Liverpool FC Forum

[ConnO'var]

Personally, I don't think that the squad is that far off the pace that we need 5 new players or such. The key, I think is utilising the players we have, in ways that suit the team. Of the current squad, I would personally utilise a different system.... If we persist in a 4-4-2, we are about 5 players short.... agree with Bob 100%. Plus we will have issues with "benching" the quality players we currently DO have.

As such I would suggest that we go for a 5-3-2 with 2 genuine quality wingbacks and either a creative striker (to play behind Torres) or a hulking, great, big, strong centre forward with good ability in the air and capable of hold-up play (for Torres to play off).


                                  Reina

                      Skrtel    Carra    Agger
new wingback                               new wingback

                      Alonso Gerrard Mascherano

                         Torres   New Striker

We'd still have a pretty good selection for the bench to back up

1. Lucas
2. Babel (until he's ready even though I still have my doubts about the lad)
3. Hyypia
4. Arbeloa
5. Finnan
6. Riise
7. Benayoun (though I think he'll be on his way if DIC takes over)
8. Aurelio

We'll need a new back-up GK coz Intandje just can't hack it, IMO.
Promote El-Zhar if he's ready, else, get a couple of free transfer strikers of repute.

Pennant, Kewell, Voronin and Kuyt.... we should be rid as I don't think that they are Liverpool standard (Based on current form and not on past history)
Crouch,with deepest regret,  unless he's content with being a 3rd choice striker, needs to be sold at a profit.


I know that 5-3-2 is a rather archaic system and not many use it these days but if properly set-up, it can be devastating in attack and suffocating in defense.

Question really is, who do we get to fill in the gaps?
It's no secret that I really rate Alves and IMO we should move heaven and earth to get him signed up for the RwB position.
The LwB is a real problem as there seems to be dearth of quality in this position right now.... Philipp Lahm and Gianluca Zambrotta are the only real candidates but I would prefer the german as he is younger.
Upfront, I'm not so sure as I simply do not know enough about what's available in other leagues. The ideal fit for me would be a Tevez or Keane or Carew or Santa Cruz type player.

So to summarize, the squad is good enough to challenge and come close but we need the finishing touches to take us to the next level. 3 players ought to do it.
I prefer 2 wingbacks as opposed to 2 wingers as I feel that they tend to be more reliable and are easier to find than true quality wingers who are usually rarer and more expensive.

I like your ideas and i think that you have chosen the right players to be rid of, however i think this formation is highly unlikely i dont see us buying two new wing backs.

3-5-2 just brings back awful memories of a back three of Ruddock, Phil Babb and John Scales with Jason McAteer and Stig Bjornbye as wing backs.

In my opinion in the modern game for Liverpool to play that system they would need wing backs of the highest calibre, such as Daniel Alves and Phillepe Lamb, and both of those players would cost the earth. What is more, neither Jamie Carragher nor Martin Skertel are good enough on the ball for us to truly excel using that formation as the 3 defenders would play more ball in that system than the would in a 4-4-2.

Agreed.... quality out wide is absolutely essential for this to work.

Don't quite agree about the need for 3 ball playing centrebacks though. Two hard men and a ball player should suffice.... and they don't come much harder than Carra.... Skrtel? Only time will tell but from what I've seen of the lad (barring his 1st game), I think theres room for optimism.

[JBG]

Personally, I don't think that the squad is that far off the pace that we need 5 new players or such. The key, I think is utilising the players we have, in ways that suit the team. Of the current squad, I would personally utilise a different system.... If we persist in a 4-4-2, we are about 5 players short.... agree with Bob 100%. Plus we will have issues with "benching" the quality players we currently DO have.

As such I would suggest that we go for a 5-3-2 with 2 genuine quality wingbacks and either a creative striker (to play behind Torres) or a hulking, great, big, strong centre forward with good ability in the air and capable of hold-up play (for Torres to play off).


                                  Reina

                      Skrtel    Carra    Agger
new wingback                               new wingback

                      Alonso Gerrard Mascherano

                         Torres   New Striker

We'd still have a pretty good selection for the bench to back up

1. Lucas
2. Babel (until he's ready even though I still have my doubts about the lad)
3. Hyypia
4. Arbeloa
5. Finnan
6. Riise
7. Benayoun (though I think he'll be on his way if DIC takes over)
8. Aurelio

We'll need a new back-up GK coz Intandje just can't hack it, IMO.
Promote El-Zhar if he's ready, else, get a couple of free transfer strikers of repute.

Pennant, Kewell, Voronin and Kuyt.... we should be rid as I don't think that they are Liverpool standard (Based on current form and not on past history)
Crouch,with deepest regret,  unless he's content with being a 3rd choice striker, needs to be sold at a profit.


I know that 5-3-2 is a rather archaic system and not many use it these days but if properly set-up, it can be devastating in attack and suffocating in defense.

Question really is, who do we get to fill in the gaps?
It's no secret that I really rate Alves and IMO we should move heaven and earth to get him signed up for the RwB position.
The LwB is a real problem as there seems to be dearth of quality in this position right now.... Philipp Lahm and Gianluca Zambrotta are the only real candidates but I would prefer the german as he is younger.
Upfront, I'm not so sure as I simply do not know enough about what's available in other leagues. The ideal fit for me would be a Tevez or Keane or Carew or Santa Cruz type player.

So to summarize, the squad is good enough to challenge and come close but we need the finishing touches to take us to the next level. 3 players ought to do it.
I prefer 2 wingbacks as opposed to 2 wingers as I feel that they tend to be more reliable and are easier to find than true quality wingers who are usually rarer and more expensive.

I like your ideas and i think that you have chosen the right players to be rid of, however i think this formation is highly unlikely i dont see us buying two new wing backs.

3-5-2 just brings back awful memories of a back three of Ruddock, Phil Babb and John Scales with Jason McAteer and Stig Bjornbye as wing backs.

In my opinion in the modern game for Liverpool to play that system they would need wing backs of the highest calibre, such as Daniel Alves and Phillepe Lamb, and both of those players would cost the earth. What is more, neither Jamie Carragher nor Martin Skertel are good enough on the ball for us to truly excel using that formation as the 3 defenders would play more ball in that system than the would in a 4-4-2.

Agreed.... quality out wide is absolutely essential for this to work.

Don't quite agree about the need for 3 ball playing centrebacks though. Two hard men and a ball player should suffice.... and they don't come much harder than Carra.... Skrtel? Only time will tell but from what I've seen of the lad (barring his 1st game), I think theres room for optimism.

Our problem under Benitez Con is that our midfielders never seem to want to take possession of the ball from the centre backs and thus we see situations where Carra knocks it long or where Hyppia tries to play it but not quite having the ability to do something constructive with it. ALL of our midfielders should be looking for the ball, turning, head up, and starting a positive move up the field. Xabi Alonso is a guy perfectly suited to this but for one reason or another never really does it. I reckon its definitely been in his nature but I suspect its a case of tactics coming into play with Rafa asking his midfielders to press higher up the pitch and allow the centre backs move the ball forward.

If we had three centre halves, given the way we play, this could become a genuine problem.

[ConnO'var]

Our problem under Benitez Con is that our midfielders never seem to want to take possession of the ball from the centre backs and thus we see situations where Carra knocks it long or where Hyppia tries to play it but not quite having the ability to do something constructive with it. ALL of our midfielders should be looking for the ball, turning, head up, and starting a positive move up the field. Xabi Alonso is a guy perfectly suited to this but for one reason or another never really does it. I reckon its definitely been in his nature but I suspect its a case of tactics coming into play with Rafa asking his midfielders to press higher up the pitch and allow the centre backs move the ball forward.

If we had three centre halves, given the way we play, this could become a genuine problem.

That's just it JBG. Your analysis of how we set up when we play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 is absolutely spot on. Keep in mind that there are plenty of other teams out there who use 4-4-2/4-5-1 and do not have the particular problem that seems to plague us as you correctly pointed out.

The problem is not the formation itself but the way we utilize the said formations. With 3 centre-backs and 3 central midfielders, it would be extremely foolhardy to bypass the midfield by hoofing the ball long which deprives us of control in the middle of the park. I think most would agree with that and any attempts to play higher up the park would congest the midfield. A 5-3-2 is the type of formation that suits a passing team which utilizes angles, triangles, short passes and ingenuity.

In short, it's not just that the formation that needs changing but the mindset as well. I feel that with the 4 class central midfielders that we do have, we are eminently suited to the classic 5-3-2.

[Boocity]

2. Babel (until he's ready even though I still have my doubts about the lad)

I think you are a bit harsh on him, I believe he will turn out to be an excellent player. His problem at the moment is that he is constantly played out of position, give him the opportunity to play up frnt with Torres and maybe we do not need a new striker.
I think our main priorities is someone who can actually provide regular quality crosses.

I probably am Boo......

I'm not questioning his physical abilities or talent.... I think that theres ample evidence to suggest he's got all of that.

Where I'm a little worried is his hunger, attitude and mental agility.... that's one aspect that nobody can help him with.... You can teach knowledge, skill, tactics etc but nobody on earth can teach attitude IMO.

Perhaps he'll be better in these areas once he matures.... and I sincerely hope that he does.

It'll be such a waste of talent if he doesn't.... I've seen too many players fall by the way side because of attitude.

I think you are right on his attitude but this can be down to petulance at not being played in his proper position hopefully this will change once he matures.

[Owzat]

Have to agree with JBG and co about 3-5-2 being a bad idea not worth reviving. It has to be 4-4-2, what we need is to improve the quality on the flanks. Keeper is class, CBs are good enough, centre midfield could do with some more depth but isn't a big problem so the only problem down the middle is lacking a second quality striker and probably we need 2 or three. We could do with two quality FBs and a player either side, so for me we're 5-7 short of a title squad.

GK - Reina, Itandje
FB - Finnan, Arbeloa +2 new
CB - Carra, Agger, Skrtel, Hyypia
CM - Mascherano, Lucas, Gerrard, Alonso
WG - Babel, Benayoun +2 new
CF - Torres, Kuyt + 2 new

As long as the +2s are quality then that makes the competition stronger, problem is we need to have Arbeloa and Finnan at FBs and our wide play is not good enough. And of course only Torres scores enough up front, add the names of your choice to the +2s and see how good you think it could be. Reckon if we did have £50m to spend we might just manage a title challenge, assuming the players perform that is

[ConnO'var]

Have to agree with JBG and co about 3-5-2 being a bad idea not worth reviving. It has to be 4-4-2, what we need is to improve the quality on the flanks. Keeper is class, CBs are good enough, centre midfield could do with some more depth but isn't a big problem so the only problem down the middle is lacking a second quality striker and probably we need 2 or three. We could do with two quality FBs and a player either side, so for me we're 5-7 short of a title squad.

GK - Reina, Itandje
FB - Finnan, Arbeloa +2 new
CB - Carra, Agger, Skrtel, Hyypia
CM - Mascherano, Lucas, Gerrard, Alonso
WG - Babel, Benayoun +2 new
CF - Torres, Kuyt + 2 new

As long as the +2s are quality then that makes the competition stronger, problem is we need to have Arbeloa and Finnan at FBs and our wide play is not good enough. And of course only Torres scores enough up front, add the names of your choice to the +2s and see how good you think it could be. Reckon if we did have £50m to spend we might just manage a title challenge, assuming the players perform that is

If it has to be a 4-4-2, then a shift in philosophy is needed. We simply have to stop bypassing the midfield when moving the ball up from the back.

The fact that most people think that we are 5-7 players short of being title contenders is a bit worrying. 4 wide players and another striker is going to mean major investment. 50 million quid is not going to be sufficient, IMO, in today's market climate.

We'll end up with squad players yet again and it would be my contention that we are screaming out for quality players NOW. Even if funds were available for that kind of outlay, it'll take time again for the team to gel if we're gonna bed in 5-7 players in our 1st eleven. And then what are we going to do with regards to the clear oversupply of quality in central midfield? How are we going to keep everyone happy? Assuming Stevie is a nailed on cert for one of the spots, we have 3 quality players competing for 1 space. What do we do then? Rotate again? If this is how we're going to set up, we need to sacrifice one central midfielder either sell Alonso or don't sign Mascherano. Neither of these options are palatable to me. If nothing else, something needs to be done to keep em all happy.....

Or do we then move Stevie out right again? He's great there but he will leave the right sided fullback exposed when he's given license to roam. Besides, it's only a temporary measure and an ill advised quick fix imho. I don't think that it's a good idea to solve the position out wide on the right by playing a truly great central midfielder there, Much better to solve the root cause of the problem and get in a specialist winger. Then the vicious circle starts again. Keeping 4 talented men competing for 2 spots happy.... and hey presto! We're back to rotation again.

[liado]

I feel the impression(only a very personal opinion when he is interviewed by Spanish media) that if Rafa stays is going to push Valencia to bring Villa(a bad season, and he is really fed up)or Silva .In Valencia everything is a hudge muddle at this moment and I suspect at least one of them is leaving mestalla next season.Real Madrid will be a problem to bring villa, I am absolutely certain They have been talking to him.
My personnal taste is Silva although in the premier I guess he will be beaten to pulp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot4VKp1d7GQ

It seems like Villa is about to speak out. He has jut said to a local Tv "I Think in my future, I will listen to everyone´s offers"
While it is said Real Madrid is signing Diego according to German media.
I wish Sooner or later SILVA starts to do the same
http://www.marca.com/edicion....01.html

[maypaxvobiscum]

gk - reina, carson

def - arbeloa, insua, skertel, agger, carra, aurelio

mid - gerrard, mash, alonso, lucas, pennant, banayoun

sc - torres, babel, crouch


just buy 3 players - richards or onuoha from man city. schweinteiger from bayern, matias hernandez that chilean midfielder, joe cole would be nice, as would agbonlahor too. and joaquin or vicente. someone with lightning pace.

give a chance to reserve players like el zhar, nemeth, san jose, leto.

[stmichael]

just buy 3 players - richards or onuoha from man city. schweinteiger from bayern, matias hernandez that chilean midfielder, joe cole would be nice, as would agbonlahor too. and joaquin or vicente. someone with lightning pace.

simple as that. you should be our manager.

[Yari7]

We need a bit more pace. We have the blistering ace of Torres and Babel. Gerrard can alo break quickly, but we need some blistering pace ont he right hand side as well. Someone who is fast, can beat their man and can deliver quality balls into the box.

I can't help but think that maybe if we had given Djbril Cisse one more year, he could have flourished on the right hand side with his pace. He also had decent delivery and played pretty well ont he right and he got goals from that position unlike Pennant and Kuyt.

[maypaxvobiscum]

just buy 3 players - richards or onuoha from man city. schweinteiger from bayern, matias hernandez that chilean midfielder, joe cole would be nice, as would agbonlahor too. and joaquin or vicente. someone with lightning pace.

simple as that. you should be our manager.

ok

[Owzat]

If we're looking at what could/should remain :-

Stay (13) : Reina, Finnan, Skrtel, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Benayoun, Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Babel, Torres

Maybe (2) : Aurelio, Kuyt

OUT/need replacing or improving on (7) :

Itandje - keeps well with the odd mistake, we can do better
Riise - not good enough defensively for a LB, not good enough on the ball for a LM
Hyypia - too slow, we have three good CBs and the fourth should be nearer 18 than 30
Kewell - never quite worked out
Pennant  - doesn't do enough crossing, scoring or beating defenders
Voronin - not stayed fit, not sure we've missed him much either
Crouch - some people's idea of something different, doesn't score enough or contribute enough

If you take the 13/15 and add 7 good quality replacements then that should strengthen the first XI and reserves. What it does highlight is a lack of quality wide players in midfield, strikers and a shortness of FBs

[Emerald Red]

It's a little lacking. But not as much as some people like to think IMO.

We need two quality players. One a first team player, and the other a quality squad player. Both in attacking positions. Right wing, and a partner for Torres.

Rafa addressed our need for a world class striker. He delivered that. He also fixed - or at least patched up - our problem on the left (Harry Kewell is now a disgrace and must be flogged on, or retire). Kuyt has been doing well as a make-shift right-sided striker or wide man to support Torres. Him playing there is giving us some good balance to our play. Imagine a world class and natural winger where he is now, and a true partner for Torres. We'd be frightening  .
Our Center back problems have also been fixed by two quality signings from Rafa. Skrtyle and Agger. Both young. Both talented. Both potentially world class.

The future foundations are set.

[Thingy]

Outs :
Itandje
Riise
Benayoun
Kewell
Finnan ( If we get a decent young right back)
Kuyt
Crouch
Voronin
Alonso Could go
In:
Rafina
Silva
Mancini
Milito
Zanetti ?

Thats a mixture of what I think will happen and what id like to see. Dunno about 3 strikers leaving but to be good enough we have to. Get someone like Milito in, Babel will play there more often and blood Nemeth. Zanetti maybe if Alonso goes, or Albelda. Maybe if we have enough money get a Lb, if not im confident in Insua and Aurellio, with Carra and Arbeloa Filling in if need be.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Outs :
Itandje
Riise
Benayoun
Kewell
Finnan ( If we get a decent young right back)
Kuyt
Crouch
Voronin
Alonso Could go
In:
Rafina
Silva
Mancini
Milito
Zanetti ?

Thats a mixture of what I think will happen and what id like to see. Dunno about 3 strikers leaving but to be good enough we have to. Get someone like Milito in, Babel will play there more often and blood Nemeth. Zanetti maybe if Alonso goes, or Albelda. Maybe if we have enough money get a Lb, if not im confident in Insua and Aurellio, with Carra and Arbeloa Filling in if need be.

javier zanetti?