Is it time for the unthinkable? - Caretaker manager time?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Sabre » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:28 pm

except those who are gutted that they weren't able to claim they were right all along excited


Hold on, I take it that there's another group who are able to claim they were right all along?  :laugh:

Well, everybody knows what's important to be gutted about, the situation of the club football and financial wise. If there are people who are gutted for being right or being wrong, then they simply have another view of football and life.

Not mine certainly.
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Postby fivecups » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:30 pm

Sabre wrote:
except those who are gutted that they weren't able to claim they were right all along excited


Hold on, I take it that there's another group who are able to claim they were right all along?  :laugh:

Well, everybody knows what's important to be gutted about, the situation of the club football and financial wise. If there are people who are gutted for being right or being wrong, then they simply have another view of football and life.

Not mine certainly.

I don't really understand that either Sabre?
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Postby tubby » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:34 pm

bigmick wrote:I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up in light of our obvious demise, so I thought I'd throw it into the mix.

I don't think there's much doubt to anyone who looks at our current situation without desperately trying to prove they were right all along, or how loyal and "real" they are, that the current manager is a busted flush. He is dead in the water in terms of successfully managing the football club, and although many will call the players a "disgrace" it is clear they have decided not to play for him anymore. Once that happens, it is only time which is a variable when it comes to a manager leaving. Now I say this fully aware that my first thread in a couple of months will stir up some controversy. There'll be those who say they "still believe" (though I'm not sure what in), they'll say "it's the owners" (innit), "fecking Gerrard/Parry/the refs/Moores" etc etc etc etc and delete as appropriate, but they always say that and I long since stopped taking any of them seriously to be totally honest.  There'll be those who's line of reasoning doesn't bother with any of that, they'll just call me a c... instead as it's quicker and a card free way of getting their point accross.

I'm going to disregard all of that though, I'm going to make the assumption that the manager will be gone at the end of the season (almost certainly to Madrid) simply because it suits him and us down to a tee. It'll save us having to pay an exorbitant severence fee for the ridiculous contract he was awarded, it'll save us having to stump up God knows how much for the legions of his backroom buddies, and it'll mean we can get a manager in who at least has a shot at getting the players to play to somewhere near their potential. It may well be that winning the league anytime soon is impossible anyway, but surely the club can employ someone who can make a better fist of things than the current manager. It suits Rafa this Madrid thing too, because he'll have a chance to rebuild his shattered reputation. Quite what madrid will make of him remains to be seen, but that's for them to worry about, we owe them a dodgy deal or two anyway.

So the question is, do we wait till the end of the season or do we come to an arrangement beforehand and go with Dalglish as caretaker manager? Do people think we would be likely to get more points before the end of the season with Dalglish as manager or less? Is it just possible that a surge of belief which Dalglish would bring could be enough to re-ignite our push for Champions League football next season?


Like I say, he's surely gone anyway so do we wait or do we do the deed now?

Would probably do more harm than good to be honest Mick. And anyway there are bigger worries at the club right now such as the financial situation and our subcsequent plans for the future.
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Postby Ciggy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:38 pm

NANNY RED wrote:As i said its not about being proved right

Exactly its not a feckin game of I told you so, I was right all along and you's where wrong, its about whats best for Liverpool football club not peoples opinions on a forum.
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Postby fivecups » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:47 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Ill tell you what this is a good assesment by Rory here . taken the words out of me mouth practicaly :laugh:

Sacking Rafael Benitez is just fiddling while Liverpool burn

By Rory Smith Football Last updated: March 12th, 2010



As Liverpool’s team plane touched down in Lille on Wednesday night, a dozen or so BlackBerries buzzed in the cheap seats. Email after email came through from Liverpool supporters with the foresight to copy journalists in on a missive directed at the Government-owned Royal Bank of Scotland, which decides in July whether to offer the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, a refinancing deal on Liverpool’s £237 million debt. A little over 36 hours later, The Daily Telegraph’s received tally stands at about 150 or so.

Kudos, of course, to the supporters who mobilised the power of an internet forum and Facebook to launch an organic campaign, and kudos to those who took the time to take part. But look at that figure. 150 emails. Of all the thousands who scour the internet forums and all the millions of Liverpool fans around the world. 150 emails. 150 people with five minutes to spare for the club they love.

Compare and contrast that to the ever-growing numbers – boosted after defeat in Lille, as the emails kept trickling through – adamant that Rafael Benitez must be sacked, that his increasingly likely failure to lead Liverpool back into the Champions League is a capital offence, that a new manager – Jose Mourinho, Fabio Capello, whoever – is the answer to their problems and prayers. Such thinking is deluded, and dangerous. The vast majority of Liverpool’s supporters are concerned with fiddling while their club burns.

There is a danger, with Liverpool, that suggesting there are greater problems than the Spaniard’s cautious tactics is seen as absolution of his sins. This, though, is not an apologia for Benitez. He, and his team, have had a poor season. They have lost 15 times. That is not good enough. Many of his players, his buys, are not good enough, and those that are good enough – Pepe Reina aside – are not playing well enough. That is, in part, his responsibility, and his failing.

Benitez, like all managers, will find his position reviewed at the end of the season. If Liverpool, for the first time in his spell at Anfield, are not in the Champions League, he may find his tenure drawn to a close. Posterity will prove, though, that the most significant denouement to their campaign is not whether the axe falls on Benitez or not, but who is wielding it.

If it is still Hicks and Gillett, removing Benitez will do little. His successor will find himself weighed down by the albatross of that debt, forced to sell to buy, handed just a percentage of what he raises, unable to overhaul a squad at the limit of its ability and patience, hamstrung by owners with neither the funds nor the inclination to deliver on Hicks’s promise of a “big” summer in the transfer market. True, he may play better football, or get a better press by virtue of being British, but only a miracle-worker could satisfy the Kop’s demands in such circumstances.

Under Hicks and Gillett, without outside investment, without some sort of change in the boardroom, without the funds to build a new stadium and the impetus to compete, Liverpool will slide into mediocrity, whether Benitez, Rinus Michels or Tele Santana is manager.

It may be Liverpool’s pursuit of fourth place which generates the headlines and the fury, which is seen as crucial to the club’s future, but Liverpool could, just, absorb the blow of missing out on the Champions League both in terms of finances and prestige. Missing out on investment, or on new owners? Sadly not. The battle that must be won, that they cannot afford to lose, is off the pitch. And only 150 people see it.


NICE ONE RORY LAD .

Great article that Nan. The management issue is a short-term one, the financial and ownership issues threaten to impact the club for many years to come.
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Postby tubby » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:50 pm

Thats what I said. :angry: :D
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Postby kazza » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:47 pm

Ciggy wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:As i said its not about being proved right

Exactly its not a feckin game of I told you so, I was right all along and you's where wrong, its about whats best for Liverpool football club not peoples opinions on a forum.

For some people it is about "I was right, you were wrong"  and their posts clearly show it (over and over again) but for most and all supporters it is sad to see the team like this. If I am wrong about whether Rafa is the right man for the job, at least I am positive and supporting the team. I'd rather be that guy than someone that secretly wishes we would lose so he can say "see I was right all along".

Admittedly we are as bad as we have been, but I still think Rafa is one of the best managers in the world and should be manager next year, but were he to leave, he will be replaced by mediocrity because anyone good will not want to come into this mess. Caretaker manager? Fecking ridiculous idea!
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Postby tubby » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:08 pm

kazza wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:As i said its not about being proved right

Exactly its not a feckin game of I told you so, I was right all along and you's where wrong, its about whats best for Liverpool football club not peoples opinions on a forum.

For some people it is about "I was right, you were wrong"  and their posts clearly show it (over and over again) but for most and all supporters it is sad to see the team like this. If I am wrong about whether Rafa is the right man for the job, at least I am positive and supporting the team. I'd rather be that guy than someone that secretly wishes we would lose so he can say "see I was right all along".

Admittedly we are as bad as we have been, but I still think Rafa is one of the best managers in the world and should be manager next year, but were he to leave, he will be replaced by mediocrity because anyone good will not want to come into this mess. Caretaker manager? Fecking ridiculous idea!

You only have to look at the teams he is linked with. Real, Juventus... We are lucky he has stuck around this far tbh. He cares about the club and the fans and he puts up with a lot. Even Shankly had his own faults, he is only human.
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Postby kazza » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:28 pm

bavlondon wrote:You only have to look at the teams he is linked with. Real, Juventus... We are lucky he has stuck around this far tbh. He cares about the club and the fans and he puts up with a lot. Even Shankly had his own faults, he is only human.

He is a workaholic, lives and breaths football. He is always at the club trying to improve it. He loves the club. He wants to be responsible for every part of the club. He is tactically superb. These are the qualities of great managers and if we lose him, he will go on to other top teams and do well. If there is a lack of effort or extreme self-centered ness, he should probably go, but there isn't and he should not.

Blaming solely the manager for this season and thinking that were he to leave everything will improve from then on is so simplistic that it borders idiotic.
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Postby Ben Patrick » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:48 pm

kazza wrote:
bavlondon wrote:You only have to look at the teams he is linked with. Real, Juventus... We are lucky he has stuck around this far tbh. He cares about the club and the fans and he puts up with a lot. Even Shankly had his own faults, he is only human.

He is a workaholic, lives and breaths football. He is always at the club trying to improve it. He loves the club. He wants to be responsible for every part of the club. He is tactically superb. These are the qualities of great managers and if we lose him, he will go on to other top teams and do well. If there is a lack of effort or extreme self-centered ness, he should probably go, but there isn't and he should not.

Blaming solely the manager for this season and thinking that were he to leave everything will improve from then on is so simplistic that it borders idiotic.

if he lives and breathes football then why is he failing so miserably this season ?
If he is tactically so great why has he persisted with the same formation and tactics all season when they are clearly not working ?

I agree that if and when he goes he will probably do a decent job elsewhere as he is a good organiser.
He will probably make his new team difficult to beat and work hard and try and control games.

But he is not doing that anymore for us.
This season has been nothing short of a disgrace and while i agree he is not solely to blame, he is the main reason.

How anyone thinks that things will miraculously be better next season without a change to me is FAR more idiotic.
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:02 pm

I just cant how Rafa can turn the situation around, it seems quite obvious that the players are not playing for him anymore, the body language on the pitch says it all. Probably best for all concerned that he leaves the club at the end of the season because the rut where in seems unrepairable IMO
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Postby roberto green » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:50 pm

I have always backed him (Rafa) until now.Something clearly is wrong and it's time for a new man.Rafa has gone stale, I think he has also took on to much with wanting to control youth team set ups to transfer dealings coming from him.I still think he will go on to prove to be a  successful manager elsewhere but has simply ran his course at our club and a lot of it is due to him being given to much control by the club and him wanting a team of ever ready bunnies running around the pitch disciplined to every instruction he has detailed them to do.

There is going to be a major bombshell sooner or later it's just a matter of time
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Postby Sabre » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:02 am

fivecups wrote:
Sabre wrote:
except those who are gutted that they weren't able to claim they were right all along excited


Hold on, I take it that there's another group who are able to claim they were right all along?  :laugh:

Well, everybody knows what's important to be gutted about, the situation of the club football and financial wise. If there are people who are gutted for being right or being wrong, then they simply have another view of football and life.

Not mine certainly.

I don't really understand that either Sabre?

What, my post?

You see, to state how little you trust the manager, there's no need to say the ones who still trust him have low aspirations or weren't able to say they were right, as if that was important at all.

But he has edited it and left the opinion he has about a future with Rafa here, and I don't have problems with opinions I disagree, so that's nice.

As for the topic in question, I think it's pointless to try and convince people. People do not change opinions and trusts for posts they read, but with defeats and victories of the team. At some point people lose faith in the manager, we have seen that a lot, and it's normal when results aren't good.

I still trust Rafa, and I think if he stays it won't be disasterous, I think we can see managers like Wenger that yesteryear they received stick and had problems, and this year they're more appreciated. An awful season may happen everywhere, and if last summer I thought the club had progressed (not as fast as we'd like though), I can't say now that Rafa's spell has been a disaster for the club.

Saying that, is not an obstacle to admit that Rafa has made some serious mistakes in the last year, and others before. And I also think he's not irreplaceable and there are managers that could do well in Liverpool.

Rafa will stay if the players still trust him. If the players do not trust him, little will matter what I post here or what you post, he will go. Same will happen if Rafa loses the support of Anfield. He will go.

And if he goes, I'll support the next manager aswell, needless to say.
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:23 am

SIDE ISSUE , NOT IMPORTANT ANYMORE . TO LATE FOR RAFA NOW . Use your passion and love for the club on more imortant issues like it's feckin future . Not on wether we need a fecking caretaker manager or not . THe season's over ,were not going to be relagated ,fight the feckin fight .
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Postby Sabre » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:27 am

Igor Zidane wrote:SIDE ISSUE , NOT IMPORTANT ANYMORE . TO LATE FOR RAFA NOW . Use your passion and love for the club on more imortant issues like it's feckin future . Not on wether we need a fecking caretaker manager or not . THe season's over ,were not going to be relagated ,fight the feckin fight .

I have info from SOS and threads of newkit about how important is that fight you talk about, and I agree it's important, but the season is not over mate.

As long as 11 men in a red shirt try to get that 4th place, beat the french and advance to the next round, the fans have to support them.

Being 4th is very important for the club aswell and it's not out of reach, even if we did a disasterous season. The red men can't give up that fight now, they have to focus on doing a decent end of season, regardless the protests of the supporters, and regardless the supporters are right.
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