Ryan Babel - What do you think ?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby bigmick » Sat May 10, 2008 1:21 pm

I suppose the tester for these players which you relatively shell out a lot of money to gamble on, is if you knew then what you know now would you still pay the money you paid? Probably around Christmas time, there wouldn't have been that many people who would've been prepared to splash out 11 million squid on Babel with the benefit of hindsight (I certainly wouldn't have back then). Since then though, he has gradually grown and has gone past Lucas for most people I would think in terms of most promising player in and around the first team.

I like Lucas but whereas he has flattered to decieve a little, Babel has grown into the team. It's probably no coincidence (and I think perhaps even the "pro's" would accept this) that Babel is the one out of the two who has been given a regular starting berth in the team, but only the Brazillians biggest and most deluded fans would argue that he is currently good enough for a starting spot on merit.

So anyway what of Babel? Well many people have alluded to the fact he doesn't use his left foot that much, but I shouldn't think that unless he intends being a left-winger all his life it would be too much of a problem. I've seen him shoot and cross with his left foot with varying degrees of success so I wouldn't count it as a particular weakness. He does seem to posess a good hit when he just unloads, obviously has a tonne of pace (which he doesn't seem to know how best to use on occasions) and has a trick or two to take him back onto his favoured right side when the situation allows. I haven't really seen him head it much that I can remember but he would probably have the athleticism to be a good header, if not the inclination.

I think he can improve most in how he uses himself, where he puts himself during a game and his general decision making in posession. To me whether he starts on the left side, right side or as a conventional front man, he should be encouraged to track in off the touchline more and make an angle for the full back. Upon recieving the ball, he kind of needs to think less if that doesn't sound too odd. He's fairly obviously a nightmare to defend against when he's actually in full flight with the football at his feet, as he asks defenders to make decisions with critical outcomes very quickly and with tiny margins for error. There won't be many who will shepherd Babel down the outside because like a young Henri he has enough after burners to go through the gears and simply go round the long way. So nine times out of ten it's a stand and deliver situation for a defender if Babels in full flight, they're either having him over or they're tackling him cleanly, and it happens in the blink of an eye.

His gameplan should therefore be all about getting in full flight with the football at his feet as often as possible. Surprisingly it's not quite as simple as just "get the ball and run with it FFS!!" as there are a couple of factors. Firstly, as he is reluctant to track in off the touchline (or he gets coached to stay out there but I think that's unlikely TBH) it's sometimes difficult firstly to get the ball to him, and secondly he's often got nowhere to go when he gets it. At the moment the full back is happy to ease him infield where he gets confronted by the central midfielders and he nine times out of ten gets rid of the ball.

Well the first bit is quite easy to fix, and this really is as simple as saying "just come in off the touchline by ten yards when the fullback gets it FFS!!" :laugh: . For the second bit to improve though, Rafa and his teammates have got a big role to play. I actually think Babel has to be encouraged to run with the ball, sometimes accross the field towards the right, sometimes in the midfield areas and sometimes in dangerous positions, purely because when he gets his confidence up he could cause huge damage and not just around the opposition goal. His first instinct upon recieving the ball should be "can I ask a question here?". Now nobody goes on a run every time they get it, he'd be like a modern day Alan Devonshire FFS but the thought should be in his and his defenders minds that there's a very good chance that he'll pin back his ears and go. Obviously in so doing, he is going to sometimes lose it, sometimes waste it and sometimes do everybodies head in but if you want a straight up and down player, don't sell Riise and play him there. It's going to need patience and lots of encouragement from the fans as well, but that to me is Babels biggest asset. If he can consistently run with the ball during games he has it in him to become a top player.

One last thing, they need to work on a few patterns which allow him to actually recieve it when he is in or somewhere near to full flight. I'd be very comfortable as a defender if as currently happens he almost always recieves the ball standing still, whereas I'd get very nervous about him getting the ball on the move. Him doing so got us the penalty which beat Arsenal in the Champions league.
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Postby Torres25 » Sat May 10, 2008 3:09 pm

People keep sayin not the new Henry but Babel was better then Henry was when he was 21

Hope he gets upfront with Torres more next season defemders cant live with his pace, power & skill

Must improve on fitness & stanima its the thing thats hold him back 4 me
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Postby metalhead » Sat May 10, 2008 3:16 pm

Still not convinced about him, sure he looks good in some aspects, but his decision making is awful and his first touch is average.

Next season will tough for him
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Postby 7_Kewell » Sat May 10, 2008 4:13 pm

for 11 million quid i was expecting a LOT more.  Perhaps he'll improve next season, but he reminds me of Cisse on the flank....can't cross, can't pass and has an awful first touch.
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Postby nobybob » Sat May 10, 2008 5:57 pm

bigmick wrote:I suppose the tester for these players which you relatively shell out a lot of money to gamble on, is if you knew then what you know now would you still pay the money you paid? Probably around Christmas time, there wouldn't have been that many people who would've been prepared to splash out 11 million squid on Babel with the benefit of hindsight (I certainly wouldn't have back then). Since then though, he has gradually grown and has gone past Lucas for most people I would think in terms of most promising player in and around the first team.

I like Lucas but whereas he has flattered to decieve a little, Babel has grown into the team. It's probably no coincidence (and I think perhaps even the "pro's" would accept this) that Babel is the one out of the two who has been given a regular starting berth in the team, but only the Brazillians biggest and most deluded fans would argue that he is currently good enough for a starting spot on merit.

So anyway what of Babel? Well many people have alluded to the fact he doesn't use his left foot that much, but I shouldn't think that unless he intends being a left-winger all his life it would be too much of a problem. I've seen him shoot and cross with his left foot with varying degrees of success so I wouldn't count it as a particular weakness. He does seem to posess a good hit when he just unloads, obviously has a tonne of pace (which he doesn't seem to know how best to use on occasions) and has a trick or two to take him back onto his favoured right side when the situation allows. I haven't really seen him head it much that I can remember but he would probably have the athleticism to be a good header, if not the inclination.

I think he can improve most in how he uses himself, where he puts himself during a game and his general decision making in posession. To me whether he starts on the left side, right side or as a conventional front man, he should be encouraged to track in off the touchline more and make an angle for the full back. Upon recieving the ball, he kind of needs to think less if that doesn't sound too odd. He's fairly obviously a nightmare to defend against when he's actually in full flight with the football at his feet, as he asks defenders to make decisions with critical outcomes very quickly and with tiny margins for error. There won't be many who will shepherd Babel down the outside because like a young Henri he has enough after burners to go through the gears and simply go round the long way. So nine times out of ten it's a stand and deliver situation for a defender if Babels in full flight, they're either having him over or they're tackling him cleanly, and it happens in the blink of an eye.

His gameplan should therefore be all about getting in full flight with the football at his feet as often as possible. Surprisingly it's not quite as simple as just "get the ball and run with it FFS!!" as there are a couple of factors. Firstly, as he is reluctant to track in off the touchline (or he gets coached to stay out there but I think that's unlikely TBH) it's sometimes difficult firstly to get the ball to him, and secondly he's often got nowhere to go when he gets it. At the moment the full back is happy to ease him infield where he gets confronted by the central midfielders and he nine times out of ten gets rid of the ball.

Well the first bit is quite easy to fix, and this really is as simple as saying "just come in off the touchline by ten yards when the fullback gets it FFS!!" :laugh: . For the second bit to improve though, Rafa and his teammates have got a big role to play. I actually think Babel has to be encouraged to run with the ball, sometimes accross the field towards the right, sometimes in the midfield areas and sometimes in dangerous positions, purely because when he gets his confidence up he could cause huge damage and not just around the opposition goal. His first instinct upon recieving the ball should be "can I ask a question here?". Now nobody goes on a run every time they get it, he'd be like a modern day Alan Devonshire FFS but the thought should be in his and his defenders minds that there's a very good chance that he'll pin back his ears and go. Obviously in so doing, he is going to sometimes lose it, sometimes waste it and sometimes do everybodies head in but if you want a straight up and down player, don't sell Riise and play him there. It's going to need patience and lots of encouragement from the fans as well, but that to me is Babels biggest asset. If he can consistently run with the ball during games he has it in him to become a top player.

One last thing, they need to work on a few patterns which allow him to actually recieve it when he is in or somewhere near to full flight. I'd be very comfortable as a defender if as currently happens he almost always recieves the ball standing still, whereas I'd get very nervous about him getting the ball on the move. Him doing so got us the penalty which beat Arsenal in the Champions league.

spot on assessment , i couldn't agree more :bowdown
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Postby Emerald Red » Sat May 10, 2008 6:09 pm

s@int wrote:I think he has done OK this season without having a great game to his name yet. He has scored some good goals and given glimpses of what he is capable of, but I still have my doubts. He certainly needs to toughen up as Nanny has already said, and start using his left foot occasionally if only to put a little doubt in the oppositions mind as to what he is going to do.

If I had to guess I would say he will be a decent player but not quite what we are looking for (Pongole) rather than the new Henry.

The thing is, S@int, remember Henry in his first two seasons with Arsenal? He looked average. Babel has actually done very well if what he says is true about setting himself a benchmark of 10 goals for himself to reach personally. He's been more of an impact player and has done great considering he's not playing in his natural position. If he continues to improve, then we could have a potential superstar playing for us within the next few years IMO. We haven't seen the best of him yet by any stretch. He's also probably got the most fierce right foot strike in the Prem since Hasselbaink. We just haven't seen enough of it yet.
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Postby SupitsJonF » Sat May 10, 2008 7:40 pm

I've always wondered why Babel and Torres haven't been given a shot together up front.  They both have pace and I think it could make a dangerous combo once they get a rhythm together.  I think Babel proved against Chelsea he has a outside shot, making both strikers deadly from range and even deadlier up close.

As for a winger, he is deff. decent.  Maybe learning a few more tricks would help him get around defenders and less predictable.  Still lots of room for improvement, but I would still love to see him as a striker.
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Postby Number 9 » Sat May 10, 2008 8:45 pm

Sometimes we are too critical of our own.Its in a football fans nature to want every player their club signs to be an instant success and hit the ground running.Over the years though football has proven this is seldom the case!
What i can say about Ryan Babel though is that a few mates of mine that are fans and knowledgable about football(though dont support an English team) think he is exciting and a great prospect for the future!(would love him at Rangers)

In my opinion im happy we signed him.I like his outlook and desire from reading his interveiws and he also knows he is blessed being given the opportunity to play for LFC.One thing is for sure if Ryan Babel ever becomes a failure it will not be due to lack of effort!
At times this season he has looked a class act,at other times he has looked vulnerable and intimidated.
Its understandable though the EPL is probably the most physical League in the world and it will take him time to adapt.

I have no doubt he has ability but at times he gives the ball away far to easily or plays a bad pass.I think he needs a bit more confidence and to toughen up slightly then it will be time to judge.
Lets just say one thing hes 21 years old and has had a stop start season at LFC,but only a fool would say it was a bad one!

Im excited about what he will offer in the future!
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Postby KennyisGod....still » Sat May 10, 2008 9:47 pm

I jus wish he'd ditch the red boots..... its almost as if as he gets the ball he looks down and thinks he's only wearin socks and darent make a good connection in case he hurts his foot!! Some chances he's missed down to a poor first touch have been awful. BUT, where in the earlier part of the season he only produced as a sub he has started to improve toward the back end of the season, and I do see signs of promise in him. I dont think he'll be a brilliant striker, but he does have the potential to be a very good one.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sun May 11, 2008 12:13 am

Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:I think he has done OK this season without having a great game to his name yet. He has scored some good goals and given glimpses of what he is capable of, but I still have my doubts. He certainly needs to toughen up as Nanny has already said, and start using his left foot occasionally if only to put a little doubt in the oppositions mind as to what he is going to do.

If I had to guess I would say he will be a decent player but not quite what we are looking for (Pongole) rather than the new Henry.

The thing is, S@int, remember Henry in his first two seasons with Arsenal? He looked average. Babel has actually done very well if what he says is true about setting himself a benchmark of 10 goals for himself to reach personally. He's been more of an impact player and has done great considering he's not playing in his natural position. If he continues to improve, then we could have a potential superstar playing for us within the next few years IMO. We haven't seen the best of him yet by any stretch. He's also probably got the most fierce right foot strike in the Prem since Hasselbaink. We just haven't seen enough of it yet.

I hope you are right mate, because I think he has been lucky this season to get as many games in as he has. Next season unless he does progress(or change position) I think he may struggle to get as many games.

My reference to Pongole wasn't an insult as I always thought Pongole was a talented footballer, just not what we required at the time. (I think we could have used him this season!)

Same with Babel, I think he could find himself struggling to get games next season if either we sign a couple of wingers or Barry does come. Young players who don't get the opportunities soon lose confidence and begin to drift, I just hope that doesn't happen with Babel.
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Postby bigmick » Sun May 11, 2008 1:38 am

I personally think it would do Babel a huge favour, and give everyone else a more realistic chance of assessing him if we forgot about this whole "new Henri" thing. Did anybody actually say that in the first place, and if he did was he one of those "all black blokes look the same" people?

To tell the truth in the last few months Babel has shown plenty of promise, but I think comparing him to probably the best player who has played in the Premiership is a bit unfair. New Annelka maybe (even then that's stretching it), new Sylvan Wiltord, but not new Henri, not in a million years.
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Postby Rush Job » Sun May 11, 2008 4:24 am

Ive been impressed, and he has scored in some big games whitch isnt a bad habit to have, deffo knows where the net is and i recon we`ll see him more upfront next season, Rafa said he doesnt see his future out wide and the lad wants to play upfront and see`s him self as a striker so....
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Postby Effes » Sun May 11, 2008 7:17 am

I dont think he's that good to be honest.

Maybe if we'd seen "flashes" of brilliance I'd have higher hopes.

But I haven't, so i haven't.
Last edited by Effes on Sun May 11, 2008 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ruskiy playmaker » Sun May 11, 2008 7:27 am

Effes wrote:I dont think he's that good to be honest.

Maybe if we'd seen "flashes" of brilliance I'd have higher hopes.

But I haven't, so i haven't.

This is just one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlZ3F_fiIck


I don't know what you call flashes, but I've seen plenty from him this season.  This kid has shown that he has skill, pace and incredible shot power.  With proper guidance he could become a terrific player.
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Postby Owzat » Sun May 11, 2008 8:28 am

red37 wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Babel £10-£12 million  and how many goals . I think he has had a good first season , but imo he's not a winger ,so the sooner he gets put up front the better for him .

If you compare what the mancs payed for Nani and anderson ,and the first season they have had it looks very positive for babel and lucas for that matter.

I agree with Ig.

I said earlier in the piece when he arrived that, i reckon we will have a gem on our hands 2-3 years down the line and i've not changed my mind since. His most effective position for me, as others have said - surely is up front. In any case i like what he has brought to the attack. Another couple of seasons under his belt should allow for any creases to be ironed out and with confidence, there's no reason at all why the lad can't go on to great things.

If you think about it Rafa hasn't got several positions right yet and he's using Babel and Kuyt in roles they're not ideally suited too, but in Kuyt's case in particular he has done well in.

Whether Rafa sticks with the ideal of Babel (and Kuyt) wide next season remains to be seen, quite possibly if his signings in the summer aren't up to scratch in those positions. There's certainly room for improvement with Babel, not necessarily his goalscoring but other aspects others have mentioned. He's young, it's a shame we paid so much for him as some are expecting a finished article.
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