Liverpool FC Forum

[jacdaniel]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

The way i see it is...when you compare our resources to that of the other clubs in the PL, we had no right to be challenging for the title.  Chelsea had far more money and Arsenal/utd had long term managers and good squads in place.  But our league form was improving up until last season.

[NANNY RED]

Dear oh dear great source Christie when will you ever learn, 

[tonyeh]

Sorry, I can't accept that. The "resource" excuse is a poor one. There may not have been billions to spend, but what was thrown away on terrible buys was even worse.

Also, for about a couple of months in the latter half of the season that Liverpool came 2nd in the league (when it was theirs for the taking BTW), they played some truly excellent football, when Rafa took the shackles off and let them go. They showed that they had a game that could beat the likes of Real, Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal (is it wasn't for Arshavin). This was a team that should have been challenging all the time for the prem.

[mrt]

Again, not the biggest Benitez mark, but getting us ranked no1 in Euro competition shows he must have been doing something right, however unpretty it could be to watch.  Rafa was not perfect but he's Yoda next to Roy Hodgson.

[7_Kewell]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

The way i see it is...when you compare our resources to that of the other clubs in the PL, we had no right to be challenging for the title.  Chelsea had far more money and Arsenal/utd had long term managers and good squads in place.  But our league form was improving up until last season.

we had EVERY right to be challenging the years that we did. Rafa spent big on Torres, Masch, Babel, Reina, Morientes, Alonso, Keane and a whole load of other players. Some were sucessful, some weren't.

The bottom line is we would have never won the league with Rafa, regardless of money. We won't with Roy either, but he's not here to win the league. He's here to steady the ship and let the new owners bring in their own staff without objection.

[tonyeh]

Sure, Benitez's tenure was by no means an absolute disaster, but likewise it certainly wasn't the highpoint that some would have you believe.

Seriously, if one looks critically at his leadership, it wasn't THAT great.

Was Hodgson the right replacement? No, that answer's obvious. But, there's no reason whatsoever to believe that another year under Benitez would have been much better.

[Thommo's perm]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

Great post
Some people really do wear rose tinted glasses.
I remember a bitter saying to me in 2007: "tactical genius my ar'se". You were getting fu'cked 3-0 at half time in Turkey and he was forced to bring Hamman on. You scraped through on penalties. In the 2006 fa cup mighty west ham were Fu*king you and you scraped through on penalties. If Rafas such a Fu*king genius why didnt you win them in normal time?" I must admit it took the wind out of my sails. And when we lost the 2007 final I was convinced he was not the one to bring the glory days back
Sad but true

[Roger Red Hat]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

summed up nicely Tonyeh 

[7_Kewell]

Sure, Benitez's tenure was by no means an absolute disaster, but likewise it certainly wasn't the highpoint that some would have you believe.

Seriously, if one looks critically at his leadership, it wasn't THAT great.

Was Hodgson the right replacement? No, that answer's obvious. But, there's no reason whatsoever to believe that another year under Benitez would have been much better.

ditto

For me the begining of the end for Rafa was when he forced out Alonso.

[Benny The Noon]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

The year is 2007 and little bluenose Duncan is talking to his bluenose Dad.

SON “Dad, my mates in school told me that Liverpool won the European Cup for the 5th time in 2005 – are they right dad?

DAD “Yes SON , it’s true, but they were dead lucky SON , all the way through the tournament”

SON “Why dad?”

DAD “Well in the group stages …..”

SON “What dad, did they have a team from Azerbaijan, Israel, and Ireland in their group?”

DAD “Well no, they had Monaco, Deportivo la Coruna, and Olympiakos”

SON “Well they still sound like 3 easy teams to me dad”

DAD “Actually Monaco reached the final the year before, Olympiakos had won their league 7 times out of the previous 8 seaSON s, and Deportivo finished above the galacticos of Real Madrid in their league”.

SON “Jeez dad, that sounds like quite a difficult group then”.

DAD “yeh I suppose your right SON , but they were still lucky – it took a mishit shot by Gerrard against Olympiakos to get through”.

SON “oh is that the goal were your hero Andy Gray goes berserk shouting “you beauty, you beauty, what a hit SON , what a hit!!!!”

DAD “yes SON it is”

SON “oh ok. Well what happened in the last 16 dad, who did they draw?”

DAD “Bayer Leverkusen”

SON “Bayer who?”

DAD “Exactly SON , but they had beaten Real Madrid 3-0 at home, and won their group that included Dinamo Kiev and Roma too.”

SON “bloody hell dad, they sound good”.

DAD “yes, I suppose you’re right SON ”

SON “so did they win on away goals or something”

DAD ”errrrr, no, they won both legs 3-1 each”

SON “oh – well who next then dad”

DAD “Juventus”

SON “How the f#ck did they get past them Dad?”

DAD “Well they did – they won 2-1 at home, and cruised to a 0-0 away draw without Juve having hardly any chances”.

SON “were Juve sh#t at that time – had all their decent players gone or something?”

DAD “well actually they still had players like Del Piero, Nedved, Ibrahimovic, Thuram, and Buffon in the side. And they won Serie A a few weeks later.”

SON “wow, they beat the Italian champions elect – which easy team did they get in the semi then?”

DAD “Chelsea”

SON “Chelsea – for f#cks sake – what a easy draw – they’ve won nothing, Everton have won more than them”.

DAD “well that seaSON they won the Premiership and League Cup but the Red didn’t let them score in 180 minutes of football”

SON “Jesus Christ – so Liverpool beat the English Champions elect too”

DAD “yes SON , they bloody well did”.

SON “so after all that I suppose all the good teams had been knocked out”

DAD “not quite SON , AC Milan awaited them in the final”

SON “no way – aren’t they the 2nd most successful team in the competition’s history”.

DAD “yes SON they are”

SON “so were Liverpool lucky because Milan had all their good players out with injuries”

DAD “no – they had Shevchenko, Crespo, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Kaka, Stam, Dida, Gattuso, Pirlo, and Seedorf”.

SON “your ‘avin a laff”

DAD “it gets worse SON , Milan were cruising 3-0 up at half-time”.

SON “what happened, did they have 3 men sent off in the second half – how did Liverpool get back into the game?”

DAD “no, Milan had no men sent off, the Red scored 3 goals in 6 minutes”

SON “against the best defence in Europe”

DAD “yes!!!, against the best defence in Europe”

SON “so what happened next - extra time?”

DAD “yes SON , and Dudek made the luckiest save ever to stop a Shevchenko shot from a yard”

SON “why was it lucky dad – did it hit him on the , nose, shoulder or something”

DAD “no SON , his hand”

SON “well aren’t goalies meant to save shots with their hands”

DAD “yeah but that’s besides the point”

SON “then what”

DAD “penalties!”

SON “English teams are at penalties”

DAD “not this f#ckin time they weren’t – they only missed one. And that’s how Liverpool became the luckiest team to win the European Cup”.

SON “but I bet when they brought the cup home there was hardly anyone to watch as all Liverpool fans live anywhere but Liverpool you say. How many was there, 5,,000 or so?”

DAD “1 million people lined the streets”.

SON ”so let’s get this straight dad – Liverpool had 3 good teams in their group, they then knocked out a team who had beaten Real Madrid 3-0, they then knocked out the future Serie A champions, then knocked out the future Premiership champions, before coming back from 3-0 down to beat the 2nd most successful club in Europe. And then the whole population of Liverpool came out to welcome them home!!!!

DAD “that about sums it up SON ”

SON “dad?”

DAD “yes SON ”

SON “can I have a Liverpool shirt for my birthday next week, and can you stop calling me Duncan – I’m Stevie from now on”

[Thommo's perm]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

The year is 2007 and little bluenose Duncan is talking to his bluenose Dad.

SON “Dad, my mates in school told me that Liverpool won the European Cup for the 5th time in 2005 – are they right dad?

DAD “Yes SON , it’s true, but they were dead lucky SON , all the way through the tournament”

SON “Why dad?”

DAD “Well in the group stages …..”

SON “What dad, did they have a team from Azerbaijan, Israel, and Ireland in their group?”

DAD “Well no, they had Monaco, Deportivo la Coruna, and Olympiakos”

SON “Well they still sound like 3 easy teams to me dad”

DAD “Actually Monaco reached the final the year before, Olympiakos had won their league 7 times out of the previous 8 seaSON s, and Deportivo finished above the galacticos of Real Madrid in their league”.

SON “Jeez dad, that sounds like quite a difficult group then”.

DAD “yeh I suppose your right SON , but they were still lucky – it took a mishit shot by Gerrard against Olympiakos to get through”.

SON “oh is that the goal were your hero Andy Gray goes berserk shouting “you beauty, you beauty, what a hit SON , what a hit!!!!”

DAD “yes SON it is”

SON “oh ok. Well what happened in the last 16 dad, who did they draw?”

DAD “Bayer Leverkusen”

SON “Bayer who?”

DAD “Exactly SON , but they had beaten Real Madrid 3-0 at home, and won their group that included Dinamo Kiev and Roma too.”

SON “bloody hell dad, they sound good”.

DAD “yes, I suppose you’re right SON ”

SON “so did they win on away goals or something”

DAD ”errrrr, no, they won both legs 3-1 each”

SON “oh – well who next then dad”

DAD “Juventus”

SON “How the f#ck did they get past them Dad?”

DAD “Well they did – they won 2-1 at home, and cruised to a 0-0 away draw without Juve having hardly any chances”.

SON “were Juve sh#t at that time – had all their decent players gone or something?”

DAD “well actually they still had players like Del Piero, Nedved, Ibrahimovic, Thuram, and Buffon in the side. And they won Serie A a few weeks later.”

SON “wow, they beat the Italian champions elect – which easy team did they get in the semi then?”

DAD “Chelsea”

SON “Chelsea – for f#cks sake – what a easy draw – they’ve won nothing, Everton have won more than them”.

DAD “well that seaSON they won the Premiership and League Cup but the Red didn’t let them score in 180 minutes of football”

SON “Jesus Christ – so Liverpool beat the English Champions elect too”

DAD “yes SON , they bloody well did”.

SON “so after all that I suppose all the good teams had been knocked out”

DAD “not quite SON , AC Milan awaited them in the final”

SON “no way – aren’t they the 2nd most successful team in the competition’s history”.

DAD “yes SON they are”

SON “so were Liverpool lucky because Milan had all their good players out with injuries”

DAD “no – they had Shevchenko, Crespo, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Kaka, Stam, Dida, Gattuso, Pirlo, and Seedorf”.

SON “your ‘avin a laff”

DAD “it gets worse SON , Milan were cruising 3-0 up at half-time”.

SON “what happened, did they have 3 men sent off in the second half – how did Liverpool get back into the game?”

DAD “no, Milan had no men sent off, the Red scored 3 goals in 6 minutes”

SON “against the best defence in Europe”

DAD “yes!!!, against the best defence in Europe”

SON “so what happened next - extra time?”

DAD “yes SON , and Dudek made the luckiest save ever to stop a Shevchenko shot from a yard”

SON “why was it lucky dad – did it hit him on the , nose, shoulder or something”

DAD “no SON , his hand”

SON “well aren’t goalies meant to save shots with their hands”

DAD “yeah but that’s besides the point”

SON “then what”

DAD “penalties!”

SON “English teams are at penalties”

DAD “not this f#ckin time they weren’t – they only missed one. And that’s how Liverpool became the luckiest team to win the European Cup”.

SON “but I bet when they brought the cup home there was hardly anyone to watch as all Liverpool fans live anywhere but Liverpool you say. How many was there, 5,,000 or so?”

DAD “1 million people lined the streets”.

SON ”so let’s get this straight dad – Liverpool had 3 good teams in their group, they then knocked out a team who had beaten Real Madrid 3-0, they then knocked out the future Serie A champions, then knocked out the future Premiership champions, before coming back from 3-0 down to beat the 2nd most successful club in Europe. And then the whole population of Liverpool came out to welcome them home!!!!

DAD “that about sums it up SON ”

SON “dad?”

DAD “yes SON ”

SON “can I have a Liverpool shirt for my birthday next week, and can you stop calling me Duncan – I’m Stevie from now on”

Still a great story that
Pity he lost the plot

[Benny The Noon]

The one thing i really hate is when people say the 2005 win was lucky .

Anyway i see the threads are still full of Rafa this and Rafa that yet he left over 6 months ago .

When we people realise he has gone and we have a new manager in charge is massively under performing to the levels where he has broken most of our worst records as he goes along .

[tonyeh]

It's fucking amazing, this Benitez love in, it really is. There really are some gobshites that think the man could do no wrong at all despite all the evidence to contrary.

Are we really forgetting that bar one season (which he threw away), Liverpool were out of the league running by the halfway mark? A lucky CL final win ON PENALTIES in Istanbul, another final which was lost to dubious decisions, an FA cup final won on penalties again and that's really it.

He was an average manager that rode an incredible amount of luck, whose vaneer has finally rubbed away.

If we hadn't crawled back from 3-0 down in 2005, there's no way Benitez would have been around for 6 seasons.

Really, the record ain't that great.

The year is 2007 and little bluenose Duncan is talking to his bluenose Dad...blah blah blah

I didn't read your post GYBS, but I'm really surprised it took you nearly an hour to say something after mentioning the name Benitez.

[worcester_red]

Robbed

But understand that wasnt down to Roy and his team being good, it was down to Juventus being awful. 

So are all our losses this season down to the opposition being brilliant then?

How is it that Woy can winge about he squad he inherited when he left behind an even bigger pile of for Hughes, at least he had the good grace to take Konchesky with him I guess. 

Anyway i still don't understand how a run in the UEFA cup which no one really gives 2 sh1tes about qualifies any manager for top manager of the year. Surely winning the league in your first season is a bit more impressive isn't it?

[Benny The Noon]

Maybe you should read it then - might provide a little insight for you . As for our previous manager - looking around it seems to me that you seem to be constantly bringing him up - He has gone - get over it .