Liverpool FC Forum

[maguskwt]

I know the question was a bit tricky. Forget about whinging that we didn't buy anybody. Just answer the question. Surely you should find the answer a little easier seeing as we qualified for CL football in the 14/15 season. Come on name me five 28/29 year old footballers in their prime that would have REALISTICALLY joined Liverpool.

That's not the point mate. The point is that the manager needs to give the best chance for the team to succeed. There is not guarantee that even if we signed Messi or Ronaldo, we'd win the title. That's always a given and anyone who thinks that just because we sign 28-29 year old footballer in their prime we'll win a trophy is just living in cloud cuckoo land. Players are just tools. The manager needs to use the tools in the correct manner to win anything. What alot of us are complaining is that we are not even using the best tools we can use. I think in recent history, only Rafa could be said to have used the best tools he could probably attain. He failed to win the league. But at least we can say that he tried his best. He bought us Torres, Masherano, Alonso, Reina and Arbeloa. In a way, under Rafa, we punched above our weight class in both the transfer market and on the pitch. We were freakin FEARED by all the top team in the Champions League. One could argue that he didn't win the league so therefore he failed. Yes, but he gave his best.

Currently I don't think we are even punching at our current weight class when it comes to transfers. We lost out players to freakin Tottenham Hotspurs. Players like Christian Eriksen and Delle Alli. Is Tottenham considered the same brand as Liverpool in World Football? No way. Why did we lose out to Spurs? Because of Penny Pinching by the owners and maybe the system that they put in place. Were Torres, Masherano, Alonso, Reina, Arbeloa and Suarez in their prime and 28-29 years old? They were not! But Rafa identified these quality players and brought them to Anfield and did what we had to do to secure their signature.

Klopp's had 3 windows now and frankly speaking, the fact that our squad is still not strong enough is a bit of a failure by Klopp. Just because we lose Mane to the African Nations' Cup, we shouldn't lose our performance that much.

I believe all that we're asking FSG and Klopp is to punch at our own weight class in the transfer market and if possible above our weight class. We are not asking to compete with the ultra rich clubs for established 28-29 year old players.

[devaney]

I am not sure Eds how you actually know with total confidence what players we have actually showed an interest in? Lets face it for years we have been linked with every man and his dog including Benzema on several occasions.

I think that you are being very simplistic and more than a little naive when you suggest that Sanchez should have formed part of the Suarez negotiations. You actually think that you can force a player of Sanchez's quality to go somewhere he doesn't want to go? To be blunt I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.The simple facts are Suarez wanted to go to Barca and Sanchez wanted to go to Arsenal. Liverpool were realistic enough to appreciate that Suarez was determined to go and there was very little they could do to stop him. Even a new contract paying him £200k a week didn't work. Suarez wanted to challenge himself with the very best in the world and Barca offered him that opportunity. To be frank Liverpool did well to get an extra year out of Suarez when he previously intimated his desire to leave.

[kazza]

Suarez always dreamed of playing for Barcelona. In fact the day he signed he asked Comolli not to stop him if Barca came knocking specifically. Every footballing decision he made was to line up a move for Barcelona, even a potential move to Arsenal. There was nothing we could have done differently other than get more money for him. I do not believe we could have forced Sanchez to move to us as players have more say than they used too, case in point Suarez!

[devaney]

Excellent post Mags. Agree totally with your sentiments. FSG have brought in Coutinho,Sturridge,Suarez and Lallana who are all decent quality. Rafa as well as the players you mention also bought a veritable collection of dross.

Dele Alli is frustrating. Hindsight however is an exact science. If the reports are to be believed then Gerrard stayed in bed on the day that Alli visited Melwood. I think Gerrard had a game the previous night. Now I'm not criticising Gerrard, I'm simply trying to show the degree of importance Liverpool placed on getting Alli, rightly or wrongly. Like many youngsters Alli had shown excellent potential but just how many of them go on to become outstanding players in the way that he has. I can forgive FSG for that one.

We get linked with so many players that it is impossible to ever know the full story. I don't think that FSG are overly frugal and we certainly don't know the full reasons why they miss out on some players.Carroll, Lallana, Lovren, Suarez, Wijnaldum,Benteke,Firmino,Markovic,Lovren, Mané and Sakho all cost in excess of £20m ( Sakho was close) and several of them cost over £30m. Perhaps the players that the buying committee have come up with leave a lot to be desired in many cases. Klopp currently has a powerful voice on that committee and so far he has been involved in 6 transfers which include Matip,Mané and Wijnaldum who all have a lot to offer. He won't panic buy. Yes we would all like things to happen a lot quicker but it is all about availability and whether a player wants to join Liverpool. I've said it before that Geography now plays a part and whether we like it or not London is more appealing than Liverpool.Footballers are very wealthy and they demand the lifestyle that their wealth affords them. Just how many of them do you see them driving around in Skoda's or holidaying in Rhyl. Not that there is anything wrong with Rhyl or Skoda's 

[Doeboy]

I wouldn't say we 'lost' out to spurs for Dele Alli. Simple fact is the powers that be/ didn't think he was worth the fee/wages involved and then spurs stepped in afterwards. By the sounds of out it, once spurs heard we were talking to him, they had pretty much given up on him. They only got him due to our penny pinching. If it weren't for that, he would be with us now

[sniffy98]

Dev, the geography point is very true and relevant. Siggurdsson, Dempsey and Willian (I know he then joined Chavs 11th hour) chose Spuds ahead of us. Sanchez chose le Ar5e instead of 'Pool and even that no mark Salah picked Chavs ahead of us. Now obviously money has a lot to do with it but London has to be the main attraction. There's no way players would pick the North London clubs ahead of us and cite the chance of winning things as a factor. Chavs maybe....but that would be purely about £££.

[sniffy98]

Alli...not having that one. There are hundreds of players at that age which clubs pass on buying. And the young players bought naturally always carry a risk when you buy them because you are investing in potential. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. Liverpool, Spuds and Ar5e were all offered Alli. Of course now he's turned out to be fantastic both us and Ar5e are kicking themselves but this isn't something you can criticise the club over. Take a look at the example of Kane. Released by Ar5e as a kid and now look at him at Spuds - yet no blame for Wenger. It's s tough call to make with youngsters because they all develop at different rates. And most don't make it.

[eds]

I know the question was a bit tricky. Forget about whinging that we didn't buy anybody. Just answer the question. Surely you should find the answer a little easier seeing as we qualified for CL football in the 14/15 season. Come on name me five 28/29 year old footballers in their prime that would have REALISTICALLY joined Liverpool.

That's not the point mate. The point is that the manager needs to give the best chance for the team to succeed. There is not guarantee that even if we signed Messi or Ronaldo, we'd win the title. That's always a given and anyone who thinks that just because we sign 28-29 year old footballer in their prime we'll win a trophy is just living in cloud cuckoo land. Players are just tools. The manager needs to use the tools in the correct manner to win anything. What alot of us are complaining is that we are not even using the best tools we can use. I think in recent history, only Rafa could be said to have used the best tools he could probably attain. He failed to win the league. But at least we can say that he tried his best. He bought us Torres, Masherano, Alonso, Reina and Arbeloa. In a way, under Rafa, we punched above our weight class in both the transfer market and on the pitch. We were freakin FEARED by all the top team in the Champions League. One could argue that he didn't win the league so therefore he failed. Yes, but he gave his best.

Currently I don't think we are even punching at our current weight class when it comes to transfers. We lost out players to freakin Tottenham Hotspurs. Players like Christian Eriksen and Delle Alli. Is Tottenham considered the same brand as Liverpool in World Football? No way. Why did we lose out to Spurs? Because of Penny Pinching by the owners and maybe the system that they put in place. Were Torres, Masherano, Alonso, Reina, Arbeloa and Suarez in their prime and 28-29 years old? They were not! But Rafa identified these quality players and brought them to Anfield and did what we had to do to secure their signature.

Klopp's had 3 windows now and frankly speaking, the fact that our squad is still not strong enough is a bit of a failure by Klopp. Just because we lose Mane to the African Nations' Cup, we shouldn't lose our performance that much.

I believe all that we're asking FSG and Klopp is to punch at our own weight class in the transfer market and if possible above our weight class. We are not asking to compete with the ultra rich clubs for established 28-29 year old players.

Yes, yes and yes.

Excellent post Mags. 

[eds]

I am not sure Eds how you actually know with total confidence what players we have actually showed an interest in? Lets face it for years we have been linked with every man and his dog including Benzema on several occasions.

I think that you are being very simplistic and more than a little naive when you suggest that Sanchez should have formed part of the Suarez negotiations. You actually think that you can force a player of Sanchez's quality to go somewhere he doesn't want to go? To be blunt I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.The simple facts are Suarez wanted to go to Barca and Sanchez wanted to go to Arsenal. Liverpool were realistic enough to appreciate that Suarez was determined to go and there was very little they could do to stop him. Even a new contract paying him £200k a week didn't work. Suarez wanted to challenge himself with the very best in the world and Barca offered him that opportunity. To be frank Liverpool did well to get an extra year out of Suarez when he previously intimated his desire to leave.

I don't have total confidence in what I am saying about Sanchez, all I'm saying is that I felt we didn't try hard enough.

We should have held Suarez for longer and made Barcelona sweat until the end of August with the whole Sanchez thing. As they would not have sold him without having Suarez first.

At the end of the day we buckled on both the price and letting a player we were after go very, very easily to our direct rivals.

At the end of the day it's gone and we can't do anything about it now, I'm just highlighting our resolve when it comes to signing players and the reason why we have let so many slip to our rivals in the last few years under FSG.

[Doeboy]

Alli...not having that one. There are hundreds of players at that age which clubs pass on buying. And the young players bought naturally always carry a risk when you buy them because you are investing in potential. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. Liverpool, Spuds and Ar5e were all offered Alli. Of course now he's turned out to be fantastic both us and Ar5e are kicking themselves but this isn't something you can criticise the club over. Take a look at the example of Kane. Released by Ar5e as a kid and now look at him at Spuds - yet no blame for Wenger. It's s tough call to make with youngsters because they all develop at different rates. And most don't make it.

Thing with Alli was that we didn't just look/scout at him and say we will pass. We obviously rated the kid seeing as we brought him up to meet/have talks with us as confirmed by Rodgers. Rodgers mentioned he was very confident at the time that he would sign. The MK Dons manager at the time, Karl Robinson is apparently a red and he was on at Rodgers that Alli was something special. Apparently we agreed a fee with MK Dons and then tried to lower the price at the end and also offered Alli academy level wages when he was a regular for MK Dons with a good scoring record.

From that you can tell we rated him and wanted him but tried to take the ***** with the financials which scuppered the deal. Kane is a different case. He was apparently released by Arsenal when he was a young schoolboy (some reports saying when he was 9-10) and at that age you can never tell how a player will turn out. Alii was 17-18 showing very good promise and playing regularly so a completely different situation
.

[devaney]

Doeboy - its that one single word that concerns me - APPARENTLY - do we really know the full story? Probably not. When Sterling was Alli's age he was earning relatively low wages. Should we have simply thrown the wage structure on the scrap heap to satisfy somebody with potential. What message does that send out to the rest of the younger players.

Eds - Suarez as brilliant as he was certainly caused us plenty of problems and did nothing for the reputation of Liverpool FC.
Personally I think the owners were happy to see the back of him. They were not prepared to gamble with £65m on the table. Very easy for you suggest they should have held out longer. Absolutely no other club showed any interest in buying Suarez. The price we got for Suarez was reasonable considering his history. Clearly FSG were not desperate for the money or they would not have agreed to a payment package over several years. On the one hand you criticise FSG for being frugal and on the other hand you criticise them for selling Suarez at a bargain basement price.

[Doeboy]

Doeboy - its that one single word that concerns me - APPARENTLY - do we really know the full story? Probably not. When Sterling was Alli's age he was earning relatively low wages. Should we have simply thrown the wage structure on the scrap heap to satisfy somebody with potential. What message does that send out to the rest of the younger players.

Eds - Suarez as brilliant as he was certainly caused us plenty of problems and did nothing for the reputation of Liverpool FC.
Personally I think the owners were happy to see the back of him. They were not prepared to gamble with £65m on the table. Very easy for you suggest they should have held out longer. Absolutely no other club showed any interest in buying Suarez. The price we got for Suarez was reasonable considering his history. Clearly FSG were not desperate for the money or they would not have agreed to a payment package over several years. On the one hand you criticise FSG for being frugal and on the other hand you criticise them for selling Suarez at a bargain basement price.

It's always going to be apparently mate unless you hear from someone who is directly involved but Rodgers saying they thought they had got it done and saying he then ended up to spurs which was 'frustrating and disappointing' suggests we really wanted the lad and he wanted to come to us. Suggests that more than likely the reason behind the deal not being done was over a fee/wages...

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... an-rodgers

[sniffy98]

Doeboy thanks for clearing that up and I didn't know Kane was that young so accept the situation was different. I still believe that it is a risk when buying potential at 17/18 even if we are buying someone we obviously rate simply because most youngsters just don't make it. Therefore I can't blame the club for not breaking the wage structure.

[maguskwt]

Doeboy thanks for clearing that up and I didn't know Kane was that young so accept the situation was different. I still believe that it is a risk when buying potential at 17/18 even if we are buying someone we obviously rate simply because most youngsters just don't make it. Therefore I can't blame the club for not breaking the wage structure.

Every purchase is a risk mate. If we don't take even more risk, we end up having a mediocre squad. The scouts and the manager are paid to assess these kind of risks. The fact that BR wanted the player and yet was powerless to do anything about it shows the failure of the transfer committee back then. I just hope that the current set up with Klopp, he has more say in it. If the manager wants a player, they should do all they could reasonably do to sign them. The manager lives and dies by his signings. The manager is the one responsible for the performances of the team.They didnt do anything reasonable with Dele Ali transfer. They penny pinched.

[maguskwt]

Doeboy thanks for clearing that up and I didn't know Kane was that young so accept the situation was different. I still believe that it is a risk when buying potential at 17/18 even if we are buying someone we obviously rate simply because most youngsters just don't make it. Therefore I can't blame the club for not breaking the wage structure.

Every purchase is a risk mate. If we don't take even more risk, we end up having a mediocre squad. The scouts and the manager are paid to assess these kind of risks. The fact that BR wanted the player and yet was powerless to do anything about it shows the failure of the transfer committee back then. I just hope that the current set up with Klopp, he has more say in it. If the manager wants a player, they should do all they could reasonably do to sign them. The manager lives and dies by his signings. The manager is the one responsible for the performances of the team.They didnt do anything reasonable with Dele Ali transfer. They penny pinched.