Liverpool's decline - Who to blame - long term

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby The_Rock » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:06 pm

Judge wrote:regardless of results lately, rafa has conducted himself in post match interviews with dignity

there must be more to this than the simple: its rafas fault, or the players etc. since the yanks have turned up, we are playing worse.

is that the answer, its the yanks fault, i dunno

but a team doesnt just get bad overnight. perhaps others have the measure of us, and its time for all to stand up and be counted

i expect the lads at LFC are shell shocked and are finding it hard to come to terms with. they need to get to grips with it and soon

Have to give rafa credit for that....  He is doing a great job keeping the vultures (reporters) at bay. Those guys are waiting for a slip up from rafa....
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Postby MR C » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:31 pm

its funny for years i have been moaning about the board,but oh no i was a silent voice all alone.
it was not the liverpool way to moan about the board.

i could clearly see these guys did not have a clue about football and were blagging it.

i also think that the great liverpool fans got old and lost the plot with following tradition.
so now we have old liverpool fans past it and rely on tradition .....yawn yawn. they have convinced younger fans they know best,which has resulted in the younger following the older ones.this has resulted in a very boring vibe at liverpool.

i can't wait for the new stadium to open,so we can unleash new energy from the fans.
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Postby LegBarnes » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:39 pm

i blame who ever started surporting liverpool in 1975 , but end of day who cares i wanna know how to fix liverpool not brake it agian.
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Postby parchpea » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:09 pm

I recall in my own mind the semi final FA Cup defeat at the hands of Crystal Palace as some kind of turning point. Liverpool lost the game from such a commanding position against a young athletic Palace team and somehow from that day we never had the feel of a team that was invincible. Before then teams where beat before they took to the field against Liverpool but Palace just went for us and ran us off the park second half and its a game that just sticks in the memory as one where the club crossed a line.

I also think the club was too slow too adapt to change as the game moved from a mere sport into being a brand. They never embraced the changing world and others did, particulary Utd I am afraid to say, and this alllowed them to catch and pass us with their extra revenues. Strangely we are still attempting to adapt now and it just goes to show how long we buried ourselves in the past amidst an ever changing football world. It has cost us dearly over many years now and still does to this very day.
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Postby MR C » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:28 pm

maybe rafas beard is to blame,since he has grown that thing all has not been well.

maybe its time for david guest to return.
everybody thought rafa was david guest twin,so he he grew a beard.
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Postby Ciggy » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:31 pm

MR C wrote:maybe rafas beard is to blame,since he has grown that thing all has not been well.

maybe its time for david guest to return.
everybody thought rafa was david guest twin,so he he grew a beard.

Only bitter call him that :glare:
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Postby KennyisGod....still » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:17 pm

I put the blame on our commercial naivety. Take even the small things, like the club shop..... For how long was it just a small venture, not attempting to cash in on the glory the team had achieved? I know Liverpool has never been a 'rich' city financially (no offence to any scousers, but by rich I'm talkin london chelsea type money) but its always had followers with cash to spend. The board never took to being a business, always preferring the Anfield way, the Liverpool way.

Unfortunately it's bitin our a$Ses off rite now. The stadium was needed financially 5 years ago or more, not in a few years time. We could sell 60,000+ seats a week no bother, but have to rely on 44,000. The shirt deals..... never got what we deserve I feel when you bear in mind our heritage. Were we able to sell more shirts abroad, that would'v changed considerably, as would the money.
Look at branded goods on sale now......walk into cardshops and you're confronted by rows of Manx or Chelski stuff.......why not Liverpool? Cuz it aint the Liverpool way. All this has to stop, we have to make what we can financially, not relyin on the ticket sales and the club shop.

We lost our way when Kenny went. I know it's a sensitive subject, but Hillsborough hit the club harder than some would believe in my opinion. The fact so many players and officials were personally involved showed they cared for fans and club, but then who did they turn to? Players and management aint trained grief councillors and despite best efforts I don't believe it's an easily self-taught discipline.

Successive managers tried to put their mark on the club, Souness tryin to do what he did at Rangers, but learnin that it wernt quite so easy down here. Don't get me wrong, I love Souness, and spent all last month hopin he'd get the Jock job, but this club wernt for his style of management. Not that quick anyhow. Roy Evans tried, and from what I see was as near to being a Paisley type character as could be. He had bad luck, was then (for me anyhow) dis-respected by the club bringin him a helpin hand and makin a two-man management team. Destroyed a fine man, turned him into a shell. He was never too keen on the cameras and Houllier comin in thrust him further into the spot light.

Houlliers reign wasn't bad really. With all that had gone on before, the team wasn't in good shape despite Roys attempts to bolster it. GH came in and will always hold sway as he put us before his own health, had that amazin season where if it was a cup it was ours but then lost the plot. And now we know where we are currently.

Not one single reason for it, lotsa little ones addin up. But look at one major difference where the scum are concerned....... since Kenny left us, they've had - I think I'm rite, but will stand corrected if needs be - one manager. 1. So maybe theres another little reason to throw in..... consistency. Not rafa's favourite word I admit, but its up there as a reason for why they're where they are now.

We need to get to that point. We need to bite that bullet and accept we're not the Liverpool of old. Jesus I know we say it week in week out, but how many of us accept it? How many of us go into every game expectin us to win, regardless of opposition? I know I did satdy. That needs to come to a big stop, the new owners, once these parasites do the decent thing, need to lay down a marker, a plan along with their management team, whoever it is,and STICK to it. Make it realistic, not an impossible dream, and STICK with it.

Then maybe we can drag this club from its illustrious silver laden past, into a future so bright it'll make the trophy room look dull.
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Beside the Hillsborough Flame, I heard a Koppite mournin, "Why so many taken on that day?" Justice has never been done. But their memory we'll carry on. There'll be Glory Round The Fields Of Anfield Road
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Postby Owzat » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:20 pm

I blame progress, if only it had stayed being the 80s with the best side winning instead of the commercial circus of the Premiership when other clubs dared to outspend us!

But seriously didn't it all go wrong when we stopped appointing from within? There was no going back from there, no continuity from the great days and Souness dismantled the side and tried to make us into Rangers
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Postby nemolyk » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:58 pm

pool boss
pool ceo
pool manager
so pool result
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Postby Homebooby » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:05 pm

Souness plain and simple.
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Postby big al » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:54 pm

In this thread I don't want quick quotes and wise cracks I hope that you all analyse and comment on the club,owners, team, fans management, scouting, youth system, formations, stadium and players.  In fact everything tells us what you think needs to happen and what each needs to do. Rafa has said for the first time that he has got things wrong and he needs to put them right so what are the things that are wrong. Can I set a rule that no matter what anyone says we dont call them idiots or say they're talking out their backside its ok to disagree but please say why.  Since starting to post here again I have saw people say they disagree with my points but the dont say why. I am not going to do the obvious thing and start the debate I would like to hear other people views so can you comment in this order
The stadium
The owners
The directors and CEO
The Fans
The Scouting system
The youth system
The manager
The formations and systems
The players
The club overall club


Obviously if you think nothing is wrong then don't post.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:03 pm

The stadium...only gets atmosphere on the big nights, but that's more down to fans.
The owners...brought far to much attention onto the club.
The directors...have been sort of in between the owners and manager.
The fans...don't get up for enough games anymore. Also starting to slate players, managers and board isn't helping. It's times like this we need togetherness.
The scouting system...have brought enough kids over, but haven't been given the chances YET.
The youth system...always been quality youngsters in our system, just need to be given the chances.
The manager...rotatation/tacitcs/signings/stubborness all played a part in us failing this year.
The formations and systems...certain games have been tactically spot on, others have left us scratching our heads.
The players...to many under performers this season, and happy to do so because they still pick up their wages.
The club overall...far to much unwanted media spotlight. That's because of a combinantion of reasons. We need next season to be on the back pages for the correct reasons.
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Postby Bad Bob » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:52 pm

big al wrote:In this thread I don't want quick quotes and wise cracks I hope that you all analyse and comment on the club,owners, team, fans management, scouting, youth system, formations, stadium and players.  In fact everything tells us what you think needs to happen and what each needs to do. Rafa has said for the first time that he has got things wrong and he needs to put them right so what are the things that are wrong. Can I set a rule that no matter what anyone says we dont call them idiots or say they're talking out their backside its ok to disagree but please say why.  Since starting to post here again I have saw people say they disagree with my points but the dont say why. I am not going to do the obvious thing and start the debate I would like to hear other people views so can you comment in this order
The stadium
The owners
The directors and CEO
The Fans
The Scouting system
The youth system
The manager
The formations and systems
The players
The club overall club


Obviously if you think nothing is wrong then don't post.

I've merged your thread into this one, Big Al, as they cover much the same ground.  Good discussion points though, mate.  :)
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Postby chrisrafman » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:09 pm

The Stadium - I love Anfield but it doest generate enough revenue.
The owners - know :censored: all about the game or how to run a football club, should get dalglish in as director of football to make sure the club is run properly and in a real Liverpool style.
The directors - Need to educate the daft yanks quickly and bleed some cash for players out of them
The Fans - Although we have the best, the fans should be louder at the smaller occasion games
The youth system - Nothing since Gerrard. Been great in the past but dissapointing recently. Winning the youth cup last year may be something to be excited about for the next few years
The scouting system - "Cheyrou the next Zidane" speaks for itself
The manager - Will never forget Istanbul and Cardiff but its falling apart for him right now, ideally it would be him who takes to no.19 but i dont think it will
The formations and systems - FAILURE! The talent in the squad is carrying us this year, tactics are failing big-time
The Players - Some are class, some are underperforming (drastically), some are simply not good enough for our club. We need at least 3 big signings in the summer if we are to progress next season
The Club Overall - Rather chaotic, under fire manager, under performing players and ongoing speculation about who will be running the club. We have a great chance to win the CL this year but even if we do we must realise the season is once again a failure domestically.
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Postby big al » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:01 am

Bad Bob i was sad to see that this thread has been merged because they are not the same.  I was and am still asking what's wrong with Liverpool.  I dont think theres much wrong, yet on this site we constantly are beating up rafa, the club, Ourselves. Liverpool is no where near being on the decline we are and have remained by and large one of the top four clubs in England, despite the bad managers before Rafa and after K Daglish.  We have never decended to the depths of Man u, since the days of Shankly.  We do have problems but they are minor Liverpool is and remains one of the biggest clubs in world football the difference between Liverpool and everyone else outside the top four in massive.  So I am disappointed you did'nt see the irony in my thread.  Does this mean Bob that you think Liverpool FC is on the decline, because I dont and thats why I started a thread different to Big Naill.
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