Is it time for the unthinkable? - Caretaker manager time?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Igor Zidane » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:31 am

Sabre wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:SIDE ISSUE , NOT IMPORTANT ANYMORE . TO LATE FOR RAFA NOW . Use your passion and love for the club on more imortant issues like it's feckin future . Not on wether we need a fecking caretaker manager or not . THe season's over ,were not going to be relagated ,fight the feckin fight .

I have info from SOS and threads of newkit about how important is that fight you talk about, and I agree it's important, but the season is not over mate.

As long as 11 men in a red shirt try to get that 4th place, beat the french and advance to the next round, the fans have to support them.

Being 4th is very important for the club aswell and it's not out of reach, even if we did a disasterous season. The red men can't give up that fight now, they have to focus on doing a decent end of season, regardless the protests of the supporters, and regardless the supporters are right.

Let the players fight on the pitch if there that @sred , we as supportrers need to focus on one thing only and that's the owners and the future at our club nothing else .
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:31 am

Igor Zidane wrote:SIDE ISSUE , NOT IMPORTANT ANYMORE . TO LATE FOR RAFA NOW . Use your passion and love for the club on more imortant issues like it's feckin future . Not on wether we need a fecking caretaker manager or not . THe season's over ,were not going to be relagated ,fight the feckin fight .

WELL FUCKIN SAID LASH, THANX BUT NO MORE YANKS !!!!
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Postby Owzat » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:31 am

J*o*n*D*o*e wrote:why dont we get some caretaker players in, you no to replace the ones who dont want to play for the current manager, the guy who before this season done a pretty decent job, now theres an idea.

We got a pretty good points return last season, but that was due to some late goals, luck with red cards against but despite the points the limitations that come with Rafa were all too apparent.

I'd be ok with him staying as manager IF he showed he was capable of changing the way the team is set-up, the way the team is playing, even acknowledging his system both overall and zonal marking is cr a.p. Perhaps for a change ditch the Lucas-Mascherano midfield, maybe even play two up front or something that suggests he doesn't think HE is doing or has done anything wrong.

Last season it was too many draws, not being able to beat Fulham, West Ham, Stoke home or away, bitters, Wigan etc. This season it has been just that bit worse, defeats to Fulham, PORTSMOUTH, WIGAN, READING, Lille, Lyon and Fiorentina (both at home) and we've been subjected to awful football as well. It is my assertion any manager worth his salt should be able to sort out defensive problems, but Rafa doesn't seem to be able to. At times last season we may not have conceded so many, but a fair few times that was more luck than judgement.


All that said I'm not sure a caretaker is necessarily the best move. We might get lucky in the summer and Real Madrid might have a vacancy for a waiter, but the truth is if we were going to shift Rafa out then surely it should have been after the failure to secure the win in Lyon that cost us in the Champions League, or after the shambles against Reading. Both had "Rafa" written all over them, trying to defend narrow leads in games we were winning but unconvincing in. And it has carried on, while I am not too bothered about the Lille result because it isn't a bad result in the context of the tie, nor is it unexpected and it sure as hell isn't a cup I'd chase at the expense of finishing 4th, we are looking decidely 4th favourites to finish 4th.

Kenny as caretaker might have its appeal, see if he can cope with management so long after his last crack at it. Plenty will cite how long fergie took to win the league, plenty also turn a blind eye to the fact that Kenny was winning league titles when fergie took over at the mancs. He might not work out, I'm never that keen on going back, but he might inspire the players to rally and finish the season on a high. He surely can't do any worse than Rafa is at the moment, anyone moving away from the current system has to be worth trying.

There's a lot more at stake than 4th place, a tin pot trophy and having to pay Rafa off. There is the money from Europe and what missing out could cost, there is the potential for key players to leave and there is the fact that not many top players will want to come here if we're not in the Champions League. While some may think we should go all out for said tin pot trophy, do they wish that at the expense of no top players coming here, no CL football and Torres, Mascherano, Gerrard and others maybe being sold? There is every chance clubs will move in like they did with Alonso, there is every chance the owners will see a dip in revenue and decide players have to be sold. Will they give Rafa £40m this summer, partly from sales or otherwise, if we don't have CL cash coming in?!?!?

Maybe we could seek salvation from selling Gerrard and Torres to Citeh for £200m, might not seem a perfect solution but that money might just undo a lot of damage done by this season. Wouldn't want Rafa spending any money that was made available though
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Postby maguskwt » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:18 am

Ben Patrick wrote:
kazza wrote:
bavlondon wrote:You only have to look at the teams he is linked with. Real, Juventus... We are lucky he has stuck around this far tbh. He cares about the club and the fans and he puts up with a lot. Even Shankly had his own faults, he is only human.

He is a workaholic, lives and breaths football. He is always at the club trying to improve it. He loves the club. He wants to be responsible for every part of the club. He is tactically superb. These are the qualities of great managers and if we lose him, he will go on to other top teams and do well. If there is a lack of effort or extreme self-centered ness, he should probably go, but there isn't and he should not.

Blaming solely the manager for this season and thinking that were he to leave everything will improve from then on is so simplistic that it borders idiotic.

if he lives and breathes football then why is he failing so miserably this season ?
If he is tactically so great why has he persisted with the same formation and tactics all season when they are clearly not working ?

I agree that if and when he goes he will probably do a decent job elsewhere as he is a good organiser.
He will probably make his new team difficult to beat and work hard and try and control games.

But he is not doing that anymore for us.
This season has been nothing short of a disgrace and while i agree he is not solely to blame, he is the main reason.

How anyone thinks that things will miraculously be better next season without a change to me is FAR more idiotic.
Based on what ??

The answer to your questions, and I'll tell you a little secret... the game you are watching is called football. Rafa has picked the best line-up availabe to him this season... so now you want him to go back to his tinkering ways? you want Bick Mick to dig up that old boring thread Rotation, the constant chopping and changing of line-up the way Rafa does or whatever? Damn if he does damn if he doesn't isn't it? We lost a key player in Alonso in the summer. And Rafa had raised alot of money in player sales and he only got spend half of it. The other half went to making the debts that the owner put on the club a little bit more bearable. Not only that, the owners twisted their words by saying the promised transfer chest for the summer included renewing contracts of existing key players. What kind of transfer chest is that then? As a result Rafa had to gamble on Aquilani and failed and as a result we're suffering. I blame the owners more than Rafa. Sure rafa is not perfect, and God knows why he didn't look at signing Owen on free or try to involve Huntelaar during the Alonso deal with Real. But I have a feeling it has to do with the wage limit on the players as well. Most players at Real would already be earning big bucks and it is step backwards for them to be earning alot less at Liverpool. But he has brought the club a long way last season, and also re-established us as a force to be reckoned with in Europe. Other top managers like Ferguson and Wenger can afford to make these kind of mistakes but Rafa can't. The final step is the hardest but instead of assisting Rafa in the final step, the owners pulled the rug from under his feet.

Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe we should be looking for a simpler, more straight foward and less sophisticated manager like Mcleish, who would be able to bring something more than Rafa could bring at the moment within such difficult limitations. But I highly doubt so. The only one manager I trust who can do it in this kind of situation is Hiddink and that ship has sailed. and I agree with Kazza whoever comes in, we can't expect things to turn around that easily.
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Postby zarababe » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:57 pm

Yeh Caretaker manager time - lets bring in ........................... ALEX McLEISH  :help  :help

For a manager who has been off-setting the clubs debts from almost day one, wheeling and dealing in Morrissons (average superstore), whilst others have shopped in Waitrose ( posho snobbish superstore).. who woud want to come in and steer the wreck ensuing as a result of a lack of 'REAL' term investment - figures have been quoted elsewhere on these pages, but on average Benitez has spent £20 mill a season in real terms. Who can turn this club around on such a shoe-string budget..

I say to Benitez GO NOW.. you should not be managing a club where you have become the club ACCOUTANT.. in fact no-one will wanna touch this ship with a barge pole, unless some serious investment is made in club and player recruitment.

Today Liverpool FC is... a sinking ship and the disasterous decision to sell to the current 'custodians' (PARRY: " you only sell the family silverware once  :lookaround ) has become a noose around all knecks.

When these came in there was the hope of Benitez getting enough funds to strengthen... 9remember those heady days, Rafa , Stevie and Carra,, all smiles hosting the welcome to Anfield party) since they have come they have undermined him, fallen-out with each other and taken sides not to strengthen each's position.. and in the meantime others have entered the fray Villa City Spurs..

If we finish outside top 4 (don't want to..but) it will be a good thing for the custodians to see, how their crass policy has driven us down.

Walk on Benitez..
Last edited by zarababe on Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dawson99 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:02 pm

People are still blamnig the owners?

yeah the owners are pish, we all know that, but Rafa has to shoulder blame as well. Its all well and good shouting out about saving the club, but with amanager who aint doing us any favours why would anyone wanna buy us? Its a vicouscircle (sp). Without a good manager we wont be brought, we wont get a good manager til we are brought...

i dunno the answer
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Postby zarababe » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:04 pm

We have a good manager - we have a bad policy .. which makes it impossible for ANY MANAGER to operate
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RAFA.. MADE THE PEOPLE HAPPY !

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Postby Scottbot » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:09 pm

Ciggy wrote:RAFA OUT !!!! BIG ECK IN !!!!!!!  :buttrock   :no

Liverpool are monitoring Alex McLeish’s contract talks at Birmingham closely as Rafa Benitez continues to struggle.

Reds manager Benitez, 49, penned a lucrative new deal a year ago, committing him to the club until 2014.

But Liverpool face a battle to finish in the top four of the Premier League and lost the first leg of their last 16 Europa League tie at Lille 1-0 on Thursday.

Benitez still has the support of the club’s under-fire American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

But Brum boss Big ’Eck is in their contingency plans should Benitez quit or the season end in complete disaster.

The former Scotland and Rangers chief has guided Brum to eighth on a modest budget which has impressed the Anfield hierarchy.

He is in negotiations with new owner Carson Yeung and has a buy-out clause of just £1million in his contract, which expires in 18 months.

Lynds, I can't believe you even opened a news story from the worlds worst rumour site (after kraptalk) 'Tribal Football'! I saw the ridiculous title and it is pretty much par for the course for them. If and when Rafa goes I remain pretty confident there will be a few better candidates than Alex McLeish up for the job.
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Postby dawson99 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:28 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Ciggy wrote:RAFA OUT !!!! BIG ECK IN !!!!!!!  :buttrock   :no

Liverpool are monitoring Alex McLeish’s contract talks at Birmingham closely as Rafa Benitez continues to struggle.

Reds manager Benitez, 49, penned a lucrative new deal a year ago, committing him to the club until 2014.

But Liverpool face a battle to finish in the top four of the Premier League and lost the first leg of their last 16 Europa League tie at Lille 1-0 on Thursday.

Benitez still has the support of the club’s under-fire American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

But Brum boss Big ’Eck is in their contingency plans should Benitez quit or the season end in complete disaster.

The former Scotland and Rangers chief has guided Brum to eighth on a modest budget which has impressed the Anfield hierarchy.

He is in negotiations with new owner Carson Yeung and has a buy-out clause of just £1million in his contract, which expires in 18 months.

Lynds, I can't believe you even opened a news story from the worlds worst rumour site (after kraptalk) 'Tribal Football'! I saw the ridiculous title and it is pretty much par for the course for them. If and when Rafa goes I remain pretty confident there will be a few better candidates than Alex McLeish up for the job.

Would we have better candidates? Struggling for 4th, no money, massive debts, players possibly leaving if the bigman goes...

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Postby tubby » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:08 pm

dawson99 wrote:People are still blamnig the owners?

yeah the owners are pish, we all know that, but Rafa has to shoulder blame as well. Its all well and good shouting out about saving the club, but with amanager who aint doing us any favours why would anyone wanna buy us? Its a vicouscircle (sp). Without a good manager we wont be brought, we wont get a good manager til we are brought...

i dunno the answer

Dawson we have had a bad season we know that but the way you are talking about Rafa is as if every season he has been here has been poor. Also I don't think the current manager has any bearing on if anyone wants to buy us or not. If someone wanted to buy usit would cost a lot of money so im sure paying off the manager would hardly break the bank for them.
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Postby only me » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:36 pm

dawson99 wrote:People are still blamnig the owners?

yeah the owners are pish, we all know that, but Rafa has to shoulder blame as well. Its all well and good shouting out about saving the club, but with amanager who aint doing us any favours why would anyone wanna buy us? Its a vicouscircle (sp). Without a good manager we wont be brought, we wont get a good manager til we are brought...

i dunno the answer

In a way it is the owners as they are the one who can release/replace the manager - if they choose to keep things as is then they share the over all responsibility.
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:01 pm

Scottbot wrote:Lynds, I can't believe you even opened a news story from the worlds worst rumour site (after kraptalk) 'Tribal Football'! I saw the ridiculous title and it is pretty much par for the course for them. If and when Rafa goes I remain pretty confident there will be a few better candidates than Alex McLeish up for the job.

I didnt open Kraptalk atall it was in the Daily mirror yesterday.

[url=http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-keeping-a-close-eye-on-Alex-McLeish-s-contract-talks-with-Birmingham-as-Rafa-Ben
itez-continues-to-struggle-at-Anfield-article353255.html]http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news....55.html[/url]
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:20 pm

dawson99 wrote:People are still blamnig the owners?

yeah the owners are pish, we all know that, but Rafa has to shoulder blame as well. Its all well and good shouting out about saving the club, but with amanager who aint doing us any favours why would anyone wanna buy us? Its a vicouscircle (sp). Without a good manager we wont be brought, we wont get a good manager til we are brought...

i dunno the answer

Distraction , the club is most important . Do not get distracted by side issues anymore , The season is lost the manager is lost you've won your arguement . NOW CAN WE CONENTRATE ON GETTING RID OF THE OWNERS PLEASE . What more do you want .
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Postby 7_Kewell » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:50 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Ciggy wrote:RAFA OUT !!!! BIG ECK IN !!!!!!!  :buttrock   :no

Liverpool are monitoring Alex McLeish’s contract talks at Birmingham closely as Rafa Benitez continues to struggle.

Reds manager Benitez, 49, penned a lucrative new deal a year ago, committing him to the club until 2014.

But Liverpool face a battle to finish in the top four of the Premier League and lost the first leg of their last 16 Europa League tie at Lille 1-0 on Thursday.

Benitez still has the support of the club’s under-fire American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

But Brum boss Big ’Eck is in their contingency plans should Benitez quit or the season end in complete disaster.

The former Scotland and Rangers chief has guided Brum to eighth on a modest budget which has impressed the Anfield hierarchy.

He is in negotiations with new owner Carson Yeung and has a buy-out clause of just £1million in his contract, which expires in 18 months.

Lynds, I can't believe you even opened a news story from the worlds worst rumour site (after kraptalk) 'Tribal Football'! I saw the ridiculous title and it is pretty much par for the course for them. If and when Rafa goes I remain pretty confident there will be a few better candidates than Alex McLeish up for the job.

I like Mcleish and would be made up to see him here. He's a good manager and he takes no $*i*e.

As for better candidates, who exactly?  And please don't say Mourinho, because it will never happen.
Last edited by 7_Kewell on Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scottbot » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:03 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Scottbot wrote:Lynds, I can't believe you even opened a news story from the worlds worst rumour site (after kraptalk) 'Tribal Football'! I saw the ridiculous title and it is pretty much par for the course for them. If and when Rafa goes I remain pretty confident there will be a few better candidates than Alex McLeish up for the job.

I didnt open Kraptalk atall it was in the Daily mirror yesterday.

[url=http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-keeping-a-close-eye-on-Alex-McLeish-s-contract-talks-with-Birmingham-as-Rafa-Ben

itez-continues-to-struggle-at-Anfield-article353255.html]http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news....55.html[/url]

Soz, I saw it was one of 'Tribal Football's' healdines when i checked Newsnow this morning. Wasn't suggesting you looked at Kraptalk, am not even sure it exists anymore does it?
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