Regardless of who is manager next season, - How good is the squad of players?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby bigmick » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:20 pm

Something Saint posted on another thread a couple of days ago got me thinking. There was debate obviously on the managers position and whether or not it would be possible to tempt a top replacement, given the state of our finances and the squad which is in place. Obviously even if Rafa stays, our performances and position in the league this season would appear to indicate we are going to need to strengthen if we want to get nearer to the top of the table. Mention was made of the opinion that a couple of our blokes are possibly reaching the twilight of their career, and that in actual fact our squad for next season is in need of surgery which goes a little deeper than the cosmetic variety.

I was just wondering how posters see our squad going forward, not in terms of "we should go out and buy such and such" but more in terms of what we realistically need, and why. If needs be you could mention names of players which probably need to be moved on, but when people (probably correctly) talk of stalwarts like Finnan and Carragher possibly being past their absolute best, there is probably some thinking which needs to be done.

My take is this:


Goalkeepers. I like Reina obviously, but am unsure about the number two. I'd quite like to see us pick up an experienced keeper from the game here in England as number two. Someone who could contribute in terms of morale and spirit, and who would consider it an honour to be on the bench for the club. Behind them I would use the youth/reserve keepers, whoever they are.

Defenders. I like Aurelio, but lets face it the fella's never fit. Arbeloa is a good if not exceptional player IMHO and worthy of a starting slot probably at right back, while Riise and Hyppia are almost certainly in decline. Finnan too looks like he's suffering from the absense of Gerrard on the right and is past his best, while even Carragher could be slightly on the way down. Agger is a good player if we can get him "right" again, while having only seen Skyrtel fleetingly (but feck it I know it's early and all that!) my suspicion is that he's probably a number three centre half rather than one of your first two. I guess longer term (as in next season) I would start the campain with Carragher and Agger as forst choice centre halves, Skyrtel as cover with Arbeloa at right back (Finnan as cover). We probably need though a top quality left back and they don't come cheap. I would then in all honesty probably keep Riise as cover and move Aurelio on to a less physical league. I would keep Sami as centre half number four if he's prepared to do that (and possibly look at some sort of coaching role) and keep Finnan as right back cover. The feeling persists though that at either right back or left back we are going to need to get at some stage somebody who can hurt the opposition going forward.

Midfielders. Assuming they all want to stay (I'm not certain that Xabi will now it appears he's third choice central midfielder, I see it like this. Obviously in central midfield we have our strongest area of the pitch in terms of quality and depth. My feeling is though that while Babel, Pennant and Benayoun are Ok as the "other" winger in a good team, we are going to at some stage need a top quality wide man. By that I mean somebody who scores and makes goals on a regular basis. These don't come cheap but I can't help thinking we need at least one such player. If we are short of cash (which we probably are) I would advocate moving Gerrard out to the right. This would depend of course on him buying into the idea. If we did this, it would free up a spot for Alonso as well as giving us some threat out wide. It's almost certainly the best option IMHO for a number of reasons.

Strikers. Obviously Torres is the only genuine top-quality front man we've got. Crouch is fine as number three choice, and as such would get loads of games with injuries/cups/rotation/substitutions. We do though definately need a top quality striker to replace Kuyt, and another new striker to replace Voronin. We might be able to promote from within for the number four slot, but a purchase for the number two position looks a minimum requirement.


Conclusion-I think I've been on the conservative side in my assessment to be honest. Obviously given the cash I'd love to say we could sign a bunch of players, but my suspicion is we are going to be severely restricted. As a minimum I would have thought we will need a full back and a striker who can instantly walk into the first team. I'd also like to sign a top class right or left midfielder, but we might be able to get around that by playing Gerrard on the right. This is assuming of course that we don't adopt a 4-5-1 or something similar, or that Babel or Lucas don't suddenly blossom into filling one of the positions which need filling. What do you reckon, do we need a rebuild or an ongoing repair?

Disclaimer- I've tried to keep the post pretty neutral in terms of whether or not the manager should stay next season, or be blamed/praised for the current state of the squad. If posters could keep it that way it'd be good as there's lots of threads like that already.
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Postby ruskiy playmaker » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:38 pm

The squad is not good enough, we desperately need a quality FB,CF, an a winger like you mentioned.  We've constantly struggled to break sides down in the premier league this year, not due to rotation but because we don't have the quality and the speed in the wide positions and upfront.
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Postby redtrader74 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:39 pm

Remove Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin, Kewell, Carson, Riise.

Buying a striker somewhere near Torres' class is a must. Most of our drawn games this season have not been down to lack of creation, more a lack of cutting edge up top. This would cost us nothing if we got rid of the above. WHatever the budget for transfers that is given should go on a left winger. Basically buy big and quality only.
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Postby Judge » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:40 pm

no disrespect mick, but we have oodles ( :D ) of threads as this one with similar connetations in them

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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:46 pm

Here's how I see it Mick.

Reina (no questions)
Finnan (best we have)
Carra (no questions)
Agger (no questions)
Arbeloa (I'd prefer him on the right, but since our left backs are sh!t he's suffering)
Pennant (good enough at the moment, and we need better elsewhere before right wing)
Gerrard (picks himself)
Mascheranho/Lucas/Alonso (couldn't care less which 1)
Babel (given a sustained run, could prove to be the attacking answer)
Torres (picks himself)
Crouch (if we're struggling for money, he's good enough at the moment)

On transfers, I'd taken Bentley or Lennon if we can't get either I think Pennant is still a good enough choice out wide, so I wouldn't worry to much there. Micah Richards would still be my first choice if we're looking for a right back (pricey mind you), because when he's played there for England he's a threat going forward both in open play (overlapping and crossing) as well as set plays (his height and ability to score as well as his long throw). Forward wise I'd like to take someone from the prem because I know about them. Ashley Young for straight out pace (also can interchange with Babel down the left, might be pricey though) if we have to go through europe, one player I've liked the look of for some time is Miroslav Klose, but again price may be a struggle.

So starting again on transfers for people we can afford. Full back put Insua in, and shift Arbeloa out to the right. Up front Doyle (Reading, he runs alot like Kuyt, and can score) Jones (Sunderland a stronger version of Crouch) or Defoe (Portsmouth, someone who actually can score and is a predator). The wings if money is tight, Anderson/Hamill should be given a go.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:56 pm

You explained things well Mick. My feeling towards the start of the season was that there are 4 areas in the first 11 that need addressing and nothing has changed.

The most glaring area, and the area that we have been cr@p in for the past 10 years is the right and left sided midfield positions. When I saw the team sheet for the first game of the season and saw Pennant and Riise on either side I resigned myself to the fact that we would not win the league, and this was before we even kicked a ball. These positions need to be filled with quality players who can score and create goals and will terrify the opposition. Benayoun and Babel are decent cover for these areas, with Babel also doubling up as cover for our strikers, but Pennant, Kewell and Leto don’t offer much.

We need a strike partner for Torres. I think he could work with a target man or a striker who prefers playing a more withdrawn role but he must be top quality and not a compromise signing. We could sell Kuyt and Voronin, bring in a striker to partner Torres, have Crouch as first back up and let Babel and Nemeth share 4th choice.

The final area is left back, Aurelio looks good but is constantly injured, and Riise is an O.K left back but nothing more. I could live with these 2 covering left back next season but if we had the money and a quality left back was available I would move Riise on and generate some funds.

If I was planning for the summer I would have something like this in mind:

                               Reina
                               Itandje
                               Mihaylov

Finnan          Carragher          Agger         New Player
Arbeloa           Skrtel             Hyypia        Aurelio

New Player   Gerrard            Alonso        New Player
Benayoun        Lucas          Mascherano    Babel

                      Torres         New Player
                      Crouch        Nemeth
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Postby Aaron » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:12 am

Outs

Itandje - Useless
Finnan - Past it
Hyypia - Past it
Riise - Time here is up
Aurelio - Not good enough
Pennant - Not good enough
Kewell - Not good enough
Voronin - Useless
Kuyt - Not good enough

That leaves:

Reina
Skrtel
Carra
Arbeloa
Agger
Benayoun
SG
Mascherano
Alonso
Lucas
Crouch
Torres
Babel

I'd bring in a quality back up GK, another CB, another RB, 2 LB's, another RW, another LW and 2 Strikers. Thats 9 players I feel we need before we can seriously think about challenging for the league.

I think if Rafa was given a bucket of cash to spend he is capable of building a squad that can win the league. I will even go as far as saying that his rotation policy will work, only with a good all round squad. We simply dont have that.

Look at the top 3, they have quality back up GK's. We dont. They have quality back up CB's, we dont. They have quality back up wingers, we dont. Most importantly they have at least 2 world class strikers, we dont.

Thats the difference between us challenging and not.
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Postby taff » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:13 am

Away from the Rafa debate I forgot how much I agree with Bigmick :D

Goalkeepers
Reina
Dont care as I hope he wont play that much :D

Central defence
Carragher
Agger
Skrtel (cover, rotation whatever)
Hypia as senior guy not sure when contract runs out

Left back
Aurelio
Would love to see Bridge or equivelant

Right back
Arbeloa
Finan as the squad player

Central Midfield
Mash
Alonso
Lucas

Rotate these three :D

Right midfield
Gerrard
Penant

Left midfield
Babel
Break the bank on a world class player

Up Front
Torres
Kuyt
Crouch
Again break the bank

Squad and rotating
Benayoun
Promote two maybe three from reserves

Riise, Voronin to sell. Maybe Kuyt if we get good offer.

If we have money
Good left back
Spend loads on left midfield and striker.

Would like to see reserves join squad especially with new replacement allowance.

Kewell, As it stand then release unless Rafa sees something in training we dont see on the pitch but I think its over for him.  The only reprieve I can possibly see is he relaces Voronin as creative second striker as he cant cut it out wide anymore but still has the skill and brain to be effective.  But in a rotation role second to the 20 million we spend on another striker.

SG can still spend some time in the middle with this squad as we potentially would have Pennant, Benayoun and Babel for this role. Can also see Lucas being more involved.  Alonso has been injured and can see him coming back to be more involved. 

Even if we did rotate with this squad we rotate with good options and possibilities  :D

But we need three big buys and for that we can probably say goodbye to a few players. I assume its goodbye to Kuyt, Riise and Voronin
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Postby Judge » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:15 am

taff wrote:Away from the Rafa debate I forgot how much I agree with Bigmick :D

i just forgot   :D
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Postby bigmick » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:23 am

Judge wrote:
taff wrote:Away from the Rafa debate I forgot how much I agree with Bigmick :D

i just forgot   :D

:D In fairness Judge you probably dropped off half way through the opening post. My contributions are like Nightol yo you mate, especially now i'm on a different time-zone. It's tuesday lunch time here, I'll have you snoozing before you know it mate ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz   :D
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Postby Rockthekop » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:32 am

We have a good squad but not a great team, that's the problem.  Our strongest team based on the players we have won't win the premiership.  We need a player like Mancini or Ben Arfa on the wing, a RB like Alves and a top striker.  If we can sort out these areas for starters you'll be looking at a very different Liverpool side.
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:34 am

I think I am maybe a bit too  disillusioned at the moment to give a considered and fair appraisal of our squad but I generally agree with you Mick, although I think I would be a little less tolerant of some of our poorly performing players. I think we need much more pace injected into the team, especially down the flanks.

                                           Reina
                                  New Goalkeeper or Carson

New full back          Carra              Agger                       New full back
Arbeloa                 Skrtel              Hobbs                              Riise


New winger            Gerrard          Mascherano              New winger/left midfielder
Pennant                 Lucas     New defensive midfielder    New winger or Riise

                             Torres           New creative second striker
                             New striker              Babel

Of the rest of the squad, I would keep :- Kewell  for his experience and versatility

PLAYERS TO GO

Itandje    -  no-where near good enough
Hyypia     - too old
Voronin    - Not good enough
Aurelio     - Not shown enough when fit
Alonso     - probably the one I could be persuaded to keep
Crouch    - not a bad player but you need better quality to win the league
Kuyt       - not good enough
Benayoun- It was a choice of him Kewell or Pennant, I wouldn't argue too much if it was one of the others


I don't really know enough about the youngsters to give an opinion.



Riise     - has the ability its a case of getting him to start to play to his best level again
Kewell   - We would get nothing for him, but if we can get him fit and playing well he is worth keeping on a reduced contract
Pennant - needs to raise his level
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:17 am

Goalkeepers

KEEP - Reina, Itanje and Martin

OUT - None

IN - Perhaps an experienced older English keeper?

Defenders

KEEP - Skrtel, Arbeloa, Carragher, Aggar, Insua,

OUT - Riise, Finnan, Hyypia, Aurelio (if we get good offers for any of them).

IN - Lahm, Mertesacker, Richards (if we can afford any of them).

Midfielders

KEEP - Gerrard, Masch, Alonso, Babel, Benayoun, Lucas.

OUT - Kewell, Pennant (if we get good offers for any of them).

IN - Bentley, Pedersen, Ashley Young, Lennon, Van Der Vaart (if we can afford any of them).

Strikers

KEEP - Torres

OUT - Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt (if we get good offers for any of them).

IN - Huntelaar, Klose, Milito (if we can afford any of them).


Manager

IN - Mourinho

OUT - Rafa.
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Postby JoeTerp » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:29 am

this is going to sound scary BigMick, but I posted nearly the same exact suggestions in another thread.  I think Arbeloa is good enough to start on either flank in the premier league, which is why I would be fine to go after any quality fullback regardless of footednes, meaning that both Lahm and Alves would be in play if we had the cash.  Whichever side Arbeloa ends up playing on, that respective 1st teamer should be kept on.  SOrry i am getting really tired from writing papers I must get some sleep
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Postby tubby » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:50 am

We need a seriosu overhaul of our squad. I think the result against Barsnley showed that we still dont have the depth like the other teams for competing in mulpitple competitons. Everone said why didnt Rafa play Gerrard but we shouldnt need him for a Championship team.

Itandje - To go
Finnan - Has served his time now lets get a world class RB - To go
Hyypia - Past his sell by date - To go
Riise - To go
Aurelio - To go (he was a free anyway so I dont know why people were expecting him to be good. Free players are normally :censored:)
Pennant - Not good enough, was never the world class winger we had in mind, only 2nd best - To go
Kewell - Not good enough, is always injured - To go
Voronin - biggest load of :censored: ive seen since Paul Dickov - To go
Kuyt - not worth even half of what we paid for him - To go

So our team then:

Reina
Skrtel
Carra
Arbeloa
Agger
Benayoun
SG
Mascherano
Alonso
Lucas
Crouch
Torres
Babel

We still need a world class winger on both the left and right sides not to mention a world class RB. A new proven striker is a must also.

The thing is the longer we go without buying world/top class players on a regular basis then the overal standard of the team drops and it becomes harder the next year when we need to buy again. In all seriousness we are probabaly looking at having to do a Chelsea and spend obsense amounts of money to ensure we get the world class players we need. Whether that comes with DIC or the curent ownership I dont know. Im just saying thats what we need. No way will be able to compete with the likes of UNited, Chelsea and Arsenal with just buying 1 or maybe 2 half decent players in the summer.

Everyone said before let Rafa have half that money and thansk to his genius he will make a title winning side. Well hes had a chance, more than one and the squad has plunged to new depths. Sorry but a change is in order.
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