Liverpool FC Forum

[GRAHAM01]

i had a feeling in my gut yesterday that Keane wouldnt start weather he did pic up an injury in the warm up i dont know.

i did not know about this but i was told today that he pulled something in the warm down after the bolton game and although it was not that bad rafa was only going to risk he at a big push

again how true it was i'm unsure but that's what i was told?

have to say all in all i was very shocked at the team put at but they did well and made the bar codes look like

just hope we can keep things going like that and the chavs drawing aswell ha come on middlesbro

[Raffmaker]

Just gutted for Sami today. Didnt get his Hatrick.

Having not seen the Razmataz action, we should have been 5 up before we scored the 1st goal!

Just felt a bit sorry for Owen, he must have deeply regretted ever leaving the club.

lol

[aCe']

P.S. A while ago, or last season, I think it was  Ciggy who made a reasonable criticism about the lack of danger in attacking set pieces. That problem, which was evident, seems to be over for some reason.

that reason would be a certain Sami Hyypia... best header we have in our books by a mile

[aCe']

I'm a bit tanked up here so apologies for any speaking out of turn, but that is an absolutely ridiculous team selection. Even if we win, it's still ridiculous. Why? because we are passing up the opportunity to continue Keane's roll. I cannot believe the silliness of it. Quote me when we've won the game 3-0 by all means, that is an absolutely ludicrous team selection.

Hind sight is 20/20 but I could'nt help but notice this comment b/4 the game started..

Is the object of team selection to win a match or to preserve a particular player's form?

It is precisely comments like this that simply turns you off this site sometimes.

Its the team stuupid![B]

The object of team selection is not only in cliche terms, "to take each game as it comes", it's also to build a momentum and a team mentality which carries you to a points total which is the best the group of players can achieve. I think if Keane had played, he would have scored. Just my opinion of course, but if he had scored a goal or two, it would have meant that we had a striker on our hands who had scored in the last three league matches and was absolutely on fire.

Is that important? Well you obviously don't think so, which is fine. I think it is though to be perfectly honest. We are all hoping that Torres is going to come back soon, but there are no certainties. If he doesn't come back and start scoring instantly, infact even if he does, it would be a bit of a result if our 20 million quid second striker was in good form as well. It won't matter of course if we play against teams as good as Newcastle reserves every week, but my guess is we'll play against better teams than that and we'll need someone other than Gerrard to provide a goal threat.

We could on the other hand continue to play Dirk Kuyt up front, and mess around with Keane so he never sure whether or not he's going to play, and whether or not the sub board is going to have his number on it. It may be the case that it doesn't matter, it won't have any effect whatsoever on how well he plays. Then again, it may not.

Then, three or four weeks down the track and we need a goal/performance from our 20 million quid striker and we don't get one, we'll all be scratching our heads and wondering why.

I'm sorry my post is the kind which turns you off the forum. My advice is not to read them anymore because they are all of a similar ilk. Read Emerald Reds posts, or GYBS's, or Sabre's if you are feeling a tad more controversial (no pop at those lads there, simply pointing out that they are a bit more HC than me). Leave mine well alone though, because when you've had a bloke finally get going half way through a season, score 3 times in two matches and you leave him out, the chances are I'll have something to say about it. Sorry and all that, but that's the way it is.

As it is I stand by my opinion voiced before the game. If Keane wasn't injured, not playing him was a ridiculous decision. In actual fact, seeing how bad Newcastle were I'm even more convinced that keane should have played. Against them, I absolutely fail to see how any centre forward could play in that game and not score, or at least have a hatful of chances.

Even deadly Dirk had a shot in the first half, although of course he didn't actually manage to score. Goodness knows how, St James should be one of his favourite grounds after his knee rebound/deflection thing of a couple of seasons ago. Perhaps he remembered what happened to him the next game after he broke his drought, he was dropped of course.

Keane has much to learn.

You build momentum with the team and not the individual. That is a basic fact. Its four years since Benitez took the helm at Liverpool, which roughly translates to nearly four years of tired and ignorant drivel from your likes...

Yesterday it was Crouch, b/4 it was Gerrard; today its Keane!

Four years is long enough to understand any Manager, even a complex one like Benitez..

The man plays to the oppositions strengths and weaknesses  and uses his squad from that strategic perspective, rotating them, not simply to keep players freash (important as it maybe), but to meet the afforesaid strategic end..

Every opposition and game is different and must be seen from the perspective it is played. Similarly, you can only truly assess a manger by first understanding the perspective from which he sees football and the opposition.

Without that, much of your comment is a waste of cyberspace...

hehe... for what its worth i think what hes saying makes way more sense than what ur saying..
also.. ur a fckin waste of cyberspace, cyberair and cyber time...

anyways... ill do u a favor and comment on ur post...

"You build momentum with the team and not the individual. That is a basic fact. Its four years since Benitez took the helm at Liverpool, which roughly translates to nearly four years of tired and ignorant drivel from your likes..."

that is not a basic fact.. basic fact is a team only wins if the individuals perform.. if they dont the team doesnt function.. if Robbie Keane is going to be a started for this club in 9 out of 10 games then it just might sound to some a good idea to play him and allow him to keep his momentum going rather than rest him when he obviously needs no rest... and again.. last comment was uncalled for ... people have different opinions u dont like them u can .. ill leave it at that..

"The man plays to the oppositions strengths and weaknesses  and uses his squad from that strategic perspective, rotating them, not simply to keep players freash (important as it maybe), but to meet the afforesaid strategic end.."

the main problem with the "man" is that he doesnt seem to play to OUR strengths often enough... ur rotation blabbering nonsense with all due respect has cost us 4 years of blah blah blah..fill in the craap u seem to be good at it...

" Every opposition and game is different and must be seen from the perspective it is played. Similarly, you can only truly assess a manger by first understanding the perspective from which he sees football and the opposition.

Without that, much of your comment is a waste of cyberspace... "

Now THAT... thats what id call a waste of cyberspace.. are u trying to tell me that having studied our manager and his style of coaching for the last 4 years u can honestly come out and say his decisions and team selections are the main reason behind any sort of achievment we had in the past few years ? better yet, do u not remember all the draws from last season ? dropping crouch, subbing Keane , benching torres ?
I dont see a league title in our books so surely all the playing to our oppo's strengths and weaknesses bs isnt working a treat like u'd want to make us believe... BASIC FACT.. we draw too many game... BASIC FACT... many are baffled by his decision in many games we draw... BASIC FACT... many believe his selection policy is what led to us drawing way too many games in the last coupla seasons.. 


if ur gonna come out and talk sht atleast do it without dismissing other peoples opinions... they just happen to be way more objective and valid than urs ever will be...

[The Manhattan Project]

I remember when Newcastle/Liverpool games were actually competitive

[Kharhaz]

I remember when Newcastle/Liverpool games were actually competitive

Seems like an age doesnt it? The regular 4-3' ers !

[sgs]

I'm a bit tanked up here so apologies for any speaking out of turn, but that is an absolutely ridiculous team selection. Even if we win, it's still ridiculous. Why? because we are passing up the opportunity to continue Keane's roll. I cannot believe the silliness of it. Quote me when we've won the game 3-0 by all means, that is an absolutely ludicrous team selection.

Hind sight is 20/20 but I could'nt help but notice this comment b/4 the game started..

Is the object of team selection to win a match or to preserve a particular player's form?

It is precisely comments like this that simply turns you off this site sometimes.

Its the team stuupid![B]

The object of team selection is not only in cliche terms, "to take each game as it comes", it's also to build a momentum and a team mentality which carries you to a points total which is the best the group of players can achieve. I think if Keane had played, he would have scored. Just my opinion of course, but if he had scored a goal or two, it would have meant that we had a striker on our hands who had scored in the last three league matches and was absolutely on fire.

Is that important? Well you obviously don't think so, which is fine. I think it is though to be perfectly honest. We are all hoping that Torres is going to come back soon, but there are no certainties. If he doesn't come back and start scoring instantly, infact even if he does, it would be a bit of a result if our 20 million quid second striker was in good form as well. It won't matter of course if we play against teams as good as Newcastle reserves every week, but my guess is we'll play against better teams than that and we'll need someone other than Gerrard to provide a goal threat.

We could on the other hand continue to play Dirk Kuyt up front, and mess around with Keane so he never sure whether or not he's going to play, and whether or not the sub board is going to have his number on it. It may be the case that it doesn't matter, it won't have any effect whatsoever on how well he plays. Then again, it may not.

Then, three or four weeks down the track and we need a goal/performance from our 20 million quid striker and we don't get one, we'll all be scratching our heads and wondering why.

I'm sorry my post is the kind which turns you off the forum. My advice is not to read them anymore because they are all of a similar ilk. Read Emerald Reds posts, or GYBS's, or Sabre's if you are feeling a tad more controversial (no pop at those lads there, simply pointing out that they are a bit more HC than me). Leave mine well alone though, because when you've had a bloke finally get going half way through a season, score 3 times in two matches and you leave him out, the chances are I'll have something to say about it. Sorry and all that, but that's the way it is.

As it is I stand by my opinion voiced before the game. If Keane wasn't injured, not playing him was a ridiculous decision. In actual fact, seeing how bad Newcastle were I'm even more convinced that keane should have played. Against them, I absolutely fail to see how any centre forward could play in that game and not score, or at least have a hatful of chances.

Even deadly Dirk had a shot in the first half, although of course he didn't actually manage to score. Goodness knows how, St James should be one of his favourite grounds after his knee rebound/deflection thing of a couple of seasons ago. Perhaps he remembered what happened to him the next game after he broke his drought, he was dropped of course.

Keane has much to learn.

You build momentum with the team and not the individual. That is a basic fact. Its four years since Benitez took the helm at Liverpool, which roughly translates to nearly four years of tired and ignorant drivel from your likes...

Yesterday it was Crouch, b/4 it was Gerrard; today its Keane!

Four years is long enough to understand any Manager, even a complex one like Benitez..

The man plays to the oppositions strengths and weaknesses  and uses his squad from that strategic perspective, rotating them, not simply to keep players freash (important as it maybe), but to meet the afforesaid strategic end..

Every opposition and game is different and must be seen from the perspective it is played. Similarly, you can only truly assess a manger by first understanding the perspective from which he sees football and the opposition.

Without that, much of your comment is a waste of cyberspace...

hehe... for what its worth i think what hes saying makes way more sense than what ur saying..
also.. ur a fckin waste of cyberspace, cyberair and cyber time...

anyways... ill do u a favor and comment on ur post...

"You build momentum with the team and not the individual. That is a basic fact. Its four years since Benitez took the helm at Liverpool, which roughly translates to nearly four years of tired and ignorant drivel from your likes..."

that is not a basic fact.. basic fact is a team only wins if the individuals perform.. if they dont the team doesnt function.. if Robbie Keane is going to be a started for this club in 9 out of 10 games then it just might sound to some a good idea to play him and allow him to keep his momentum going rather than rest him when he obviously needs no rest... and again.. last comment was uncalled for ... people have different opinions u dont like them u can .. ill leave it at that..

"The man plays to the oppositions strengths and weaknesses  and uses his squad from that strategic perspective, rotating them, not simply to keep players freash (important as it maybe), but to meet the afforesaid strategic end.."

the main problem with the "man" is that he doesnt seem to play to OUR strengths often enough... ur rotation blabbering nonsense with all due respect has cost us 4 years of blah blah blah..fill in the craap u seem to be good at it...

" Every opposition and game is different and must be seen from the perspective it is played. Similarly, you can only truly assess a manger by first understanding the perspective from which he sees football and the opposition.

Without that, much of your comment is a waste of cyberspace... "

Now THAT... thats what id call a waste of cyberspace.. are u trying to tell me that having studied our manager and his style of coaching for the last 4 years u can honestly come out and say his decisions and team selections are the main reason behind any sort of achievment we had in the past few years ? better yet, do u not remember all the draws from last season ? dropping crouch, subbing Keane , benching torres ?
I dont see a league title in our books so surely all the playing to our oppo's strengths and weaknesses bs isnt working a treat like u'd want to make us believe... BASIC FACT.. we draw too many game... BASIC FACT... many are baffled by his decision in many games we draw... BASIC FACT... many believe his selection policy is what led to us drawing way too many games in the last coupla seasons.. 


if ur gonna come out and talk sht atleast do it without dismissing other peoples opinions... they just happen to be way more objective and valid than urs ever will be...

Two things stand out in your post for putting reason on its head:

1. Yes, a 'basic fact is a team only wins if the individuals perform..' IndividualS, not individual. And it is those individualS who collectively build momentum for the team, not one person. So let me say it again: its the team stuupid!

2. No sir, it is not his decisions and team selections that are the main reason behind any sort of achievment we had in the past few years...It is actually the ghost of Shankly!!!

3. The strength of Liverpool is in the squad, not in any one way of playing; a multi-talented squad which allows the coach have tactical flexibility to design play to suit each opponent, or each strategy or change of strategy. Maximum use of that squad is thus what it means to 'play to our strenght'.

[aCe']

I'm a bit tanked up here so apologies for any speaking out of turn, but that is an absolutely ridiculous team selection. Even if we win, it's still ridiculous. Why? because we are passing up the opportunity to continue Keane's roll. I cannot believe the silliness of it. Quote me when we've won the game 3-0 by all means, that is an absolutely ludicrous team selection.

Hind sight is 20/20 but I could'nt help but notice this comment b/4 the game started..

Is the object of team selection to win a match or to preserve a particular player's form?

It is precisely comments like this that simply turns you off this site sometimes.

Its the team stuupid![B]

The object of team selection is not only in cliche terms, "to take each game as it comes", it's also to build a momentum and a team mentality which carries you to a points total which is the best the group of players can achieve. I think if Keane had played, he would have scored. Just my opinion of course, but if he had scored a goal or two, it would have meant that we had a striker on our hands who had scored in the last three league matches and was absolutely on fire.

Is that important? Well you obviously don't think so, which is fine. I think it is though to be perfectly honest. We are all hoping that Torres is going to come back soon, but there are no certainties. If he doesn't come back and start scoring instantly, infact even if he does, it would be a bit of a result if our 20 million quid second striker was in good form as well. It won't matter of course if we play against teams as good as Newcastle reserves every week, but my guess is we'll play against better teams than that and we'll need someone other than Gerrard to provide a goal threat.

We could on the other hand continue to play Dirk Kuyt up front, and mess around with Keane so he never sure whether or not he's going to play, and whether or not the sub board is going to have his number on it. It may be the case that it doesn't matter, it won't have any effect whatsoever on how well he plays. Then again, it may not.

Then, three or four weeks down the track and we need a goal/performance from our 20 million quid striker and we don't get one, we'll all be scratching our heads and wondering why.

I'm sorry my post is the kind which turns you off the forum. My advice is not to read them anymore because they are all of a similar ilk. Read Emerald Reds posts, or GYBS's, or Sabre's if you are feeling a tad more controversial (no pop at those lads there, simply pointing out that they are a bit more HC than me). Leave mine well alone though, because when you've had a bloke finally get going half way through a season, score 3 times in two matches and you leave him out, the chances are I'll have something to say about it. Sorry and all that, but that's the way it is.

As it is I stand by my opinion voiced before the game. If Keane wasn't injured, not playing him was a ridiculous decision. In actual fact, seeing how bad Newcastle were I'm even more convinced that keane should have played. Against them, I absolutely fail to see how any centre forward could play in that game and not score, or at least have a hatful of chances.

Even deadly Dirk had a shot in the first half, although of course he didn't actually manage to score. Goodness knows how, St James should be one of his favourite grounds after his knee rebound/deflection thing of a couple of seasons ago. Perhaps he remembered what happened to him the next game after he broke his drought, he was dropped of course.

Keane has much to learn.

You build momentum with the team and not the individual. That is a basic fact. Its four years since Benitez took the helm at Liverpool, which roughly translates to nearly four years of tired and ignorant drivel from your likes...

Yesterday it was Crouch, b/4 it was Gerrard; today its Keane!

Four years is long enough to understand any Manager, even a complex one like Benitez..

The man plays to the oppositions strengths and weaknesses  and uses his squad from that strategic perspective, rotating them, not simply to keep players freash (important as it maybe), but to meet the afforesaid strategic end..

Every opposition and game is different and must be seen from the perspective it is played. Similarly, you can only truly assess a manger by first understanding the perspective from which he sees football and the opposition.

Without that, much of your comment is a waste of cyberspace...

hehe... for what its worth i think what hes saying makes way more sense than what ur saying..
also.. ur a fckin waste of cyberspace, cyberair and cyber time...

anyways... ill do u a favor and comment on ur post...

"You build momentum with the team and not the individual. That is a basic fact. Its four years since Benitez took the helm at Liverpool, which roughly translates to nearly four years of tired and ignorant drivel from your likes..."

that is not a basic fact.. basic fact is a team only wins if the individuals perform.. if they dont the team doesnt function.. if Robbie Keane is going to be a started for this club in 9 out of 10 games then it just might sound to some a good idea to play him and allow him to keep his momentum going rather than rest him when he obviously needs no rest... and again.. last comment was uncalled for ... people have different opinions u dont like them u can .. ill leave it at that..

"The man plays to the oppositions strengths and weaknesses  and uses his squad from that strategic perspective, rotating them, not simply to keep players freash (important as it maybe), but to meet the afforesaid strategic end.."

the main problem with the "man" is that he doesnt seem to play to OUR strengths often enough... ur rotation blabbering nonsense with all due respect has cost us 4 years of blah blah blah..fill in the craap u seem to be good at it...

" Every opposition and game is different and must be seen from the perspective it is played. Similarly, you can only truly assess a manger by first understanding the perspective from which he sees football and the opposition.

Without that, much of your comment is a waste of cyberspace... "

Now THAT... thats what id call a waste of cyberspace.. are u trying to tell me that having studied our manager and his style of coaching for the last 4 years u can honestly come out and say his decisions and team selections are the main reason behind any sort of achievment we had in the past few years ? better yet, do u not remember all the draws from last season ? dropping crouch, subbing Keane , benching torres ?
I dont see a league title in our books so surely all the playing to our oppo's strengths and weaknesses bs isnt working a treat like u'd want to make us believe... BASIC FACT.. we draw too many game... BASIC FACT... many are baffled by his decision in many games we draw... BASIC FACT... many believe his selection policy is what led to us drawing way too many games in the last coupla seasons.. 


if ur gonna come out and talk sht atleast do it without dismissing other peoples opinions... they just happen to be way more objective and valid than urs ever will be...

Two things stand out in your post for putting reason on its head:

1. Yes, a 'basic fact is a team only wins if the individuals perform..' IndividualS, not individual. And it is those individualS who collectively build momentum for the team, not one person. So let me say it again: its the team stuupid!

2. No sir, it is not his decisions and team selections that are the main reason behind any sort of achievment we had in the past few years...It is actually the ghost of Shankly!!!

glad we cleared that up then

[Madmax]

I remember when Newcastle/Liverpool games were actually competitive

Seems like an age doesnt it? The regular 4-3' ers !

Yeah the 4-3 games were brill.. love the one with the colymore winner than the fowler one i think in the following year. First one was full of entertainment end to end stuff whilst the 2nd one when we flung away a 3-0 lead...

[bigmick]

1. Yes, a 'basic fact is a team only wins if the individuals perform..' IndividualS, not individual. And it is those individualS who collectively build momentum for the team, not one person. So let me say it again: its the team stuupid!

2. No sir, it is not his decisions and team selections that are the main reason behind any sort of achievment we had in the past few years...It is actually the ghost of Shankly!!!

3. The strength of Liverpool is in the squad, not in any one way of playing; a multi-talented squad which allows the coach have tactical flexibility to design play to suit each opponent, or each strategy or change of strategy. Maximum use of that squad is thus what it means to 'play to our strenght'.

I really can't see why, given this post, that you decided to come out guns blazing previously. You clearly rate the manager very highly, believe in his rotational way of thinking 100% and trust him implicitly to make the correct calls in the use of his squad from game to game.

That I don't rate the manager as highly as you, and that I don't believe in the rotational theory quite so avidly, and that I don't trust him to mkae the correct call every single time, is my privilage surely?

Because I disagree with you, it doesn't necessarily mean you are talking sh!t, it means simply that we disagree.

Quite why you decided to go on your little rant earlier on, only you will know. I also note that you have as yet declined the opportunity to post up any thoughts on the game of your own, other than your passionate defence of all things Rafa.


To come back to your point about individual(s) as opposed to individual, it is silliness and semantics combining to cloud the issue, and I can't help thinking this is where you are confusing yourself. A football team by definition is made up of eleven individual players. If those eleven people collectively perform to somewhere near their optimum level both as individuals and as a team, then you have a more than even chance of overachievement. Therefore as sure as night follows day that if you have the opportunity to have your only fit striker firing on all cylinders, it's worth taking the necessary steps to ensure this happens if you can. It really is quite a simple concept, which I think you must be deliberately failing to grasp.

I take on board your allegiance to all things Rafa, but to claim to not even understand peoples concerns about Keane not starting indicates to me that you are either clueless, or more likely spoiling for an argument. To disagree with the doubters in one thing, to come out like you did is entirely another.

[Scottbot]

Even the other managers havnt got a clue what hes gonna do. Ill bet you a pound to a penny Alladyce set up his centre backs  to deal with Keane.

That would explain Blackburn leaking two late goals to Newcastle then eh Nan!??!   

I reckon your our forums own female Bobby Robson

[account deleted by request]

Even the other managers havnt got a clue what hes gonna do. Ill bet you a pound to a penny Alladyce set up his centre backs  to deal with Keane.

That would explain Blackburn leaking two late goals to Newcastle then eh Nan!??!   

I reckon your our forums own female Bobby Robson

Or even Man City ...... or am I getting even more confused than you two 

BTW we missed out on Robinho, I thought he would struggle with the physical side of the game over here...... I am still sure he would if they could get near enough to kick him!

[Scottbot]

Even the other managers havnt got a clue what hes gonna do. Ill bet you a pound to a penny Alladyce set up his centre backs  to deal with Keane.

That would explain Blackburn leaking two late goals to Newcastle then eh Nan!??!   

I reckon your our forums own female Bobby Robson

Or even Man City ...... or am I getting even more confused than you two 

BTW we missed out on Robinho, I thought he would struggle with the physical side of the game over here...... I am still sure he would if they could get near enough to kick him!

Fookin ell it's a disease and now i've been infected!!!

Nanny Bobby strikes!

[Scottbot]

BTW we missed out on Robinho, I thought he would struggle with the physical side of the game over here...... I am still sure he would if they could get near enough to kick him!

Thank fook Chelsea missed out on him mate. That would have been scary. I think City have done everyone a favour there.

[dame]

positives for today:

Lucas is so lethal at corner kick; able to deliver killer pass too.
Skrtel got some warmup time
Ngog got 20-30 mins playing time; earn us a penalty
Babel got lots of playing time and a goal
Keane / Riera / Alonso are rested
SG played for 60 mins only and then rested

Very satisfactory game result and personnel management result; coupled with Chelsea draw at Fulham; even sweeter.