Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:20 pm

Yossi_Benaloon wrote:or were England and Argentina very poor. Individually, I would not say the Germans are the best, but Joachim Low has got them so well organised and tactically he really embarassed Capello and Maradona. Can Germany go all the way and ensure Philip Lahm lifts the World Cup trophy - or will they come unstuck against the Dutch in the semi-final ?

Both England and Argentina contributed to their own heavy defeats with poor defending

by **brentd4** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:25 pm

are they that good?......... yes.............

pretty solid throughout scoring loads of goals and meeting a very average spain team to date. i agree if spain wake up it cud be different but spain have yet to play wel and germany have a running start on them so i can c 2-1 germany ( klose, schweinsteger - villa)

by **Owzat** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:06 pm

Were they any good? Not really, played a team that could defend and lost

by **stmichael** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:08 pm

Owzat wrote:Were they any good? Not really, played a team that could defend and lost

to be honest i think they overachieved. given the age of the squad they won't peak for another 2-3 years. i'd expect them to seriously challenge for the 2014 world cup.

in all fairness, spain are far superior to them at this current moment in time.

by **andy_g** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:56 pm

we're seeing an attitude from people here that just about sums up the modern approach to football. germany were great while they were beating people and now they are a bit rubbish because they lost. the truth is, as usual, somewhere inbetween. germany are a very good team that plays some very good football, and so is spain. in a knock out tournament one of those teams will have to lose if they play each other, it doesn't mean that the losing team is suddenly rubbish though.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:25 pm

Germany were a superb counter attack team and even thou they lost last night they still had chances to win it .

by **Greavesie** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:25 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Spain will lose if they keep playing with Torres.

If Spain get to the final I put money on Torres scoring the winner.

totally agree, which is why I've bet on it as well

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:24 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Germany were a superb counter attack team and even thou they lost last night they still had chances to win it .

I agree with the first part, about being a superb counter attacking team.
I disagree that they really had chances to win it.
I think Spain were comfortably the better side last night and controlled the game totally.
I thought to be honest the germans looked tired.
I was massively impressed with the germans in the england and argentina games.
They will definately be a force to be reckoned with in the next euros.
Oezil looked fecked last night and they were obviously missing one of their other key performers in muller.
Best team to watch in the tournament the germans were without doubt though.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:01 pm

Yep I'd agree with all of that Ben. Ozil actually looked out on his feet against Argentina to me, and he looked even more ill at ease last night. Muller who has been one of the finds of the tournament for me was also a big loss.

To be fair though, Spain were that good it's stretching the point to think it would have made that much difference. The midfield three were absolutely mesmerising with their pass and move, and just about my only criticism would be they try and walk it into the net too much. The Dutch have their work cut out in the final, and if it was me I'd switch Robben and Kuyt so the little 10M short board specialist can get at Sergio Ramos. They could do a lot worse also than carefully study the videos of how Inter Milan deservedly rolled Barcelona over. These teams can be beaten like any football team, but when they play like that or are allowed to play like that, feck me it isn't easy.

by **andy_g** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:05 pm

i think pinning ramos back, like you say, is one of the keys to getting on top of spain. i've always thought of him as a decent player but nothing that outstanding, but he's been really influential in the spanish team this world cup. he probably can't quite believe it himself how much space he's been given to bomb up and down the right wing.

by **Number 9** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:27 pm

Germany were a breath of fresh air in this tournament.Absolutely great to see them go about their game in such a fearless manner!

There are not many teams that take a lead and go blood and thunder for more goals.They were fantastic against a pathetic England team and world class on the counter against a very good Argie side.I just feel they hit top gear too early and burnt themselves out.

The manager deserves massive credit for bringing young players in and making them believe in themselves.What he has done would never happen in England,he dropped the deadwood,kept some experience and give players a chance on their ability and hunger.
Mueller for example was playing in the German 3rd division only a short time ago.

Sad to see them out cause they deserved a place in the final,Spain were just too clever.Cant help feeling that if the Spain coaching team had not had the privilage of watching how the Germans played against England and Argentina there may have been a different outcome last night!

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:28 pm

I don't think it's bound to work or anything Andy, but clearly you have to do something in order to disturb the dink dink dink pass and move which turns into Chinese water torture to the opposition. The three things you can try and do IMHO are firstly to impose one of your strengths upon one of their weaknesses (Robben on Ramos being just about as good as it gets for Holland, not perfect but possibilities at least). The second thing you must do is try and get in amongst them a bit. For this reason if I was managing Holland I'd play 4-4-1-1 and risk getting outnumbered, but with the obvious rider that I'd have a certain Derek Kuyt supporting van Persie, with the detail that on the frequent occasions that we haven't got the ball Derek has to make a nuisance of himself. Nobody makes a nuisance of himself better than Kuyt, and if you can channel it so he's doing it to the opposition then he can become extremely annoying (to them). The third thing I'd do, and this follows on from the second point, is always leave at least two up top (the second one being Robben). There's no better way of putting doubts in such a teams mind than having players who can hurt them on the break. You have to work hard and have incredible belief as well as a strong team ethic, but as Inter Milan showed last season, it can be done.

by **Number 9** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:31 pm

bigmick wrote:I don't think it's bound to work or anything Andy, but clearly you have to do something in order to disturb the dink dink dink pass and move which turns into Chinese water torture to the opposition. The three things you can try and do IMHO are firstly to impose one of your strengths upon one of their weaknesses (Robben on Ramos being just about as good as it gets for Holland, not perfect but possibilities at least). The second thing you must do is try and get in amongst them a bit. For this reason if I was managing Holland I'd play 4-4-1-1 and risk getting outnumbered, but with the obvious rider that I'd have a certain Derek Kuyt supporting van Persie, with the detail that on the frequent occasions that we haven't got the ball Derek has to make a nuisance of himself. Nobody makes a nuisance of himself better than Kuyt, and if you can channel it so he's doing it to the opposition then he can become extremely annoying (to them). The third thing I'd do, and this follows on from the second point, is always leave at least two up top (the second one being Robben). There's no better way of putting doubts in such a teams mind than having players who can hurt them on the break. You have to work hard and have incredible belief as well as a strong team ethic, but as Inter Milan showed last season, it can be done.

No need for all that....they dominate from MF.....just play the long up and over ball!!

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:32 pm

Well yeah there is that. Just lump it up and get after it

.

by **andy_g** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:23 pm

bigmick wrote:There's no better way of putting doubts in such a teams mind than having players who can hurt them on the break. You have to work hard and have incredible belief as well as a strong team ethic, but as Inter Milan showed last season, it can be done.

i'd say you the rest of your analysis is pretty good, mick... except for this bit. spain would have been watching the german games throughout the world cup and would have known they could be devestating on the counter (although i don't agree with the opinion that they were purely a counter attacking team). i think they could counter as well as and, crucially, with more variety than holland.

spain didn't seem too bothered about it. seeing as most counters come from winning the 'second ball' the spanish footballing philosophy currently seems to be to make sure they never get past the first one.

one thing the germans did well was to really pack players around the spanish forwards as they built their ticky-tacky attacks, knowing that they would have trouble finding that killer final pass they were looking for. in fact they concentrated so much on this part of the game that they eventually seemed to concede to bolton in disguise.

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