Is it time for the unthinkable? - Caretaker manager time?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby J*o*n*D*o*e » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:30 pm

ive just checked .tv and there is no mention of Benitez not being here next season.
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Postby aCe' » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:42 pm

john craig wrote:But the issue of the caretaker manager isn't really an issue for me.  Madrid won't approach him, if they're going to, until the end of the season.  To put him on 'gardening leave' before an approach has been made and bring a caretaker in, is essentially sacking him and we'd have to pay the compensation in full most likely.  That's a completely different scenario from Benitez going to the board and asking permission to speak to another club, in that situation we'd get away with paying compensation because he's asking to go.

So no, for me bringing in a caretaker manager won't happen, whether it would affect results on the pitch or not.

Gotta agree with this...

However if we assume that money isnt an issue, it would be hard to see how bringing in anyone else would be bad for the side in terms of results.. We have a major problem when it comes to tactics that many people seem to ignore in favor of just questioning players for effort and desire...
No doubt the players arent performing to their potential, but to me it has more to do with the setup/tactics/selections...etc rather than the players simply giving up on the club under the current manager... I think if Benitez today decides to change his approach to managing the side, and perhaps tries to be a little more positive in his approach and in his decisions regarding certain players, we'd see an instant improvement in performances and results... There have been way too many occasions this season where his selections and formations cost us points...  Long before the whole "players arent putting the effort" stuff started coming about.. As a result i agree the team morale, mentality, or whatever you want to call it has been low in recent games but its not simply because the players dont believe in the manager and his abilities any more...

Formation, tactics and selections...  even under Benitez and with the current group of players, if he would somehow be convinced to recconsider them, we could get ourselves out of this hole and perhaps push on in the fight for 4th...
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Postby The Good Yank » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:19 pm

metalhead wrote:No, Lets stick with Rafa until the end of the season. I don't think its best to see a caretaker manager right now with alot of shyte happening. Its better to see off the season with Rafa right now because honestly our season cannot be saved anymore, so it wouldn't make a difference if he was sacked now and someone took his place.

Lets finish this season, and start with a new management in the next one

I agree that our season cannot be saved.  But that doesn't mean that the downward spiral won"t continue.  I even think that going along in a Status Quo frame of mind won't do any good either. If things aren't changed I fear Torres and Gerrard getting more and more frustrated and looking to leave the club at the end of the season. 

While the prospect of not playing in the Champions League will not be very appealing to our top players, if a change was made to invigorate the players to the point that they actually showed that they are willing to put in the effort would be a huge improvement on the current status.

If these players were to be in an environment where they were able to enjoy playing again, they probably still wouldn't finish fourth, but they would be determined to come back in August and give it a proper go with a new mindset.

So yeah, I would be on board with a caretaker situation if only because it would be a change and this desperate situation we are facing is woefully in need of a change.
s@int - 13 December 2009

I won't celebrate Rafa going........ but I will be over the moon if Dalglish comes in. League within 2 years if he gets the job, AND YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THAT.
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Postby puroresu » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:45 pm

I would of got rid after the CL debacle.  Reading should of been the final straw. We could of got someone else in then and and had a real push for 4th.  Probably too late now but given the choice I would still get rid of him now.  Get a caretaker in now and get Rijkaard in for next season.
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Postby J*o*n*D*o*e » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:53 pm

why dont we get some caretaker players in, you no to replace the ones who dont want to play for the current manager, the guy who before this season done a pretty decent job, now theres an idea.
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Postby tonyeh » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:04 pm

..
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Postby lakes10 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:05 pm

this season cannot be saved but could a caretaker manager stop the rot? yes
all the press lads seem to know that our club would only ever put a caretaker in place for a very few games, Sammy Lee with someone next to him.


as for this thing about RAFA going at the end of the season , well if 100% proof could be found that he has set this up then we could sack Rafa and it would cost us nothing as its breach of contract.
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Postby metalhead » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:09 pm

lakes10 wrote:this season cannot be saved but could a caretaker manager stop the rot? yes
all the press lads seem to know that our club would only ever put a caretaker in place for a very few games, Sammy Lee with someone next to him.


as for this thing about RAFA going at the end of the season , well if 100% proof could be found that he has set this up then we could sack Rafa and it would cost us nothing as its breach of contract.

Why would Rafa set this up? ???

He has any personal grudges on the team? total b*llox lakes
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Postby parchpea » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:37 pm

We cannot afford not to release Benitez and that alone should now be our main objective whether it be now or at the end of the season.One way or another it has to be done and we then take a look at possible replacements and deal with any playing staff that are not happy working without hima.We need to rip it up and start again, go back to eventually move forward.This time I feel with a focus on youth development and recruiting good young technical footballers and playing them alongside our experienced pros like Gerrard and Garragher.
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Postby Penguins » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:21 pm

We'll just have to wait until summer and persuade Real to come come in and all is solved....
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Postby crazyhorse » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:54 pm

bigmick wrote:I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up in light of our obvious demise, so I thought I'd throw it into the mix.

I don't think there's much doubt to anyone who looks at our current situation without desperately trying to prove they were right all along, or how loyal and "real" they are, that the current manager is a busted flush. He is dead in the water in terms of successfully managing the football club, and although many will call the players a "disgrace" it is clear they have decided not to play for him anymore. Once that happens, it is only time which is a variable when it comes to a manager leaving. Now I say this fully aware that my first thread in a couple of months will stir up some controversy. There'll be those who say they "still believe" (though I'm not sure what in), they'll say "it's the owners" (innit), "fecking Gerrard/Parry/the refs/Moores" etc etc etc etc and delete as appropriate, but they always say that and I long since stopped taking any of them seriously to be totally honest.  There'll be those who's line of reasoning doesn't bother with any of that, they'll just call me a c... instead as it's quicker and a card free way of getting their point accross.

I'm going to disregard all of that though, I'm going to make the assumption that the manager will be gone at the end of the season (almost certainly to Madrid) simply because it suits him and us down to a tee. It'll save us having to pay an exorbitant severence fee for the ridiculous contract he was awarded, it'll save us having to stump up God knows how much for the legions of his backroom buddies, and it'll mean we can get a manager in who at least has a shot at getting the players to play to somewhere near their potential. It may well be that winning the league anytime soon is impossible anyway, but surely the club can employ someone who can make a better fist of things than the current manager. It suits Rafa this Madrid thing too, because he'll have a chance to rebuild his shattered reputation. Quite what madrid will make of him remains to be seen, but that's for them to worry about, we owe them a dodgy deal or two anyway.

So the question is, do we wait till the end of the season or do we come to an arrangement beforehand and go with Dalglish as caretaker manager? Do people think we would be likely to get more points before the end of the season with Dalglish as manager or less? Is it just possible that a surge of belief which Dalglish would bring could be enough to re-ignite our push for Champions League football next season?


Like I say, he's surely gone anyway so do we wait or do we do the deed now?

Nic post.

I agree. Rafa as manager of the football club for me has "shot it" to use an old phrase.

The balance is precarious... if we sack Benitez now it will cost in paying up his contract but it is likely that we will not qualify for the CL with him at the helm and will lose just as much if not more from not being in the competition next year.

However if we bite the bullet and sack him now we run the risk of not qualifying and losing the money. On balance therefore the obvious conclusion is that it is probably (in the most warped sense of the word) in the best interests of the club to keep hold of him until the end of the season in the hope that Madrid will take him...

However... if we continue to nose dive I cannot see Madrid or any other of the big clubs in Europe wanting him, with the exception of Valencia. So just keeping him is a gamble in that we will get rid of him on the cheap so we will end up having to sack him anyway without having the last half of this season to push for the CL.

Therefore I would say on balance that it is better to bite the bullet and get shut now. Which leaves the question of who would take over...... I would go for a quick short term appointment to see us through, someone who would have an instant impact and motivate and immediately bring back the feel good factor to the team.

Two names spring to mind. Both legends. Both have long deep emotional ties with our club. Kenny Dalglish and Kevin Keegan.

Dont laugh when i say Keegan. He has had his failures as a manager (as has Kenny) but he does have a track record as a fantastic motivater and man manger. I would love to see him involved in the club again, and personally i would see him and Kenny as something of a dream team who would capture the imagination of the fans and the players. To qualify for the Cl this season we need to win matches. I feel the license Keegan would give to Torres and Gerrard as well as the other squad members would see us playing the way that our club has made itself famous playing like again.

Just a thought!! I am now ready to be shot down in flames!!!!



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Postby Sir Roger » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:45 pm

bigmick wrote:I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up in light of our obvious demise, so I thought I'd throw it into the mix.

I don't think there's much doubt to anyone who looks at our current situation without desperately trying to prove they were right all along, or how loyal and "real" they are, that the current manager is a busted flush. He is dead in the water in terms of successfully managing the football club, and although many will call the players a "disgrace" it is clear they have decided not to play for him anymore. Once that happens, it is only time which is a variable when it comes to a manager leaving. Now I say this fully aware that my first thread in a couple of months will stir up some controversy. There'll be those who say they "still believe" (though I'm not sure what in), they'll say "it's the owners" (innit), "fecking Gerrard/Parry/the refs/Moores" etc etc etc etc and delete as appropriate, but they always say that and I long since stopped taking any of them seriously to be totally honest.  There'll be those who's line of reasoning doesn't bother with any of that, they'll just call me a c... instead as it's quicker and a card free way of getting their point accross.

I'm going to disregard all of that though, I'm going to make the assumption that the manager will be gone at the end of the season (almost certainly to Madrid) simply because it suits him and us down to a tee. It'll save us having to pay an exorbitant severence fee for the ridiculous contract he was awarded, it'll save us having to stump up God knows how much for the legions of his backroom buddies, and it'll mean we can get a manager in who at least has a shot at getting the players to play to somewhere near their potential. It may well be that winning the league anytime soon is impossible anyway, but surely the club can employ someone who can make a better fist of things than the current manager. It suits Rafa this Madrid thing too, because he'll have a chance to rebuild his shattered reputation. Quite what madrid will make of him remains to be seen, but that's for them to worry about, we owe them a dodgy deal or two anyway.

So the question is, do we wait till the end of the season or do we come to an arrangement beforehand and go with Dalglish as caretaker manager? Do people think we would be likely to get more points before the end of the season with Dalglish as manager or less? Is it just possible that a surge of belief which Dalglish would bring could be enough to re-ignite our push for Champions League football next season?


Like I say, he's surely gone anyway so do we wait or do we do the deed now?

Two things
Firstly I think youre wrong in saying Rafa has a "shattered reputation"
He is still in the top six with three of the best players in Europe (two of them he signed) in his team. Yes the team has been underachieving but he has had injuries to his best players, bad and sometimes unbelievably bad luck and has had no money to spend due to two of the most hated owners in the history of football.
In other words its not his fault.
Secondly Dalglish would not take over unless Rafa left or (against all odds) was sacked
We are stuck with him til the end of the season and probably beyond.
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Postby NANNY RED » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:58 pm

my reply in answer to the thread , NO
HE WHO BETRAYS WILL ALWAYS WALK ALONE
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Postby NANNY RED » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:58 am

Ill tell you what this is a good assesment by Rory here . taken the words out of me mouth practicaly :laugh:

Sacking Rafael Benitez is just fiddling while Liverpool burn

By Rory Smith Football Last updated: March 12th, 2010



As Liverpool’s team plane touched down in Lille on Wednesday night, a dozen or so BlackBerries buzzed in the cheap seats. Email after email came through from Liverpool supporters with the foresight to copy journalists in on a missive directed at the Government-owned Royal Bank of Scotland, which decides in July whether to offer the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, a refinancing deal on Liverpool’s £237 million debt. A little over 36 hours later, The Daily Telegraph’s received tally stands at about 150 or so.

Kudos, of course, to the supporters who mobilised the power of an internet forum and Facebook to launch an organic campaign, and kudos to those who took the time to take part. But look at that figure. 150 emails. Of all the thousands who scour the internet forums and all the millions of Liverpool fans around the world. 150 emails. 150 people with five minutes to spare for the club they love.

Compare and contrast that to the ever-growing numbers – boosted after defeat in Lille, as the emails kept trickling through – adamant that Rafael Benitez must be sacked, that his increasingly likely failure to lead Liverpool back into the Champions League is a capital offence, that a new manager – Jose Mourinho, Fabio Capello, whoever – is the answer to their problems and prayers. Such thinking is deluded, and dangerous. The vast majority of Liverpool’s supporters are concerned with fiddling while their club burns.

There is a danger, with Liverpool, that suggesting there are greater problems than the Spaniard’s cautious tactics is seen as absolution of his sins. This, though, is not an apologia for Benitez. He, and his team, have had a poor season. They have lost 15 times. That is not good enough. Many of his players, his buys, are not good enough, and those that are good enough – Pepe Reina aside – are not playing well enough. That is, in part, his responsibility, and his failing.

Benitez, like all managers, will find his position reviewed at the end of the season. If Liverpool, for the first time in his spell at Anfield, are not in the Champions League, he may find his tenure drawn to a close. Posterity will prove, though, that the most significant denouement to their campaign is not whether the axe falls on Benitez or not, but who is wielding it.

If it is still Hicks and Gillett, removing Benitez will do little. His successor will find himself weighed down by the albatross of that debt, forced to sell to buy, handed just a percentage of what he raises, unable to overhaul a squad at the limit of its ability and patience, hamstrung by owners with neither the funds nor the inclination to deliver on Hicks’s promise of a “big” summer in the transfer market. True, he may play better football, or get a better press by virtue of being British, but only a miracle-worker could satisfy the Kop’s demands in such circumstances.

Under Hicks and Gillett, without outside investment, without some sort of change in the boardroom, without the funds to build a new stadium and the impetus to compete, Liverpool will slide into mediocrity, whether Benitez, Rinus Michels or Tele Santana is manager.

It may be Liverpool’s pursuit of fourth place which generates the headlines and the fury, which is seen as crucial to the club’s future, but Liverpool could, just, absorb the blow of missing out on the Champions League both in terms of finances and prestige. Missing out on investment, or on new owners? Sadly not. The battle that must be won, that they cannot afford to lose, is off the pitch. And only 150 people see it.


NICE ONE RORY LAD .
HE WHO BETRAYS WILL ALWAYS WALK ALONE
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Postby Scottbot » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:20 am

bigmick wrote:So the question is, do we wait till the end of the season or do we come to an arrangement beforehand and go with Dalglish as caretaker manager? Do people think we would be likely to get more points before the end of the season with Dalglish as manager or less? Is it just possible that a surge of belief which Dalglish would bring could be enough to re-ignite our push for Champions League football next season?


Like I say, he's surely gone anyway so do we wait or do we do the deed now?

I don't think this idea has been thrown into the mix simply because of the money issue surrounding Rafa's contract Mick. If we're as skint as the speculation suggests then we're probably relying on a club like Madrid coming in and asking permission to speak to Rafa and (I would hope) on this occasion we will allow them to do so. the caretaker manager route isn't going to happen in my opinion because:

1/ The club would have to pay Rafa now to move him on.

2/ I don't believe Madrid would be willing to do a deal for Rafa whilst Pellagini is still in the thick of a Spanish title race with Barcelona. They would not undermine that surely?
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