Liverpool FC Forum

[Bam]

You said all that but you still didn't answer the question Bam. Why do you think Rafa will not try for Barry in the summer?

PS No need for you and Sabre to get down each others throats. This isn't a dic.k measuring contest.

In my humble opinion Bav not Rafa's  it would defy logic. Last season when Rafa was open to offers for Xabi it would of made more sense. The Spainard was not on form and Barry coming in and Alonso going out would not of been as perplexing as the speculation this time around. Many have said on here that 'Rafa' was a genius when putting Xabi in the shop window, as it served as a preverbial rocket up the Spainard back side. I personally don't believe that was Rafa's intentions I think he would of sold Xabi if the right offer had came in and brought Barry. Neverthe less that did not happen and Xabi did pick up his game. On current form the only reason I could see Rafa selling Alonso to Madrid is if he had motives for being their manager one day. But sincehe has signed a new contract here at Liverpool there is not any need to sell Alonso to Madrid. Rafa will be given transfer funds of some sort this summer and IMO he needs to buy strikers and possibly a right midfielder and a fullback. Certinly not a central midfielder (that would defy logic) if Bary did run his contract down and came to Liverpool on a free (which is unlikely) Rafa may well keep Xabi and play Barry in a number of positions, left mid, left back and possibly CM if injuries surface. It wouldnt make sense o sell Alonso and buy Barry now as it did last year, Rafa needs to look for game breakers not neceserilly possession retention and industrial players in the mould of Barry. If Barry comes I would be happy, but only if there were no transfer fee involved as our money is needed elsewhere on the team and Xabi stayed at the same time. Just because there is speculation about Madrid 'knocking' it does not mean Rafa has to answer the door to them.

[RedBlood]

its mad that some people use that hes not as good as alonso gerrard and masch (3 of the best midfielders in the world) as stick to beat the him with

seriously do people suggest we go out and buy a world class midfielder for 20 million to replace him as 4th choice or get in the team and put alonso or masch on the bench, how would that improve us??

hes 22 years old and he does have talent anyway who cant see that is a clown, hes fourth choice give him a chance to develope his talent and get off his back, like someone said on here if he didnt give away that pen and free kick he wouldnt be getting anywhere near the stick hes getting

are things going that well that a kid has become the whipping boy??

Well the thread certainly wasn't started ( almost a year ago now) with the intention of turning Lucas into a whipping boy . I merely suggested that I didn't think he was good enough to have any real future with us.

As for

seriously do people suggest we go out and buy a world class midfielder for 20 million to replace him as 4th choice or get in the team and put alonso or masch on the bench, how would that improve us??

Yes mate I seriously suggest it. Anyone would think you've never heard of rotation.

Also if Rafa continues to play Gerrard in support of Torres I see lots of opportunities for Mascherano, Alonso and another central midfielder to get regular football , if that other turned out to be Barry he's also more than adept at playing at left mid.

I'm with you on this one. Our squad doesn't have as much depth as the Man U or Chelsea. Look at their Midfielders. Man U they have Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Carrick, Hargreaves (injured), Fletcher. Chelsea has ballack, deco, lampard, Essien, Mikel and We have Mascher, Alonso, Gerrard and Lucas. Why can't we do better? The fact that Lucas isn't showing us anything and causing us games would suggest that we should improve on this as if without either one of our main 3 cm in an extended time, we would be in trouble. So, if we have additional resources, we should do something here as I think Lucas would be more suitable to be our 5th Midfielder  or 6th or 7th.

so you think utd and chelsea have better options in centre midfield then us?? seriously ??
our centre midfield is as strong if not stronger then anyones in world football

and as for people saying spearing is better then lucas, imo and ive seen them both play alot lucas is better but thats not to say i dont rate them both

and another opinion i have is that if lucas was a scouser and spearing was brazilian then all these people calling for lucas to be replaced with spearing would be alot quieter

[aCe']

You said all that but you still didn't answer the question Bam. Why do you think Rafa will not try for Barry in the summer?

PS No need for you and Sabre to get down each others throats. This isn't a dic.k measuring contest.

In my humble opinion Bav not Rafa's  it would defy logic. Last season when Rafa was open to offers for Xabi it would of made more sense. The Spainard was not on form and Barry coming in and Alonso going out would not of been as perplexing as the speculation this time around. Many have said on here that 'Rafa' was a genius when putting Xabi in the shop window, as it served as a preverbial rocket up the Spainard back side. I personally don't believe that was Rafa's intentions I think he would of sold Xabi if the right offer had came in and brought Barry. Neverthe less that did not happen and Xabi did pick up his game. On current form the only reason I could see Rafa selling Alonso to Madrid is if he had motives for being their manager one day. But sincehe has signed a new contract here at Liverpool there is not any need to sell Alonso to Madrid. Rafa will be given transfer funds of some sort this summer and IMO he needs to buy strikers and possibly a right midfielder and a fullback. Certinly not a central midfielder (that would defy logic) if Bary did run his contract down and came to Liverpool on a free (which is unlikely) Rafa may well keep Xabi and play Barry in a number of positions, left mid, left back and possibly CM if injuries surface. It wouldnt make sense o sell Alonso and buy Barry now as it did last year, Rafa needs to look for game breakers not neceserilly possession retention and industrial players in the mould of Barry. If Barry comes I would be happy, but only if there were no transfer fee involved as our money is needed elsewhere on the team and Xabi stayed at the same time. Just because there is speculation about Madrid 'knocking' it does not mean Rafa has to answer the door to them.

if they offer anything more than 20mill i think Benitez would be crazy not to sell.. lets face it.. Barry with his contract running out could be available for at little as 8-12mill .. the difference between the 2 isnt that great... we could use the money to improve other areas...
dont get me wrong i think Alonso's a fantastic footballer.. deffo one of my favourite players and i personally wouldnt want to see him playing elsewhere but if an offer is made, id understand if Rafa considers it.. hell id even expect him to do so...

Back to Lucas though... this thread - afterall -  is about the Brazilian... why arent we looking to get rid of him... surely someone out there hasnt seen enough of him and would be willing to pay 5mill or so for a brazilian internation footballer whos only 21 or whatever his age is... add a few mill to that and get Barry and keep alonso and Bam is happy..

[akumaface]

its mad that some people use that hes not as good as alonso gerrard and masch (3 of the best midfielders in the world) as stick to beat the him with

seriously do people suggest we go out and buy a world class midfielder for 20 million to replace him as 4th choice or get in the team and put alonso or masch on the bench, how would that improve us??

hes 22 years old and he does have talent anyway who cant see that is a clown, hes fourth choice give him a chance to develope his talent and get off his back, like someone said on here if he didnt give away that pen and free kick he wouldnt be getting anywhere near the stick hes getting

are things going that well that a kid has become the whipping boy??

Well the thread certainly wasn't started ( almost a year ago now) with the intention of turning Lucas into a whipping boy . I merely suggested that I didn't think he was good enough to have any real future with us.

As for

seriously do people suggest we go out and buy a world class midfielder for 20 million to replace him as 4th choice or get in the team and put alonso or masch on the bench, how would that improve us??

Yes mate I seriously suggest it. Anyone would think you've never heard of rotation.

Also if Rafa continues to play Gerrard in support of Torres I see lots of opportunities for Mascherano, Alonso and another central midfielder to get regular football , if that other turned out to be Barry he's also more than adept at playing at left mid.

I'm with you on this one. Our squad doesn't have as much depth as the Man U or Chelsea. Look at their Midfielders. Man U they have Scholes, Giggs, Anderson, Carrick, Hargreaves (injured), Fletcher. Chelsea has ballack, deco, lampard, Essien, Mikel and We have Mascher, Alonso, Gerrard and Lucas. Why can't we do better? The fact that Lucas isn't showing us anything and causing us games would suggest that we should improve on this as if without either one of our main 3 cm in an extended time, we would be in trouble. So, if we have additional resources, we should do something here as I think Lucas would be more suitable to be our 5th Midfielder  or 6th or 7th.

so you think utd and chelsea have better options in centre midfield then us?? seriously ??
our centre midfield is as strong if not stronger then anyones in world football

and as for people saying spearing is better then lucas, imo and ive seen them both play alot lucas is better but thats not to say i dont rate them both

and another opinion i have is that if lucas was a scouser and spearing was brazilian then all these people calling for lucas to be replaced with spearing would be alot quieter

We are talking about the depth of CM and not the best 11 on the pitch. Our 3 main CM would rate better than most on either Chelsea and Man U but look further down the depth chart at no 4, this is where the problem begins. As it is proven, players need rest and in resting our top 3, we need to play Lucas. We had in fact lost points with his mistake in couple of games. He simply played more bad games than good and how many more mistake he makes or freekick conseded before you accept the fact that he is not good enough. If rafa had a better option, he would not have played Lucas in those situation. I'm not slagging him for effort but he has not improved since his arrival. Whether he is a scouser or brazilian has no relevance whatsoever as I'm not as naive as you are. Don't try to put words in others mouth. I also think Liverpool fans tends to be knowledgable fans and they can see through the race and knows who is a good footballer. In this case, Lucas is not and I had hoped he can prove me wrong but like many others, he just kept disappointed us. Lucas by being average is not a crime but I'm just suggesting that he had had enough opportunities to prove that he can't be anyone more than what he is now. THe fact that we don't have better option has caused us game there. I have no idea why you couldn't see this and just keep saying I believe he has potential blah blah blah. I'm not arguing this for the sake of arguing, his performance speaks for itself. So, please convince me and prove me wrong.

As for Spearing vs Lucas, wait till Spearing played in the same number of games or given the same opportunities before comparing with Lucas. I think Spearing plays a more simple and direct game. He is no Mascherano or Alonso, he will be a squad player at best but as least he knows his limits and shall be given the same opportunities as Lucas since Lucas is not performing. He already had played so many games for us but there is no improvement whatsoever (let me know if you think otherwise). Also, do you think it is that easy to become a whipping boy, he must have done something that pi.sses most of the fans. Please name another player on the current squad that played worse than Lucas then you know why he's getting all the stick. Sorry as it sounded harsh but this is a high risk high return profession and 3 strikes you are out. His time is running out for sure. If in fact in the coming summer Rafa had gone out and get an experience CM, then it would mean Rafa knows Lucas is a liability on the field.

[Rorschach26]

Lucas is beter then Spearing

[tubby]

You said all that but you still didn't answer the question Bam. Why do you think Rafa will not try for Barry in the summer?

PS No need for you and Sabre to get down each others throats. This isn't a dic.k measuring contest.

In my humble opinion Bav not Rafa's  it would defy logic. Last season when Rafa was open to offers for Xabi it would of made more sense. The Spainard was not on form and Barry coming in and Alonso going out would not of been as perplexing as the speculation this time around. Many have said on here that 'Rafa' was a genius when putting Xabi in the shop window, as it served as a preverbial rocket up the Spainard back side. I personally don't believe that was Rafa's intentions I think he would of sold Xabi if the right offer had came in and brought Barry. Neverthe less that did not happen and Xabi did pick up his game. On current form the only reason I could see Rafa selling Alonso to Madrid is if he had motives for being their manager one day. But sincehe has signed a new contract here at Liverpool there is not any need to sell Alonso to Madrid. Rafa will be given transfer funds of some sort this summer and IMO he needs to buy strikers and possibly a right midfielder and a fullback. Certinly not a central midfielder (that would defy logic) if Bary did run his contract down and came to Liverpool on a free (which is unlikely) Rafa may well keep Xabi and play Barry in a number of positions, left mid, left back and possibly CM if injuries surface. It wouldnt make sense o sell Alonso and buy Barry now as it did last year, Rafa needs to look for game breakers not neceserilly possession retention and industrial players in the mould of Barry. If Barry comes I would be happy, but only if there were no transfer fee involved as our money is needed elsewhere on the team and Xabi stayed at the same time. Just because there is speculation about Madrid 'knocking' it does not mean Rafa has to answer the door to them.

if they offer anything more than 20mill i think Benitez would be crazy not to sell.. lets face it.. Barry with his contract running out could be available for at little as 8-12mill .. the difference between the 2 isnt that great... we could use the money to improve other areas...
dont get me wrong i think Alonso's a fantastic footballer.. deffo one of my favourite players and i personally wouldnt want to see him playing elsewhere but if an offer is made, id understand if Rafa considers it.. hell id even expect him to do so...

Back to Lucas though... this thread - afterall -  is about the Brazilian... why arent we looking to get rid of him... surely someone out there hasnt seen enough of him and would be willing to pay 5mill or so for a brazilian internation footballer whos only 21 or whatever his age is... add a few mill to that and get Barry and keep alonso and Bam is happy..

I hope even if Real offered 20Mil Rafa would turn them down. We need strength in depth so Barry in addition to our current midfield would be the best outcome. Minus Lucas of course. Assuming we did get rid of Lucas? Well I think it would be worth taking a risk on bumping Spearing into the first team.

[stmichael]

Thought he was very tidy at the weekend again.

Lucas starts for Liverpool

P22 W13 D9 L0 Pts 48

[GYBS]

So we have never lost with Lucas starting  

He was tidy again at weekend and kept things ticking over - it also seems to me that he is becoming a bit more adventrous going forward and getting into the box .

[Owzat]

Thought he was very tidy at the weekend again.

Lucas starts for Liverpool

P22 W13 D9 L0 Pts 48

Gerrard's been in the starting line-up when we've lost, does that make Lucas better than Gerrard? Quick Rafa, compare him to Fabregas and slap a £30m price tag on him leprechaun style! (just kidding all round)

It's rather a meaningless statistic given we've lost only six times in the Premiership in the last two seasons when Lucas has played and he is an irregular starter. If I were to read anything into it, the side doesn't win as often as maybe it could when he starts ie a lot of draws.

Premiership

Lucas Starts : P22 W13 D9 L0 (Won 59.09%)
Lucas Sub : P15 W11 D2 L2 (Won 73.33%)
Lucas Unused : P32 W16 D12 L4 (Won 50.00%)

None of the above tells you anything about the opposition he plays against, how well he played etc. Still reckon he gets more stick than he deserves

[GYBS]

It is like a lot of stats - they look lovely but dont tell the whole story but what it does say is that he hasnt had that much of a detremental effect to our results. I think lucas is unfortunate in many respects - 1. he gets compared against three of the best CMs in the prem if not europe 2. He isnt from liverpool (if he was he wouldnt get any of the stick he gets these days ) 3. He cost 6 mil ( which is nothing compared to 18 odd mil for players like anderson nani and other youngsters that are bought ) 4. He was Brazilian League Player of the Year and is expected to play like other players that have won that award .

He is maturing as a player and last number of games has played very solidly and can only get better .

[Reg]

As mentioned above, any lad is going to struggle to shine when playing alongside 3 of the best midfieldrs in europe and lets face it he did make some massive gaffes when he started out.

I was very anti Lucas however now I have to admit he´s getting his act together and whilst he still makes be nervous - I´m not convinced yet - he seems to have a future at the club. Barry of course is a better player 'today' but he´s also years older with just 2-3 seasons left in him max. If Lucas continues to improve them IMHO we dont need Barry.

[heimdall]

It is like a lot of stats - they look lovely but dont tell the whole story but what it does say is that he hasnt had that much of a detremental effect to our results. I think lucas is unfortunate in many respects - 1. he gets compared against three of the best CMs in the prem if not europe 2. He isnt from liverpool (if he was he wouldnt get any of the stick he gets these days ) 3. He cost 6 mil ( which is nothing compared to 18 odd mil for players like anderson nani and other youngsters that are bought ) 4. He was Brazilian League Player of the Year and is expected to play like other players that have won that award .

He is maturing as a player and last number of games has played very solidly and can only get better .

Do you mean apart from giving away dangerous freekicks and the occasional penalty, and genrally running around and loosing the ball!! 

[heimdall]

As mentioned above, any lad is going to struggle to shine when playing alongside 3 of the best midfieldrs in europe and lets face it he did make some massive gaffes when he started out.

I was very anti Lucas however now I have to admit he´s getting his act together and whilst he still makes be nervous - I´m not convinced yet - he seems to have a future at the club. Barry of course is a better player 'today' but he´s also years older with just 2-3 seasons left in him max. If Lucas continues to improve them IMHO we dont need Barry.

So in that case you must expect Lucas and Barry to reach parity in skill and contribution next season then, wow you really are an optimist!! 

[Reg]

No I didnt say that but I dont like investing in 29 year olds when we have an in-house talent that seems to fit the bill looking forward.

[GYBS]

It is like a lot of stats - they look lovely but dont tell the whole story but what it does say is that he hasnt had that much of a detremental effect to our results. I think lucas is unfortunate in many respects - 1. he gets compared against three of the best CMs in the prem if not europe 2. He isnt from liverpool (if he was he wouldnt get any of the stick he gets these days ) 3. He cost 6 mil ( which is nothing compared to 18 odd mil for players like anderson nani and other youngsters that are bought ) 4. He was Brazilian League Player of the Year and is expected to play like other players that have won that award .

He is maturing as a player and last number of games has played very solidly and can only get better .

Do you mean apart from giving away dangerous freekicks and the occasional penalty, and genrally running around and loosing the ball!! 

He is a young lad still learning his trade - plenty of players make mistakes and do what you say - even the great gerrard has done plenty of them .

He has given away one penalty - ONE Penalty - but lets balance that out against one he has earned shall we . He gave away a silly free kick but lets not mention other players giving away free kicks shall we .