Liverpool FC Forum

[Bammo]

I think he expected Voronin, N'Gog, Babel and Lucas to step up and perform. They haven't and whilst I'm not blaming these players it meant that RB didn't strengthen in these areas.

CM is the biggest failing for me in that of our CM's we have Masch, Lucas, Spearing, Plessis and possibly Aurelio who are all defensive. Only Gerrard and Aquilani offer any creativity and attacking threat.

As for up front, I'd rather see Kuyt or Babel replace Torres when needed than Voronin. I didn't see the game last night (thankfully) but every time Voronin comes on he spends the first 5 minutes ball-chasing all over the pitch. He isn't there to pick the ball up from the right back position. Get up front or get off the pitch!

[DAV]

good post  bigmick i kind of agree. now my anger after last night as calmed alittle. But i do think just before the transfer window opens should be the first time to make a judgement then again at the end of the season.

[Bad Bob]

As there's been a few mentions and criticisms of the number of players Benitez has bought I thought I'd take a look at it. Here are his signings split into 1st team and youth players. It's as complete a list as I can find and there is some debate as to  which certain players fall into (eg Guthrie/Peltier/Spearing) but it is interesting to see how many of his buys were for the youth team. And no it's not in chronological order. If you want it that way then you do it


(list removed to keep the post manageable)

It's a fair point, mate.  As I used to do with the rotation debate in yesteryear, I get frustrated when numbers of transfers in/out is focused on without any context given.  Just as the number of changes per match need to be understood in context (of injuries, form, etc.) so too do the numbers related to our transfer activity.

With that said, I've done a little digging into transfers under Rafa and come up with my own pared down list of names (players that have actually played a game or two for the first team are what concerns me, rather than the kids).  I've also focused just on the transfers out because the quality of the players bought has been discussed at length whereas I'm more interested in thinking about the lads we let get away (or drove away).  So, with that said, here's a list of major transfers out under Rafa:

2004-2005
Murphy
Owen
Henchoz

2005-2006
Smicer
Diouf
Pellegrino
Biscan
Nunez
Baros
Josemi

2006-2007
Cheyrou
Morientes
Hamann
Traore
Kromkamp
Warnock
Diao
Sinama-Pongolle
Kirkland

2007-2008
Fowler
Zenden
Dudek
Garcia
Cisse
Bellamy
Gonzales
Paletta
Sissoko

2008-2009
Riise
Finnan
Kewell
Le Tallec
Crouch
Guthrie
Carson
Keane
Pennant

2009-2010
Leto
Alonso
Arbeloa
Hyypia (not a transfer per se)

Now, looking at that list, a few things stand out for me.  First, while you could take any year of Rafa's tenure and probably pick at least one player worth hanging onto from the list, the number of good-to-quality players that have left in the last few seasons is pretty remarkable.  Now, some of these players wanted to stay and some wanted to go, although that latter group is open to debate.  Could we have held onto a few of these want-aways with a bit more effort?  The proverbial arm around the shoulder approach?  It's possible.  Someone will no doubt say that some of these players simply weren't good enough and/or that Rafa needed to sell in order to raise cash for other purchases.  I'm sure there's plenty of truth to that but, looking at our bench now, it's hard to stomach the middling quality of our squad given who we've sold in the last few seasons.  If we'd managed to hang on to just a few of these lads, I don't think we'd be teetering on the brink right now.

(For the record, my hindsight 20/20 list of ill-advised transfers out includes: Bellamy, Cisse, Garcia, Sissoko, Riise, Crouch, Finnan, Keane, Arbeloa and of course Alonso; I'll make a special mention as well for Danny Murphy, who probably would have been a handy lad to hold onto during that rollercoaster first season under Rafa)

[Bammo]

I'd pretty much agree with all of that Bob. From around 2007 onwards we seem to be letting decent (maybe not brilliant) players go. At the time it seemed correct in that the idea was to replace them with better.

The thing is, I'd much rather have any one of Cisse, Bellamy or Keane on the field in place of Voronin or N'Gog.

I think it's acceptable to have a youngster (N'Gog) or an average player (Voronin) on the bench but when that's all we have is when it becomes worrying.

[Reg]

So tell me, of those brilliant players we let go, who has done brilliantly since ??

[dawson99]

i dont think it matters whos done what, look at the turnover of players at our club. how can they ever gel if there is so much chopping and changing?
Its a joke, we're like a championship manager side the amount of transfers

and also, to look at, how many players have we brought in who are as good? crouch cisse bellamy out, torres veronin ngog in.. ok, torres world class, the other 2 tho... we need a squad,. not just 2 or 3 good players surrounded by sh!te

[redhayesy]

i have an always will be a LFC  fan that means i believe in the club,the manager an the players who are privaliged to wear the red shirt. i will always stick with LFC through thick an thin.

the history of our club is what makes us so so different from any other -we don't sack managers-so let's keep some of our history alive by not starting now!

to even think about sacking raffa is an insult to our history. the game has changed so much over the years that we have found ourselves panicking for the holy grail... the bread & butter as shanks called it, that we have found ourselves being owned by fecking liers,who have bu11sh1ted their way into our club because we need investment for winning the title etc.

so back to the debate- yes our recent form has been shaky but to boo the manager last night made my blood boil! i just couldn't beleive my ears- he's me trying to educate my son in our history what it means to be a LFC suporter an then he hears that sh1t an questions me why is this happening?

i explained an dug out some really good books articles today for my son to read to enable him to get things into perspective - ignore the booing -we stick with the club  in good times & the bad.

thankfully my son has adopted my sentiments an attitude around this as part of his LFC education.

all i would say is that last night hurt like mad, but i will remain suportive of the manager & the players although some of them really do need to look at their attitude just like alot of suporters do at the moment. we are in this together the only way to come out of this the other end is to show passion, fight an show that at the end of the storm their is a golden sky!

i also believe that stevie as captain has a major part to play at the moment even if he isn't fit or playing etc to show leadership an support the manager in motivating the side. bad luck with injurys, bad luck with descisions wrong team selections as some think etc etc we just have to get on with it, an the "twelth man" needs to stand up an be counted!  an no better time to than sunday i say!

people are entitled to their opinion on here- imho sacking raffa would hurt me as much as last night's result, as one can be put right the other would be a detrament to our history an everthing we stand for as a club. so i for one still back an believe in raffa.

[bigmick]

Well Bellamy and Crouch have done pretty well Reg, as has Sissoko. I also am fairly convinced that Danny Murphy is STILL a far better player than Lucas. He can pass it too.

I think the point is though not whether or not these players have done "brilliantly", it's whether or not they are better than some of our "options" and "Possibilities". Is Milan Baros a better player than N'Gog? Is Cisse? Is pretty much any of the strikers we've moved on?

[skellyred71]

Yeah lets sack Rafa, lets sack the one saving grace we have left in terms of authority at the club.

He's been given a pittance to spend this summer to replace last year's player of the year, as well as the greatest centre half we've had in the Premiership era and one of the most reliable right backs in the country. He sold Alonso for 30 million, since then has spent around 20 on it to try and replace him, wheres the other 10 million gone? That's not including the money he got for selling Arby, Leto, Hobbs, Anderson and Hammill. He's had to sell and even then still isn't given that money to buy back.

He's had a squad that's full of injuries, thanks to our overly kind international schedule. There's not a great deal he can do about that, no matter how much people wanna blame Rafa for it.

His options are limited and he can't just pluck another top quality player out of thin air, quality costs and with those f*****g robbing b******s in charge of the club, Rafa isn't gonna be given the money to buy top quality. He's always gonna be having to settle for second or third best in terms of quality. It's testament to how good a manger he is when you see what he's achieved under such disturbing circumstances.

I'm not talking about the trophies he's won because they were won under the Moores' regime.

I'm talking about taking us to our highest points tally in our history. Yes our f*****g history. The history that has won us 18 League titles, none of those title winning sides won as many points as Rafa Benitez' Liverpool side did last year. I'm talking about constantly fighting the owners for the good of the club, Rafa is the one who wants good for the club and Rafa is good for the club. I'm talking about us t******g United in their own back f*****g yard. In case you missed that game it ended 4-1. Rafa outclassed Ferguson in every department. He outclassed money bags Hughes last year 3-2. He outclassed money bags Scolari. He's outclassed every so called top manager.

And it was this squad (pretty much) and these tactics that set us so well last year. Difference being? That's right dimwits, the players are the ones not performing and without decent f*****g owners giving Rafa the funds he needs, he's not gonna be able to bring in a better class of player. His hands are tied.

But yeah lets sack him and bring in a yes man for those two con artist c***s who claim to be owning the club. You'll only ever own this club by name you pair of t***s, but in spirit the club will always belong to the fans. But they'll bring in a yes man who they can control, Rafa is anything but that and is always fighting our corner for us.

If you want him sacked then you've a f*****g lot to learn about football in general and even more so Liverpool Football Club. Top clubs, and this one especially, don't sack their managers because of a few bad results. Top clubs, and especially this one, are proud to have managers of the caliber of Rafa Benitez and should do everything in their power to keep him as boss.

There's very few top class managers with Rafa's record, dignity, pride, loyalty and class but what the heck, lets just f*****g sack him and bring in Mark McGhee.

didnt even want to post comment until i read your post mate, totally agree with everything you have said here lad! i will be at arsenal on wednesday, fulham on saturday and in lyon and you know why because i LOVE THIS CLUB!!!!!

[LittleHobo]

look at athletico madrid for eg

an average european club, who have probaly spent half as much as us in recent years

but look at the options from the bench

maxi rodrigeuz
sinama pongolle
jose antontio reias

id take anyone of those 3 in a shot at liverpool

[DAV]

fair comment, against the bigger teams last year, so what happend against the weaker teams at home???
Where were the gladiators then??? who slayed chelsea man utd and arsenal

[Sabre]

One of the grudges Alonso had with Rafa, is perhaps related to the point Bob rises. Alonso said but in a bad way, as it was a complaint, "it's just me and Hyypia left from the team we won something in 2007".

Myself, as much as I'm a rotationist (not a massive rotationist), I don't like too much rotation through out the years, and I would concur Alonso when he implied some more should have stayed.

[Bammo]

fair comment, against the bigger teams last year, so what happend against the weaker teams at home???
Where were the gladiators then??? who slayed chelsea man utd and arsenal

It's consistency we lack from our squad players. Some games they come in and play well (eg v Man U) and sometimes they're awful (this week).

-------

Is it better to have players who come in and play 6 or 7/10 regardless of the opposition or players who are either 3/10 or 9/10?

[NANNY RED]

The same people who booed last night Hayesy will be the ones clapping The the little t.wat Owen Back , Mark my words

[DAV]

i dont want to get into a who was at the game and who wasnt rubbish.
but all those lucky enough to go to the game last night, a question for you.
where i was sat on the kop everyone was booing all round me including myself. and that booing sound seemed to be coming from all over the ground. What was it like wher anyone sat??
seems to me, in my opinion that including myself alot of Liverpool supporters at the games are sad tw@ts and have no place at anfield. (going by the response to the booing i have read on various threads on this forum).