Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu the Red]

For the record, I'm not debating anything with you. Your area of debate is if's and maybe's. I'll debate the facts, and opinions based on facts, and even any branch off further than that.

So let's look at the facts. Martin Skrtel is in fact a professional footballer at a very high level on the domestic stage. He's also highly regarded across Europe and has a buttload of international caps.

But there's another kind of footballer. The kind who kicks a ball around. Some have great skills. I watch Sunday league matches and see lads with an awesome shot on them. Seen some great free kicks, some lovely passes. These guys are good players in their own right. But they're not professionals, and for 999 cases in 1000, they're not professionals for a good reason.

Now another type comes to mind, often seen in Sunday league too. This guy 'plays football' but he's no footballer. He's that big f*** who sat at the bar all last night, the tattoo'd, beer bellied guy who went for a kebab on his way home. He's in the team because he wants to be. That's all. But he's got his uses. The lads from the other team are plopping themselves. The guys got red eyes and a hang over. Can still smell the garlic sauce. They ain't going near him. He has another use. He loves head butting people in his spare time, and has been known to break knees. We'll stick him in defence. It'll be a laugh if nothing else.

Anyway, the moral to this smokey philosophy is that Skrtel is a good defender. There are better defenders in the world, but lots of worse ones too. We don't have any of the best ones. We just have those that we have and they're doing a pretty good job by most folks reckoning

Facts? You say he's highly regarded across Europe... That's quite simply not true. That is, an opinion. He's held in esteem by a few of our own fans but is certainly not rated as a top player by most people within the game. He's a player who plays purely on instinct and struggles desperately to cope with movement and his own positioning and concentration.

He's also cost us the Manchester City game with some pathetic defending and then the game after cost us yet another goal in the Chelsea game with more poor defending. In both matches he made absolute schoolboy, amateurish errors and it isn't the first time in his career he's done this. He constantly through out the season leaves his centre half partners exposed time and time again with poor decisions and we concede a hell of a lot of goals from his errors.

Don't even understand what your middle paragraph is about... that's just a bit weird.

To be quite honest, I'm sick to death of seeing him in the side, as I am with Lucas and Johnson... we'll be a far better team
when the three of them are permanently binned off, the sooner, the better.

[Stu the Red]

I certainly don't agree with everything he says but I do find him, like yourself, entertaining and this forum needs a bit of that.

Cheeky tw*t.

[maypaxvobiscum]

For the record, I'm not debating anything with you. Your area of debate is if's and maybe's. I'll debate the facts, and opinions based on facts, and even any branch off further than that.

So let's look at the facts. Martin Skrtel is in fact a professional footballer at a very high level on the domestic stage. He's also highly regarded across Europe and has a buttload of international caps.

But there's another kind of footballer. The kind who kicks a ball around. Some have great skills. I watch Sunday league matches and see lads with an awesome shot on them. Seen some great free kicks, some lovely passes. These guys are good players in their own right. But they're not professionals, and for 999 cases in 1000, they're not professionals for a good reason.

Now another type comes to mind, often seen in Sunday league too. This guy 'plays football' but he's no footballer. He's that big f*** who sat at the bar all last night, the tattoo'd, beer bellied guy who went for a kebab on his way home. He's in the team because he wants to be. That's all. But he's got his uses. The lads from the other team are plopping themselves. The guys got red eyes and a hang over. Can still smell the garlic sauce. They ain't going near him. He has another use. He loves head butting people in his spare time, and has been known to break knees. We'll stick him in defence. It'll be a laugh if nothing else.

Anyway, the moral to this smokey philosophy is that Skrtel is a good defender. There are better defenders in the world, but lots of worse ones too. We don't have any of the best ones. We just have those that we have and they're doing a pretty good job by most folks reckoning

Facts? You say he's highly regarded across Europe... That's quite simply not true. That is, an opinion. He's held in esteem by a few of our own fans but is certainly not rated as a top player by most people within the game. He's a player who plays purely on instinct and struggles desperately to cope with movement and his own positioning and concentration.

He's also cost us the Manchester City game with some pathetic defending and then the game after cost us yet another goal in the Chelsea game with more poor defending. In both matches he made absolute schoolboy, amateurish errors and it isn't the first time in his career he's done this. He constantly through out the season leaves his centre half partners exposed time and time again with poor decisions and we concede a hell of a lot of goals from his errors.

Don't even understand what your middle paragraph is about... that's just a bit weird.

To be quite honest, I'm sick to death of seeing him in the side, as I am with Lucas and Johnson... we'll be a far better team
when the three of them are permanently binned off, the sooner, the better.

The irony   

[RedAnt]

Skrtel IS highly regarded across Europe. If we're gonna be pedantic, he's liked in Liverpool and in Slovakia. West to east, across Europe. Just a joke. But many like him. He's a great defender. He's cost us points and made daft mistakes, but so do all players.

Once more though, I'm wondering about the motivation behind such criticism of a player in top form. You claim you know the game, so why are you blind to it? Is it simple pessimism? You seem the kind of guy who will never be happy. If you had ten million quid you'd be blinded to how cool it is to have all that cash because you'd be fretting over the tax you'd have to pay.

To simplify the scenario again, Skrtel is paid to do a job. He's doing it well. The team he's a part of is on schedule and looking up, rather than down.

I wonder if Skrtel's done a thousand kicky-ups yet... But on second thoughts, that dosent matter, so long as he keeps sticking that big bald head that ball and punting it away from danger. And if it goes in the oppositions goal? I'll take that too!!

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Hence the reason I have a pop at those calling Gerrard a "liability" and Sturridge "world class", and also why I chose to defend Cissokho slighly in his thread.

Lad, the only thing that you could pop would be the myth Benny was the biggest tool on this forum ,have a word fella ,because even a Russian doll
isn't this far up itself .......

[woof woof !]

Hence the reason I have a pop at those calling Gerrard a "liability" and Sturridge "world class", and also why I chose to defend Cissokho slighly in his thread.

Lad, the only thing that you could pop would be the myth Benny was the biggest tool on this forum ,have a word fella ,because even a Russian doll
isn't this far up itself .......

Get over yourself Red, Stu isn't the only fella in the forum that's sometimes up him self.

I may not always agree with what the fella say's or how he delivers it BUT you know what ? He doesn't take other's opinions half as personally as "Betty" or some others in here.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Hence the reason I have a pop at those calling Gerrard a "liability" and Sturridge "world class", and also why I chose to defend Cissokho slighly in his thread.

Lad, the only thing that you could pop would be the myth Benny was the biggest tool on this forum ,have a word fella ,because even a Russian doll
isn't this far up itself .......

Get over yourself Red, Stu isn't the only fella in the forum that's sometimes up him self.

I may not always agree with what the fella say's or how he delivers it BUT you know what ? He doesn't take other's opinions half as personally as "Betty" or some others in here.

In that case woof ,would it not be more fitting if you let the fella answer for himself ,just a thought like ,its just I (differences aside ) think I have some
decent banter with Stu and we often have a little POP without it getting serious.

[woof woof !]

Fairy Muff Red, just the "ref" in me having a word before "decent banter" eventually becomes something else 

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Fairy Muff Red, just the "ref" in me having a word before "decent banter" eventually becomes something else 

No problem mate,its your job to keep the place ticking over.

[woof woof !]

And back to Skrtel.

Could we do better ?

Of course we could. To suggest otherwise would mean we are currently in possession of the one of the worlds top CB's.

On the other hand despite his "howlers" and the fact that most of us wouldn't rate him as one of the worlds top CB's, Skrtel has probably (again ? ) been our most dependable and influential CB this season.

Maybe we should get off his back just a little bit and be thankful his contribution .

[Stu the Red]

Skrtel IS highly regarded across Europe. If we're gonna be pedantic, he's liked in Liverpool and in Slovakia. West to east, across Europe. Just a joke. But many like him. He's a great defender. He's cost us points and made daft mistakes, but so do all players.

Once more though, I'm wondering about the motivation behind such criticism of a player in top form. You claim you know the game, so why are you blind to it? Is it simple pessimism? You seem the kind of guy who will never be happy. If you had ten million quid you'd be blinded to how cool it is to have all that cash because you'd be fretting over the tax you'd have to pay.

To simplify the scenario again, Skrtel is paid to do a job. He's doing it well. The team he's a part of is on schedule and looking up, rather than down.

I wonder if Skrtel's done a thousand kicky-ups yet... But on second thoughts, that dosent matter, so long as he keeps sticking that big bald head that ball and punting it away from danger. And if it goes in the oppositions goal? I'll take that too!!

Because unlike most football fans I'm not fickle and don't change my opinions depending on what way the wind is blowing.

A players ability doesn't change with a good run of form.

I don't believe that a couple of good games here and there warrants a player who's on £70,000 a week and could be replaced by half of the centre halves in the league and we wouldn't feel any loss. Skrtel is a premier league class player, but he's not a good player in terms of what we're looking to achieve. He should be sold, simple as that.

[RedAnt]

That's better Stu. I agree mostly in what you say, but the angles we're looking at it are vastly different. For a sense of order, I'd personally keep such talk as wages and contracts to a minimum because we're having a great time and are all feeling upbeat.

Skrtel is an extremely limited player. But he can head. He can tackle. His positioning, reading of the game and teamwork have all improved over the last few seasons. He looks more agile and leaner, and to myself and many others he seems a good solid defender.

But as I've already said, and you chose to ignore, Martin dosent fit the philosophy. His composure and ball skills are simply not good enough for the system. But building a team takes time. Skrtel didn't leave as was expected, and we've used him, to good effect. So what if one of the eleven players isn't that comfy with the ball? Don't play it to him so often. He's still a fine defender who will still give his all, even when he himself knows he's not the ideal fit. He gets his head down and gets one with the job, knowing that sooner or later he will be obsolete. I think massive credit is due to him.

I think Sahko was meant to slot right in as a ball plaing defender alongside Agger. It's not quite worked out. But think on your feet, use the resources you have, and crack on with the job.

And guess what...it's going pretty well so far and big Martin 's shift over the course of the season has been just fine.

I guess some folks would have dragged him into the office and told him to sort out his act. And slash his wages while he's in there. Seems illogical to me, but these professionals and their mind games eh? Tut-tut.

[damjan193]

Why do you always have to make things look worse than they are, Stu? I agree that Skrtel shouldn't be our starter but to say that he can "be replaced by half the center halves in the league" and that he should be sold is an exaggeration. He's a reliable player in terms of fitness, he's strong and he's athletic, it's just a shame that he's as brain dead as he is. Had he not been so prone to basic errors, he would have been one of the best defenders in the league.

Maybe he's not good enough to be on the team sheet week in week out but he's definitely good enough to be a back-up.

[Stu the Red]

Why do you always have to make things look worse than they are, Stu? I agree that Skrtel shouldn't be our starter but to say that he can "be replaced by half the center halves in the league"

In what possible way is that an exageration?

Do you not think there are other centre backs in the country who are better than he is?

The point is he's worse than alot of the centre halves in the league and I wouldn't say he's any better than most. The likes of Delaney and James Collins and the likes are first division players, but there is at least one centre half in every team in the league better than him and there is in a lot of cases two.

You're clearly one of these that puts Liverpool players on their own little pedastal.  Lucas, Skrtel and Johnson... could all be replaced by at least half of the players in their position in the league and we'd be better or at least no worse off. Until we can't say that about any of our players we'll never win a league.

[woof woof !]

unlike most football fans I'm not fickle and don't change my opinions depending on what way the wind is blowing.

A players ability doesn't change with a good run of form.

I don't believe that a couple of good games here and there warrants a player who's on £70,000 a week and could be replaced by half of the centre halves in the league and we wouldn't feel any loss. Skrtel is a premier league class player, but he's not a good player in terms of what we're looking to achieve. He should be sold, simple as that.

OK Stu. Given the money we have might have for signings, and those "half of the centre halves in the league" that could replace him were "available", where do we start ?

(I feel a big f'uck off NOT HIM ! coming on     )