Benitez lands £6m pennant

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby flipmode » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:54 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Duff is a much better player than Pennant and has a good heard on his shoulders, cheaper too. Gutted we missed out on him again.

Pennant is okay with a bad attitude. HImself and Bellamy in the same room should be fun :D

Bad business, and speculation about Kuyt worries me too.

Where will Stevie G play if pennant is on the right? Alonso can't be dropped so will Sissoko make way?

Duff was a better player than Pennant, but has totally stagnated at Chelsea. Cheaper only cus he went to Newcastle, rest assured we would have had to pay twice that.

What Kuyt speculation ?

Are you serious about where will the best midfielder in Europe fits into our team ?

Duff is left sided for one, Speedy will do a fine job there im sure.  I like Pennant good player needs a little disapline but i trust what Benitez wants 100% and if that did include Kuyt i will be behind him also.
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Postby LFC #1 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:56 pm

Pennant at £6m is no more of a risk (perhaps less of one) than bringing in Alves at £12m.

Alves may have a better head on his shoulders (and from what I've seen of him he probably has a little more potential than Pennant), but £12m is ridiculous money for a player who's had a couple of good seasons at Sevilla. For that sort of money you want to be sure that he is going to do the business, and we've made too many expensive mistakes recently to take such a risk - Diouf, Cisse, Cheyrou and Diao.

Pennant should adapt to Liverpool pretty quickly, there are plenty of role models for him like Gerrard and Carragher to learn from, and he is one of the most talented young midfielders in England at the moment, a future England international if he keeps his feet on the ground.He looked very good in a very average Birmingham side last season, and surely he can only get better when playing with the likes of Gerrard, Garcia, Alonso etc.

If Sevilla were only asking £8m then it would be a whole new debate, but at £6m I think Pennant is definitely worth the gamble. We're looking at proven premiership quality and a potential England international, that's at least the going rate these days. Also you have to consider that Birmingham paid £3m and he had a good season, so you’d expect his price to raise somewhat. I believe that Arsenal will receive something like 25% of the fee, which is £1.5m of £6m.

If Birmingham had stayed up we'd probably be looking at more like £8-10m, which would be overpriced, but £6m is about right IMO.
Last edited by LFC #1 on Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:32 pm

LFC #1 wrote:Pennant at £6m is no more of a risk (perhaps less of one) than bringing in Alves at £12m.

Alves may have a better head on his shoulders (and from what I've seen of him he probably has a little more potential than Pennant), but £12m is ridiculous money for a player who's had a couple of good seasons at Sevilla. For that sort of money you want to be sure that he is going to do the business, and we've made too many expensive mistakes recently to take such a risk - Diouf, Cisse, Cheyrou and Diao.

Pennant should adapt to Liverpool pretty quickly, there are plenty of role models for him like Gerrard and Carragher to learn from, and he is one of the most talented young midfielders in England at the moment, a future England international if he keeps his feet on the ground.He looked very good in a very average Birmingham side last season, and surely he can only get better when playing with the likes of Gerrard, Garcia, Alonso etc.

If Sevilla were only asking £8m then it would be a whole new debate, but at £6m I think Pennant is definitely worth the gamble. We're looking at proven premiership quality and a potential England international, that's at least the going rate these days. Also you have to consider that Birmingham paid £3m and he had a good season, so you’d expect his price to raise somewhat. I believe that Arsenal will receive something like 25% of the fee, which is £1.5m of £6m.

If Birmingham had stayed up we'd probably be looking at more like £8-10m, which would be overpriced, but £6m is about right IMO.

That is another key thing to consider in this transfer. There is no way that any team would sell a player who has improved and/or had a good season 12 months after signing him without making a profit. Arsenal got £3m for Pennant, so for Birmingham to make a profit, it would need to be at least £4,000,001 and that would mean that they would make £1 profit!!

On a deal for £6m, Arsenal will bet £1.5m and Birmingham will make a profit of £1.5m (in addition to the £3m they recoup against the initial outlay 12 months ago).

Therefore the deal MUST be for over £6m.
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Postby red37 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:46 pm

Bad Bob wrote:For those moaning about the price from a relegated team, lest we forget we paid Southampton 7mill for Crouchy last summer!  Now, from a pure footballing perspective (off-field problems aside) who would you rather pay that kind of dosh for, Crouch or Pennant?  For me it's Pennant every day and that's not a knock on Crouch at all.  My point is that Rafa has been able to work wonders with Crouch--a lad with, let's be honest, solid but not spectacular footballing talents (as Big Mick has said, he does somethings very well and other things poorly).  If Crouchy's proven to be worth 7 million (and most seemed to agree with that based on St. Mike's thread a while back) than surely Pennant's worth spending around 6 million on? 

In terms of footballing talent and raw athleticism Pennant has a lot more to offer.  His off-field antics do give one pause but I'm prepared to chalk it up to youthful indiscretions and will have faith that Rafa, the lads and a last shot at the big time will put him right.  I'm made up with this signing and think that 6 mill is a very good piece of business for a proven Premiership player who can fill our most consistent problem position.  Now, let's get in another striker!

well said.

we are starting to form a very good squad with, importantly many options/combinations within it. "horses for courses" i suppose. but ultimately this policy will prevail, of that im certain.
there is a nice mix of youth/experience and english/continental style all over the place. and this can only bode well for the foreseeable future. fwiw id have preferred alves over pennant, due to his attacking and defensive qualities...but, like you said, there must be maximum use made of that which we do have. again, ive no doubts we are on the correct path.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:51 pm

Big Niall wrote:Duff is a much better player than Pennant and has a good heard on his shoulders, cheaper too. Gutted we missed out on him again.

Pennant is okay with a bad attitude. HImself and Bellamy in the same room should be fun :D

Bad business, and speculation about Kuyt worries me too.

Where will Stevie G play if pennant is on the right? Alonso can't be dropped so will Sissoko make way?

Where would Stevie of played had we signed Duff ?
Pennant is a better bet now than Duff because he plays in the position were we had no cover, therefore giving us options to use Gerrard wherever we want.
He is also less injury prone and should be able to play the majority of games if needed, Duffs injuries have been horrendous and the Newcastle physio will really be earning his money with Owen Dyer and now Duff, they might as well re-sign Woodgate  :D
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Postby der_kaiser » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:04 pm

forget about duff. chelsea were never going to sell him to us, united, arsenal or spurs. you even heard the newcastle chairman saying how much he wanted to thank the staff at chelsea. there was something fishy about that transfer, watch and see Wright-Philips could be going the same way very soon!

back to the topic at hand JP supported Liverpool as a kid so i'm sure he'll pull into line. i think £7m is a little expensive for him but that's football these days.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:15 pm

A few years ago I was fan of Pennant, when he was sitting in the reserves at Arsenal I said he would be a good signing for Liverpool, we have needed a right winger for a while and he would have been worth it at a low price round 3 Mil. The boy clearly had some potential but that had never been tested playing regularly in the Premiership.

Now I have had the chance to watch him regularly at Leeds and Birmingham I can see that he is a decent player but is limited. He clearly has pace, decent technique, a decent passer. But he is very one footed, is limited to going on the outside, is predictable and offers very little goal threat. Any reasonably good full back could minimalism his threat, and at the higher level he will struggle to be as effective, when either faced with teams sitting deep or teams playing high lines but with high quality intelligent defenders. For me he is a big fish in a small pond.

Saying that, he does give us options that we so badly need. I think he can “do a job” for us, but I cant see him securing a long term first team place at Liverpool unless he can make massive improvement in his game, but I doubt he will be able to because he is now 23 and his weaknesses come from his natural game more than anything else. A good player to have in the squad, and the fact that we have no other natural right sided midfielder in the first team squad means he will get plenty of games, especially since Rafa likes to rotate.

In my opinion the prices of 6-8 Million that being talked about are too high, his real value is more between 3-5 Mil, only the fact that Arsenal will take 25% of the fee is driving the price up.

In terms of him as a person, I don’t think he is the sort to cause trouble on the field or in the dressing room, on the pitch he is as committed and driven as most. But I watched that documentary on football agents and Pennant featured heavily, he seemed like a right d1ckhead, a real immature brat, maybe it was because he was out on loan at Leeds at the time and lacked focus in his professional career, but one thing is for sure, he is going to have to grow up quickly if he wants to survive at Liverpool, he seems to have an unhealthy social life and no self discipline.

In conclusion, it is a bit of sad situation that Rafa has had to go to his back up plan of a cheaper option who is nowhere near the finished article and is likely never to be, but that’s the situation we have found ourselves in. He is a decent player who will do O.K for us, but I expect us to buy a new right sided midfielder in the next 2 years to come in to the first team, or maybe even the young and talented Paul Anderson will eventually displace him over the next couple of years.
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Postby aCe' » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:20 pm

He's 23 and english ! 6mill is a good price tag for a player with his abilities.... a couple of good years with liverpool and his price could be way up there ..  not many good right midfielders in the business nowadays ! he has all it takes to hit it big in liverpool ! Just hope we sign a good striker now ! GET TREZEGUET !
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Postby bigmick » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:27 pm

It's strange that the majority of people who claim Pennant is overpriced at 6 million would advocate paying 12 million and inflated wages for Alves. The simple fact is that for 6 million quid these days you don't get much when buying relatively young, proven Premiership players who are not running out of contract.
St Mike has given a better perspective than most when he compared 6 million for Pennant to the quoted 20 million for Carrick. Now Carrick is a nice footballer but sheesh 20 million? What then is our captain worth I dread to think?
Duff I think is an unfair comparison given the fact he had only a year on his contract remaining. Pennant is good player, and in a good side potentially a very good one. The lad just needs a chance to show it.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:40 pm

First of all, I don’t think that the comparison to Duff is needed, he is a left sided midfielder who went from Chelsea (our league rivals) to Newcastle in different circumstances.

Secondly, Pennant at 6 Mil obviously makes more sense to Rafa than Alves at 12 Mil, and I would generally back that up.

I think this signing is more about making a big improvement to the squad rather than making a massive difference to the first 11, and I must confess that leaves me a little disappointed, but its not a bad situation, guaranteed incremental improvement is better than “high risk = high payoff/high consequences” in the current environment.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:05 pm

Our best 11, including Pennant in the squad is:

                        Reina

Finnan    Carragher    Hyypia    Aurelio/Riise

Gerrard    Sissoko      Alonso     Kewell/Gonzalez

              Crouch      Bellamy/Fowler
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:10 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:Our best 11, including Pennant in the squad is:

                        Reina

Finnan    Carragher    Hyypia    Aurelio/Riise

Gerrard    Sissoko      Alonso     Kewell/Gonzalez

              Crouch      Bellamy/Fowler

Dont start all that, Millita Rusher is enough lad.
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Postby aCe' » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:11 pm

Good one...i'd say...
                             Reina

Finnan      Carragher      Hyypia      Riise

                Sissoko    XabiAlonso

Gerrard                                    Gonzales

                        LuisGarcia
                   Crouch(Trezeguet) :D
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:14 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:Our best 11, including Pennant in the squad is:

                        Reina

Finnan    Carragher    Hyypia    Aurelio/Riise

Gerrard    Sissoko      Alonso     Kewell/Gonzalez

              Crouch      Bellamy/Fowler

Dont start all that, Millita Rusher is enough lad.

Just pointing out that Pennant doesnt make a big improvement to the starting 11.
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Postby adamnbarrett » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:02 pm

The deal has now been confirmed on SSN.

WE FINALLY HAVE A RIGHT WINGER!!!!!!
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