, then I would have thought he deserves to be given a go at least before people dismiss him. Lets put it this way, I'm more confident that he will make a decent job of the assistant managers role than I am that Deggan will nail down the right-back slot. Coincidently, I know about as much about Sammy Lee's coaching ability as I do about Deggens style of play.

[NiftyNeil]

I'm fecking thrilled to bits about the appointment of Sammy Lee. I think he will be a good advisor to Rafa, he's passionate and also knowledgable. It seem daft after all these years of looking for the "missing piece of the jigsaw", but it could be Sammy.

[Number 9]

No one really knows anything about Sammy Lee's coaching ability or style Mick!

But what we do know is that he's been here before,knows how things work and LFC means a lot to him.
I'd much rather have him to help Rafa out than one of Rafas old mates from Spain who knows nothing much about the club.

I can only see positives out of his appointment,one things certain it wont do any harm.
Good luck to him,i read an interveiw with Lee today and hes clearly over the moon to be back!

[Sabre]

"With that fella we're going to bring, we'll have no less than 4 options to configure the midfield"



"Yes, I brought Torres, yes he's pretty good, but I'll pull him off the  starting eleven, just for the sake of it".



"Now those Spaniards are off to Austria, we can speak some decent english, hehe" (Players agree)

[LFC2007]

I can confidently say I know significantly more about Sammy Lee's character and coaching reputation than I do about Degen's style of play.

[account deleted by request]

I must say there's an awful lot of negativity re the appointment that I do find a little odd. People said the manager needed an assistant, they said we could do with somebody who has an inside knowledge of the club, they said we needed someone with Premiership experience, and some even said we needed an ex-player, and if possible a local lad.

Now given Lee ticks all the boxes, and it's worth considering that he began the season before last as one of the managers in situ in the Premier League, then I would have thought he deserves to be given a go at least before people dismiss him. Lets put it this way, I'm more confident that he will make a decent job of the assistant managers role than I am that Deggan will nail down the right-back slot. Coincidently, I know about as much about Sammy Lee's coaching ability as I do about Deggens style of play.

I didn't want an ex-player, I couldn't care less if he was a local lad, I wasn't even too worried about him having prem experience or inside knowledge of the club. I wanted the best possible person, with the best most upto date methods, ideas and techniques. If thats Sammy and he also ticks all the other boxes thats great, if not...........

My real concerns about Sammy are that he may not be a strong enough personality to state his case and his ideas. (Just what Heighway said put me off if I am perfectly honest.)

We need someone to say "are you fkn mad" when Rafa decides to rest Torres and Gerrard because we have a hard game coming up in 6months time, and I am not sure Sammy is the man for that job. More in the Phil Neal "brave decision boss" tradition?

Hopefully I am wrong and I certainly wish him every success.

The one area I think he will excel is as a motivator.

[crazyhorse]

I am made up at this. If he is as an industrious little as a coach as he was as a player we will have no worries.

[Sabre]

We need someone to say "are you fkn mad" when Rafa decides to rest Torres and Gerrard because we have a hard game coming up in 6months time, and I am not sure Sammy is the man for that job. More in the Phil Neal "brave decision boss" tradition?

Rafa needs  an assistant to develop his ideas, not a fúckwit complaining about his ideas.

P.S. Also, how many facts are needed so that some cliche criticism dissapears? I'm not talking about this example S@int used to make a simple example of what we need. When Torres was signed I doubted he was a good choice for scoring a lot of goals. I was happily wrong.

But, how many times more we will have to hear that Rafa rests Torres? He rested him twice, and with good reasons. Then Torres scores a lot of goals through out all the season, and I don't see the guys that in October said Rafa was mad rectifying. SUrely the use that Rafa has done of TOrres is correct when we see his performance?

Same would apply to the 4-2-3-1. What didn't I hear about that system yesteryear? defensive, negative, Rafa was mad, etc etc etc. This year I read in a headline today Liverpool is the team that scores more goals in England, and I don't see anyone rectifying about what they said in the past about it. Attacking and Defensive is not about having one or two strikers.

[bigmick]

But, how many times more we will have to hear that Rafa rests Torres? He rested him twice, and with good reasons.

Without getting into it all over again though Sabes, it's a question of when, where, against whom and in what competition. For instance while we rested Torres in two consecutive league matches, neither of which we scored a goal in, three days later he played away at Reading in the Carling Cup and scored a hat-trick (which suggests to me he wasn't that tired in the first place).

As for him doing well all season, he did. Please though, we're not seriously suggesting that his form in April is due to him being rested for two games in September though are we surely? Still the "delayed Gazelle" lives on as a theory despite everything.

Nobody I woudn't think has a problem with any player being rested. Lets try and wait until the season is more than a couple of weeks old next time though before we start resting people, lets wait until they've actually had a chance to get tired. It's also worth remembering that Torres wasn't rested against Birmingham, he was left out because "Voronin is better at playing between the lines". Ridiculous.

Another thing for next season. Unless we sign some World class players, given the fact that we've only got two of them in attacking positions lets make sure that barring injury at least one of them starts all the games in which we really care whether we win or not.

I'm sorry Sabes, love you as a poster ands all that but any attempts to pretend we didn't once again make a complete nonsense of our selection policy at the start of the season just gone are miles off in my opinion. You may think that changing the team 75 times in the first 15 matches is perfectly normal, but I certainly don't.

I notice on that thread which Joe bounced, I was claiming at the end of last season that Rafa had seen the light, he was about to not rotate anywhere near as much. Once again I was wrong, and once again it was painfully obvious that we tossed our chances away with silliness. If we do the same next season, it's definately time for a new manager.

[heimdall]

I notice on that thread which Joe bounced, I was claiming at the end of last season that Rafa had seen the light, he was about to not rotate anywhere near as much. Once again I was wrong, and once again it was painfully obvious that we tossed our chances away with silliness. If we do the same next season, it's definately time for a new manager.

Totally agree with that, towards the end of this season I was happy with how we played and you could see that the lads were gaining in confidence every game. IF Rafa starts over rotating again next season I think he will be out of the door very quickly. or at least I hope he would be.

Regarding Sammy Lee's appointment, I am not exactly over-excited. He was a joke as a manager so I can't see him contributing much and he hasn't really ever set the world alight with his coaching prowess either but at least there will be someone to back Rafa up all the time and massage his ego by telling him he's a genius and doing a great job.

[Sabre]

I'm sorry Sabes, love you as a poster ands all that but any attempts to pretend we didn't once again make a complete nonsense of our selection policy at the start of the season just gone are miles off in my opinion. You may think that changing the team 75 times in the first 15 matches is perfectly normal, but I certainly don't.

But we were talking about Torres. My point is precisely that. Sometimes I see some selections and like you I put this face  .

Then some pundits start to talk about it, and go on and on and on about it. And what started as a fair criticism about his team selection, ends up being "He drops Torres for the sake of it". That's what I'm criticising, and the fact that kind of statements are then wielded as universal truths. You reach a point in which a "clever" tv pundit seems to be teaching the man who signed Torres about his game, as if he was the one discovering Torres for Rafa.

I don't have a problem with you wanting Torres against Birmingham. I don't have a problem with you defending Torres' ability to play against deep defences. But, if we have a team, that if Torres is not available isn't able to win Birmingham at home, then you can't compete for the league anyway. Rafa trusts the squad, and some players should be able to break Birmmingham at home.

I was criticising this kind of exagerated statements, S@int just used it as a irrelevant example, but tv pundits say that kind of things all seriously and are paid for it. About the rotation policy, we've talked and we'll continue talking in the rotation thread, but this was a separated point.

[LFC2007]

It's also worth remembering that Torres wasn't rested against Birmingham, he was left out because "Voronin is better at playing between the lines". Ridiculous.

It'd probably be more accurate to say that Rafa had faith that a team without Torres in it could beat Birmingham City at home. The between the lines argument* was part of it, but a small part of it as with hindsight he was admittedly surprised at Torres' success, particularly at home i.e. you could say he underestimated Torres' ability early on. This was also at a point in time where Voronin's true (sh!te) ability hadn't quite been fully revealed, he'd scored a good goal against Toulouse and also against Sunderland prior to the Birmingham game.

*I don't think he actually said 'Voronin is better at playing between the lines than Torres'.

Just trying to add a touch of perspective, not that I agreed with the decision btw.

Regarding Sammy Lee's appointment, I am not exactly over-excited. He was a joke as a manager so I can't see him contributing much and he hasn't really ever set the world alight with his coaching prowess either but at least there will be someone to back Rafa up all the time and massage his ego by telling him he's a genius and doing a great job.

Bellend 

[account deleted by request]

*I don't think he actually said 'Voronin is better at playing between the lines than Torres'.

"Today was a difficult day because they were deep, narrow and compact and it's not easy to find spaces. You must be clever and try to play a different way," said Benítez. "I think that between the lines the best striker we have could be Voronin because he has movement, ability and technique.

"It's easy to talk about it after the game but in the first half I thought we were really good. In the second half we had some chances but we didn't have space and clear options."

    -------------------------------------------

Voronin has movement , ability and technique while Torres is just ........? 

[LFC2007]

"Could" be Voronin, which links in with my earlier point that he 1) Overestimated Voronin's ability and 2) Underestimated Torres'.

This was a month or so into the season.

"I don't know why so many of his league goals have come at Anfield," he said.
 
"For me, it's a surprise because I'd have thought he'd score more goals away because of his pace and he'd get more space and it’d be easier for him.
 
"Maybe it's just a coincidence. But the motivation at Anfield is fantastic because of our supporters.
 
"He's scored at Stamford Bridge and the San Siro in the Champions League, so he has shown he can score anywhere."

I this excerpt from Rafa bears this point out.