Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

Just as an add-on, and it should go without saying, but Parry needs to go regardless of what happens to Rafa.  He's an easy target but there's a reason why he gets blamed for transfer-related gaffs.

[Madmax]

The alonso fiasco got me worried aswel. I was actually upset to hear that he wanted to offload him. I think rafa is losing the plot. His made some odd decisions recently and i really dont understand what he feels is best for the club. He is the manager he should knows better but i think their is a hidden agenda to all this.
The way things are if we do get rid of keane i see us short of strikers up front. With big games comming up and challeging in 3 diff comps i feel we are short of a few players..
For me this season will either go decent or absolutely shyte and could see us scraping for a champs league spot.

[GYBS]

im sorry lakes but if the british youngsters were good enough they would play . Not many teams have british youngsters coming thru the ranks . Even man utd just spent another 16 odd mil on serbians . Chelsea have none and arsenal have one plus one they have bought . No manager will say no to playing a kid just because he is british . The simple hard fact is they arent good enough , the youngsters from abroad get coached and trained far better as a kid and 9 times out of ten are technically better than their english counterpart . Plus if more kids actually went out for a kick about as opposed to eating and playin fifa or whatever then maybe more british talent would come thru .

most of the good ones dont come to us now, they know that they have a better chance with other teams......bring back the old days. I hate all this money in football.

GYBS waffling again.

are you suggesting that by some freak of nature there are no good english youth players available?

so the likes of gerrard, fowler, macmanaman, carra, owen were all just freaks, were we just lucky that these players came through the ranks? Thats bollox, I am sure there are players of their potential out there but they certainly are not coming through our system any more. every  one of those I mention were picked up as schoolboys, the city is full of footballing talent so whats happening? why are they not coming through. the removal of heighway was a mistake for a start.

you say the foreign youngsters are coached better than the british youngsters, bollox again, apart from torres name me one player we have better than the the 5 names i mention above

drag yourself into the 21st century . How long ago did those players break thru ? What players have come thru since ? Heighway only left 18 months . What kids came thru in between gerrard and heighway leaving ? None . How many big english talents have broken thru any clubs lately ? Maybe walcott before that rooney ? Where are all there great local talent ? Dont see many of them at many clubs ? Maybe just maybe they arent there because they arent good enough and they arent better than the foreign players of the same age at this present time

[112-1077774096]

well you have basically answered your own earlier post and contradicted it.
well done   


edited to add I am not going to get into one of your drawn out tedious back and forth discussions about your rose tinted opinion

[Rorschach26]

Rorschach, perhaps people do see the good things (Mascherano, Alonso, Reina, Istambul) but quite simply thinks with another manager we could do better.

John Benjamin Toshack the other day wrote in a local paper that if Rafa fails to win something this season, that would be 3 seasons without winning anything remarkable, and in a top club that might mean changes.

And you know what? that's often true.

So you can't be surprised people at some point want a change, it's a natural thing in a football fan. However, I'm not in that group, I think Liverpool are not decaying but building up and strenghtening, Ferguson talks about us because we're up there to be their major enemies, I see progress. And as long as I see progress and not decay I preffer to keep the manager.

its not so much the fact that people are asking 4 a change i completely understand that people question rafas tactics & if hes the man 2 be in charge

it just annoys me when i read on her r in papers about the money weve spent it really gets 2 me 

when its still less then the teams were meant 2 be challenging who had better squads then us in the first place aswell

but its like they all choose 2 leave that bit out

[LegBarnes]

I would have though it was obvious what micks stance was without needing his opening post in here

Yes it was. He's been consistent on his criticism and he has explained it. But 2 or 3 months ago I was reading all that criticism, and thus, I didn't understand how he was ok with the idea of giving Rafa a new contract. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he did.

Now, the conclussion he has reached of getting rid of the manager is consistent with his criticism. I mean, if you don't trust the methods, you don't agree team selections, and you don't see his a good tactician, if you don't think we've progressed, if you also dislike the signing up policy, it's normal you don't want the manager here. And now he has said so explicitly.

You do know now you have invoked the warth of Mick now for that statement expect a 24000 word essay. 

[LegBarnes]

Just as an add-on, and it should go without saying, but Parry needs to go regardless of what happens to Rafa.  He's an easy target but there's a reason why he gets blamed for transfer-related gaffs.

I agree 100% , who knows whats going on with him rafa and owners but there is someting going on and I feel most fans just don't trust him any more and hense he has to go 100%.

Even if its just bcos he helped get those 2 yanks in. 

[Sean]

Rafa is doing a Houllier and losing the plot.  However, if he leaves I reckon Alonso, Reina and dare I say it Torres may seek a fresh challenge back in Spain.  There would certainly be tempting offers for them.  The only thing that would keep them at Anfield would be if a really big name came in to take over.....and I reckon the only name that fits is Jose Mourinho who is itching to have another crack at the premiership.

[bigmick]

Firstly thanks to everyone for not getting stuck in, its been surprising and refreshing. Most people seem to be of the opinion that I'm simply voicing what I've thought anyway for some time, but while there's definately some truth in that it's not the whole story. I've had major concerns for a long time it's true, but I've managed to overcome those in my mind with the fact that Rafa is a good tactician (particularly defensively) and the fac that we were top of the league.

While we were top all appeared kind of OK. Not totally OK because as I said on numerous occasions, it was and is a fairly weak league and even then, we were busy making a mess of it. Whatever and whereever though, we dropped the ridiculous mass rotation from day one policy and found ourselves top of the league. We signed a proven Premiership player, and by and large we were going all out for the win. I still say that whatever happens from here we have seen a genuine title challenge, and for that the manager deserves credit.

I have though been watching Rafa closely (well as close as you can fom 12000 miles away) and have been paying partuicular attention to how he handles the pressure now the team has found itself top of the league (and I use the last phrase deliberately). I have watched to see if he is prepared to put himself on the line for his team, to take the heat of the magnifying glass off them. I have watched and looked specifically at team selections, substitutions and tactical set-ups to see if he has maintained the attacking philosophy in the face of the inevitable onslaught from the Mancs. I have watched how he has utilised the players at his disposal, maximising their potential and cajoling every last ounce of ability out of them. I have watched, because that's what you need to win the Premiership. Everyone down to the tealady must pull in the same direction, everyone must give their all for the cause.

I have watched and I've been bitterly disappointed. I think, and this may sound silly, I've been let down by the manager. We have wasted the best chance we've had probably ever to win the Premiership, to stop the Mancs, by a succession of absolutely ridiculous gaffe's which you couldn't make up. I won't revisit them all now, but he has IMHO fallen apart under the pressure to an extent which I don't think anybody could have forseen. "Rafa's cracking up" is echoing around football grounds throughout the country but they're wrong. They should go back to school, it's past tense not present.

And so my patience has snapped. I am more convinced than ever that he won't deliver the holy grail, and so it's time to change.   

One other point which somebody raised which was absolutely fair. They pointed out that I've said we have been good enough to challenge for three seasons now. I do still believe that, despite my criticism of Rafa's squad building. If everyone is fit, we are more than capable of putting out a team which is capable of a challenge I still believe that. Our full backs are decent, centre halfs decent, goalkeeper top, wide midfielders average, central midfielders excellent. We do though also have Torres and we have Gerrard, the latter being the best player in the World today IMHO. Equally, I would argue that the squad was stronger last season than this (with the notable exception of Riera) as Finnan and Riise were certainly better than Dossena and the other fella who's name escapes me right now. Equally, Ryan Babel was not too bad when he played now and then either.

[account deleted by request]

Rafa's had me worried for some time now, if I'm honest.  The first problem was his attempt to offload Alonso this summer.  Whatever you want to say about Xabi's form in the past 18 months, he's still one of our top players and clubs that challenge for honours don't usually try and get rid of their top players unless they have someone truly exceptional ready to step into the void (and Gareth Barry, good as he is, does not fit the bill).  My worries were continued after a few games watching Dossena play.  As Mick would say, we spunked a lot of money on a lad who, if I'm charitable, is remarkably out of his depth in English football.  I would hope our scouting system would have sussed that out and the fact that we signed him anyway is a problem.  Of late, though, the flashing neon sign that things aren't right is the situation with Robbie Keane.  Some still contend that Keane's been so poor for us that he deserves to be dropped.  I don't agree (since other players who are also not pulling up trees still get plenty of minutes) but no one can convince that he's not even worth a spot on the bench against the Bitters and against Chelsea today, if reports are to be believed.  Whether Rafa was 100% gung-ho to make him our big money signing this summer or not is irrelevant, IMO.  He's head and shoulders above everyone else at the club when it comes to be Torres' understudy and we bloody well should have been taking advantage of his talents while Torres was out for all those matches.  Seeing him sat on the bench while we played Kuyt alone up top in a 4-5-1 was torture and a sign that Rafa's agenda, whatever it is, is not serving the best interests of the team.  I'll wait to see how things go for the rest of the season because I would not put it beyond us to go on a very good run and look a much different prospect (kind of like last year).  There are, however, some managerial eccentricities surfacing at the moment that no run of good results should be permitted to obscure.  Rafa needs to get a grip, and quickly, to keep his job.

Good post Bob. I am probably a little further along the line than you mate, but I also think we should wait till the summer...... both to decide on a new contract and to decide whether he stays or goes.

In all likelyhood I think he will get what he has asked for and a new contract, but I am very unhappy how he seems to have manipulated the club and certain players to get it.

[mart]

The only thing that would keep them at Anfield would be if a really big name came in to take over.....and I reckon the only name that fits is Jose Mourinho who is itching to have another crack at the premiership.

I find it very unlikely that Mourinho would come here, especially if the americans are still in charge. We will probably end up with Klinsmann or someone similar.

[sgs]

IMO it takes a monumental level of mental disconnect for anyone to suggest that the solution lies in sacking Rafa.

Liverpool is technically a few months from recievership, its owners cannot agree whether to sell, who to sell to, or by how much, its CEO is clueless, its academy system has been unviable for more than a decade, and in the midst of this someone truly wants the manager sacked! The manager who, WITH ALL HIS FAULTS, is to only semblance of progress in the club in the last 9 years...

Gimme a fvvcking break!

[Lando_Griffin]

I'll walk past this Inbred Association AGM as gracefully as possible...

[Ciggy]

I'll walk past this Inbred Association AGM as gracefully as possible...

If we draw against Portsmouth next week will you say the same Lando? Why are people inbreds because Rafa has fecked up? Please?

[Lando_Griffin]

Because sacking Rafa is the stupidest idea the members of this board have ever come up with, and would set the club into complete free-fall.

No other manager would be able to cope with the sh*t the owners have brought to the club.

No one.