Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I do agree mate, it has changed a lot, but local businessmen still had to make a living in the end too.

I agree the difference is that the owners were supporters too back then.

Yeah but that's my point mate, owners back then tended to make their fortunes in other professions then waste it all on football. Football was like a hobby to them.
Manchester United were owned for years and years by Louis Edwards who was a Manchester Butcher, then his lad Martin took them over.
Peter Swales who owned City started out in a little shop selling musical instruments and sheet music before he made his 'fortune' renting televisions to people back in the days when people couldn't afford to buy them.
It's a million miles away from the oil billionaires and hedge fund managers etc of today.

[red till i die!!]

The only way fans will get their clubs back is if that money machine they call the premier league goes pop. The only way these investors will feck off is if the money dry's up. Finishing 16th in the premiership would yield a bigger purse than winning most of the other european leagues and that's why they are here and not in those other countries.

When fenway bought us they got it for an absolute steal and now almost 5 years in christian purslow's words on it being a bottom of the barrel deal are beginning to ring through. They have in fairness shown they will invest minimal amounts but that money has to be raised from other avenues rather than come from their own pocket. If they do give us something it adds to the overall debt of the club and while we might not be paying interest on it its still money that the club owe's them. They have no presence in Liverpool and just monitor spread sheets from boston with a customary visit once or twice a year. They are not interested in football just money.

The set up that was installed 3 years ago was IMO heavily influenced by rodgers and his 180 pages of tosh. They are that clueless that they got sucked in by a waffler who talks a good game and changed the set up they were preparing to install. Thats how naive they are. They want profits and rodgers along with ayre told them all they wanted to hear. Young players who start at at a low entry level wage, No more lucrative contracts or ageing stars getting final payoffs, scouring the lower leagues for talent. I say this because the contracts we now give out is in line with what ayre was doing at huddersfield and its no secret that rodgers prefer's to work with kids. These policies appeal to fenway but imo largely instigated by the people tasked with carrying it out.

Rodgers can get the can for all i care, Always had my reservations about him and largely confirmed during that horrible program they did in his first couple of weeks. I understand its hard having cameras at your every move but when I heard him having that conversation with flanagan I cringed and had a flashback to when I was about 11 and the team was managed by a local dad. The promise of that exciting football kept me off his back but it wasn't long before it vanished and proved nothing more than a pipe dream. Since then he has stumbled from one system to another by shoving players through multiple positions rather than stick with what he was all about in the first place. When it comes to buying players the man is completely out of his depth and his man management leaves a lot to be desired. The main crux i have is that he is now 3 years in and we still have a poor squad. Our 1st 11 isn't that bad (although it is devoid of quality) when fit and playing at 100% can give anyone a run for it but impossible to expect players to perform at that level every week. This summer will be more of the same, Loads of new faces to integrate into a team that has hardly integrated last years faces means more of the same next season. We will have no CL to entice players with, Not that it mattered last year but will be an excuse he will roll out anyway.

Is he the problem ? IMO a very large part of it. He didn't sign up to something he wasn't aware of or didn't have a say in and there is no way he is taking players because a piece of software says so. No way would any manager put his neck on the line like that and especially not one like Brendan who is all about Brendan.

Is Fenway the problem ? IMO yes another part of it. They bought into something they knew relatively little about and just because its sports orientated doesn't mean the policies work in both.Both sports are the polar opposites to each other and I'm sure they realized this very quick so take a back seat in Boston and entrust the running to the CEO and management team at the club. I do think they have some policies in place like not every player can be paid silly money  or 20% of purchases have to be of a certain age and things like that. I don't think they are meticulously getting involved as in you are not signing this lad because this is the fella you want and 90% of them have to be kids. Of course they have budgets and we only get a percentage of that to spend but they surely couldn't be happy seeing that then go out on loan or not even make the team on matchday. That's not down to them and lies firmly at rodgers and co's feet.
Fenway for me are not great owners because they are not willing to invest to get us to the top and would much rather see us drag ourselves up. They talk about 10 year plans and while people talk about abramovich they also forget he had a 10 year plan but the differences are massive. Fenway bought a pedigree and roman bought a nag but ten years on that nag became more pedigree than us and makes profits. I don't want him as an owner but I do want that kind of plan and I don't think its that much to expect from wealthy owners such as we have.
It remains to be seen for me whether they are the sole cause of the clubs problems or not but If they truly were in it for the long haul then they would have backed up their words of having the money to match anyone statement.

[UvS xR4GEx]

The fans losing faith in the club is so obvious at the moment.. I've never heard Anfield so quiet as it is today. We came so close to winning the league last year after years of disappointments, then our best player leaves, followed by the news that our Captain is leaving at the end of the season!

Its this kind of things that sucks the life out of clubs.. one step forward and 5 steps back. Its like when Torres left just as we were building a title winning side, then it took 2, 3 years to get back to where we were.

I'm starting to feel that if we get a world class player at the club, they want to leave.. we have basically become a stepping stone for players before moving to a "bigger" club, and that's the reason we're never gonna win the league.

[Reg]

I fully undersatnd folks questioning their loyalty, any normal person would after numerous repeated let downs over a good number of years.

The fact remains we haven't achieved any consistency since - for example - we won the CL 10 years ago. We've been through the Rafa cycle, the post Rafa melt down and the BR cycle has failed at this stage to produce a title capable squad. So have we moved forward or are we simply another Spurs? Nice lads but will never seriously threaten the top 3?

Losing Suarez was a massive blow, losing Gerrard is not the end of the world as he has aged, however what is inexcusable is not replacing them. We need 2 transfer policies, one of replacement of key players, then the second moneyball style if that's what we want. But we have to replace key team members, like for like. 

I'm very upset to see Ure get back on their feet but LFC have fallen away. I don't care who you blame, the owners, management or BR however it MUST be rectified.

Quite frankly I'd pay whatever it takes to get Maurice.

[eds]

I don't see why fans blame the owners, I don't get it

How can anyone blame them? They are not the ones who squandered millions on poor signings, nor they are the ones choosing the tactics and choosing the players during match days.

Under FSG we are out of a financial mess, our revenues grew each year and we have recorded a profit since god knows when (2007 I think). In addition to all of this we are underway in expanding our stadium.

So how y'all can blame FSG?

Thanks for putting on the voice recorder on FSG's PR machine but we don't want to hear any excuses right now.

Do you seriously not get the fact that the owners have DICTATED that our strategy is to buy young players and fill in the holes with cheap statistical over-achieving players, hence the formation of this infamous "transfer committee"?

Are you that deluded thinking its someone else's fault we are in this mess to begin with? Who then, Rodgers? Has Rodgers made up the transfer strategy all on this own?

Actually you are probably one of those special "few" that think everything is fine finishing mid-table AGAIN this season 

Maybe I have to translate all of this into American for you, "so y'all understands what I am sayin"

[eds]

I fully undersatnd folks questioning their loyalty, any normal person would after numerous repeated let downs over a good number of years.

The fact remains we haven't achieved any consistency since - for example - we won the CL 10 years ago. We've been through the Rafa cycle, the post Rafa melt down and the BR cycle has failed at this stage to produce a title capable squad. So have we moved forward or are we simply another Spurs? Nice lads but will never seriously threaten the top 3?

Losing Suarez was a massive blow, losing Gerrard is not the end of the world as he has aged, however what is inexcusable is not replacing them. We need 2 transfer policies, one of replacement of key players, then the second moneyball style if that's what we want. But we have to replace key team members, like for like. 

I'm very upset to see Ure get back on their feet but LFC have fallen away. I don't care who you blame, the owners, management or BR however it MUST be rectified.

Quite frankly I'd pay whatever it takes to get Maurice.

Reg we have probably disagreed on almost everything under the sun but you have hit the nail on the head here!

As I highlighted when we sold Suarez we needed to go out and get 1 or 2 players that could come close to filling the hole he had left, for example a Sanchez.

Instead we wasted it on "potentials" and took a massive risk on Balotelli, which left us all scratching our heads?

Same thing is going to happen with Gerrard leaving this summer, we need to go out and get a quality midfielder like a Song or Vidal yet we all know under these deluded yanks the mandate will be to go out and get another over priced 19yo or 20yo. 

Exactly like you I don't have a problem with this moneyball rubbish, as long as it remains an experiment with our squad or fringe players. It should be nowhere near our best XI.

To win trophies you need quality and a bunch of kids ain't going to win you s**t.

[eds]

Good thread this... For all the doomers and gloomers to post so that they won't spread their gloom elsewhere..


Suffice to say I didn't read any of the posts above...

If you haven't read any of the posts then how do you know its all doom and gloom? 

Why are you even posting in this thread then?

Muppet.

[parchpea]

FSG purchased the club under the impression that FFP would be closely monitered and allow their company to catapult Liverpool to the top without spending huge amounts.

The Americans did not envisage that other clubs had already made plans to circumvent the rules, because being American they know it all, despite not even being able to distinguish a throw in from a corner kick.

Comolli was their first embarrasment in tandem with  Dalglish, then Hodgson which needs no words.

At this point they have a good manager but will not allow him to work freely by insisting on a committee to recruit players which has resulted in a catastrophic summer.

Turn on Fenway Sports Group nobody else, G&H wearing a different mask.

[The_Rock]

Although i am pi$$ed with FSG for hiring cheaper and younger u-21, u-18, coaches, scouts, head of development, CEO,...etc.....

i can't say i am really that upset of their player recruitment. Lallana cost $25M. Lovern cost $20M. I wouldn't consider these players as moneyball "potential" players. They were bought for the 1st team (and all evidence point to rodgers really wanting them, pushed for them...etc). If rodgers had signed a top class player for $45M instead, i don't think they were gonna over-write rodgers. The wages being given to lallana and lovern could be combined and used to entice a top player to sign for us and i do think FSG would have sanctioned that. So its not their fault we end up signing players who are not really an improvement over for current players.

Rodgers has to take blame for our horrondous summer transfer record under his stewardship. The players he really pushed for Allen, Borini, Lallana, Lovern have not at all been value for money. Yes, his hands were tied with Markovic and Moreno (he wanted ryan bertrand). But if rogers had his way, i reckon our team will be filled with average british talent.

[kazza]

I fully undersatnd folks questioning their loyalty, any normal person would after numerous repeated let downs over a good number of years.

The fact remains we haven't achieved any consistency since - for example - we won the CL 10 years ago. We've been through the Rafa cycle, the post Rafa melt down and the BR cycle has failed at this stage to produce a title capable squad. So have we moved forward or are we simply another Spurs? Nice lads but will never seriously threaten the top 3?

Losing Suarez was a massive blow, losing Gerrard is not the end of the world as he has aged, however what is inexcusable is not replacing them. We need 2 transfer policies, one of replacement of key players, then the second moneyball style if that's what we want. But we have to replace key team members, like for like. 

I'm very upset to see Ure get back on their feet but LFC have fallen away. I don't care who you blame, the owners, management or BR however it MUST be rectified.

Quite frankly I'd pay whatever it takes to get Maurice.

Good post

[kazza]

I have not seen evidence of the owners lining their pockets off the team so I cannot blame them for their spend as you make policy. The previous owners were fleecing the club and we were on the road to oblivion, with these owners I feel we are a sound business entity and although that may not win trophies in this mega million pound world of the prem, we are stable financially with a crop of young players that if on the whole will stick together, will improve every year.

They have got a young manager that preaches attractive football, a young bunch of quick, tecnical and talented players and are improving the capacity of Anfield, that sounds like proactive vision to me. That to me sounds like a "plan" and a plan is clear evidence of a strategy with thought put into it. The only problem really is by us over archiving last year, it changed expectations.

I feel we are on the right path and will really become a force as long as the players stick together. It was never going to be seamless and from where we were with the last owners it was always going to take time. We are however much better than we were with the last owners.

Not making the CL this year will be a huge blow in that plan and a big step back however.

[JC_81]

FSG purchased the club under the impression that FFP would be closely monitered and allow their company to catapult Liverpool to the top without spending huge amounts.

The Americans did not envisage that other clubs had already made plans to circumvent the rules, because being American they know it all, despite not even being able to distinguish a throw in from a corner kick.

Comolli was their first embarrasment in tandem with  Dalglish, then Hodgson which needs no words.

At this point they have a good manager but will not allow him to work freely by insisting on a committee to recruit players which has resulted in a catastrophic summer.

Turn on Fenway Sports Group nobody else, G&H wearing a different mask.

You are re-writing history there mate.

Hodgson was not hired by FSG.  One of FSG's first acts was to remove him and replace him with Dalglish as a stop-gap until they found a younger coach for the long term.

But I believe you are right re FSG banking on FFP being upheld and therefore creating a successful 'franchise' and a winning team without a ridiculous outlay.  In reality FFP was always going to be difficult to police and loopholes were always going to be found.

Look at Man City and Chelsea.  Massively smaller fanbases than us, surely a smaller turnover, yet they can hand out 200k per week contracts for fun and still operate within FFP rules??  They are clearly fiddling the books, but proving it must be hard.  City spent the guts of 30 mil on Bony despite 'restrictions' already in place for FFP breach - how does that happen?

Our best hope is that things even out over time.  City and Chelsea have very valuable squads due to money spent on them pre-FFP, therefore they can still sell to buy and maintain superstar squads for a few years yet.  We were at a disadvantage in having a very poor squad just as FFP was coming in and therefore massive outlays to overhaul the squad are clearly going to breach rules.  The Suarez money was our chance to catch up, but Moreno, Manquillo, Markovic, Balotelli and Lovren have been disasters to varying degrees.  A few of them might be better in their second season, but some won't.

All that said, we are still capable of challenging for top 4 as we have done this season.  But for a really poor start we could even have been in the title mix. 

I think with the right signings this summer we could kick on and with stadium redevelopment we would be moving in the right direction.

From a playing perspective my worry is that when I look at where our weaknesses are, it's the spine of the team.  We need a more reliable keeper, we need a good centre back, we need a dominant central midfielder and we need a first choice striker.  These players do not come cheap and the players bought are not guaranteed to be successes.  I would still advocate selling Sterling and reinvesting the money in these areas.  I'd also get rid of Balotelli and Lovren.  Gerrard, Toure and Johnson will likely be off the wage bill too, freeing up more funds.  With this degree of change we risk starting badly again next year if we have 4-5 new players to integrate, but it looks necessary.

[metalhead]

I don't see why fans blame the owners, I don't get it

How can anyone blame them? They are not the ones who squandered millions on poor signings, nor they are the ones choosing the tactics and choosing the players during match days.

Under FSG we are out of a financial mess, our revenues grew each year and we have recorded a profit since god knows when (2007 I think). In addition to all of this we are underway in expanding our stadium.

So how y'all can blame FSG?

Thanks for putting on the voice recorder on FSG's PR machine but we don't want to hear any excuses right now.

Do you seriously not get the fact that the owners have DICTATED that our strategy is to buy young players and fill in the holes with cheap statistical over-achieving players, hence the formation of this infamous "transfer committee"?

Are you that deluded thinking its someone else's fault we are in this mess to begin with? Who then, Rodgers? Has Rodgers made up the transfer strategy all on this own?

Actually you are probably one of those special "few" that think everything is fine finishing mid-table AGAIN this season 

Maybe I have to translate all of this into American for you, "so y'all understands what I am sayin"

If you don't want to hear excuses either don't reply/ignore or have a constructive debate instead of resorting to silly comments such as ''few that think everything is fine finishing mid table again this season''. 

Can you dispute the clear cut FACTS that off the field we have recorded a profit since 2007, our revenues grew since 2011 and the club is out of threat of financial distress (Let me put it in english for you: risk of bankruptcy) because the new owners lowered the debts by paying off some of the debts. Can you dispute that the owners also BACKED the manager with money, so you blame them for spending 117m on players? You spend 20m on Dejan Lovren because he is a ''cheap statistical overachieving player''? 20m for that something cheap? 20m for Markovic? You really think he is another moneyball player? Rodgers AND the transfer committee dictate the transfers, they are given the funds by the owners for them to use and choose the players, yes FSG might prefer younger over older players, but they don't dictate how the transfers are going, that's why they set up a transfer committee to work with the manager in the recruitment of players. Also tell me why did we sign Lambert? He is no spring chicken is he? Why are we considering offering contracts to the likes of Glen Johnson?

[7_Kewell]

I completely agree with Metalhead.

Our owners might not be perfect, but they have secured the long term future of the club and started to (finally) expand Anfield.

FSG don't pick the players, identify the targets or organise the first team tactics.

Likewise, I'd also disagree with the mad idea that 20m players are "cheap"

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I completely agree with Metalhead.

Our owners might not be perfect, but they have secured the long term future of the club and started to (finally) expand Anfield.

FSG don't pick the players, identify the targets or organise the first team tactics.

Likewise, I'd also disagree with the mad idea that 20m players are "cheap"

1. Deciding not to move away from Anfield is something I'll be eternally grateful to FSG for.

2. We discovered half way through the season that a computer program has more say about who we bring in than anyone.

3. £20m isn't anything to be sniffed at but let's face it the top teams are regularly spending £40m-£80m on players now, there's been about 20 players sold in that bracket and there will be another load this summer (Bale, Sterling etc)