Liverpool FC Forum

[Doeboy]

Has he got it right yet?
I believe we are suffering because of basic and fundamental things which other teams seem to think are more important than we do
1. Giving the ball away constantly is the opposite of what the manager wants. Yet Lucas, Gerrard (of late) Henderson and Enrique are all guilty of doing this. How do you stop it, other than dropping the player until he understands that you dont like it.
2. Corners. Do we practice them? It doesnt look like because we are one of the most ineffectual teams when it comes to scoring from corners. Stop Gerrard taking them? Is this the answer?
3. Throw ins. Total waste of time for decades for LFC. Why bother claiming them just to give posession back to the oposition? Much better to let the other team take them so WE gain posession?
4. Free kicks from outside shooting range. Again, Gerrard takes them and pretty much hits and hopes he gets a good delivery, then hopes someone will convert it into a goal. Do we need a rethink instead of doing the same thing over and over with the same result? Should someone else take them?
5. Free kicks from inside shooting range. Baines has proved it can be done. Cant we? Maybe with Suarez coming back this will change?
6. Crossing the ball into the box. If, and its a big if, we get a good cross in the box, we have no one there to head it. We have lost Crouch and Carroll and are shy of tall target men to head the ball in the net. So why bother trying?
7. Get numbers in the box. Nearly every attack we have see us outnumbered by the oppositions players. This means its harder to thread the ball through and we constantly get to the edge of the box, or in a position to put it into the danger area, only to see that we dont have enough players to cause trouble.
8. Not lumping it into the oppositions box to put pressure on when theres five minutes to go in a cup match. I am not contradicting myself when I was saying that crossing it was pointless. Im talking about the knowledge that managers and players have that we will not do this basic action because, no matter how little time we have left, we will not lower ourselves to do something like this. How about getting a "lets throw  the kitchen sink at them" type of mentality. Or doesnt the manager trust that we have the balls to do it? These are just some of the concerns I have that are seen nearly every time we play.
What bothers me is that we dont seem to change things around to give us different options.

Totally agree on all points. I honestly wonder why the basics are like this. It's what costs us. It's like observers see it and those that matter don't see it. In particular the failure to get bodies in the box when attacking, coupled with the lack of a loiterer on the edge of the box has been a problem for years.

A major problem is how one tone we are. We play well in possession against attacking teams, who are maybe not so used to teams getting in their face, but when we play teams who force us to think in extra dimensions, we lack the guile to do anything about it. That encourages the opposition whilst we retreat and have no back up plans. I wish we'd signed Alonso. His class used to dismantle such teams. Moses has impressed me though and gives us a different outlet to what we've had since maybe Patrick Berger.

I've whined about the lack of muscle upfront, and I dare say that's going to hurt us this season. It seems to border on amateurish to overlook such a basic requirement.

My early judgement on BR is that he excels in some areas whilst either having no clue, or too arrogant to deal with others. My suspicion is still that he's more suited to coaching, and leaving the transfers and planning to someone else.

Agree with this. People are quick to dismiss a director of football due to the experience with Comolli (don't think Kenny was ever a fan and who can blame him), but bring the RIGHT man in and it can really pay dividends. Obviously BR would have to buy into it 100% for it to work.

[Stu the Red]

Has he got it right yet?
I believe we are suffering because of basic and fundamental things which other teams seem to think are more important than we do
1. Giving the ball away constantly is the opposite of what the manager wants. Yet Lucas, Gerrard (of late) Henderson and Enrique are all guilty of doing this. How do you stop it, other than dropping the player until he understands that you dont like it.
2. Corners. Do we practice them? It doesnt look like because we are one of the most ineffectual teams when it comes to scoring from corners. Stop Gerrard taking them? Is this the answer?
3. Throw ins. Total waste of time for decades for LFC. Why bother claiming them just to give posession back to the oposition? Much better to let the other team take them so WE gain posession?
4. Free kicks from outside shooting range. Again, Gerrard takes them and pretty much hits and hopes he gets a good delivery, then hopes someone will convert it into a goal. Do we need a rethink instead of doing the same thing over and over with the same result? Should someone else take them?
5. Free kicks from inside shooting range. Baines has proved it can be done. Cant we? Maybe with Suarez coming back this will change?
6. Crossing the ball into the box. If, and its a big if, we get a good cross in the box, we have no one there to head it. We have lost Crouch and Carroll and are shy of tall target men to head the ball in the net. So why bother trying?
7. Get numbers in the box. Nearly every attack we have see us outnumbered by the oppositions players. This means its harder to thread the ball through and we constantly get to the edge of the box, or in a position to put it into the danger area, only to see that we dont have enough players to cause trouble.
8. Not lumping it into the oppositions box to put pressure on when theres five minutes to go in a cup match. I am not contradicting myself when I was saying that crossing it was pointless. Im talking about the knowledge that managers and players have that we will not do this basic action because, no matter how little time we have left, we will not lower ourselves to do something like this. How about getting a "lets throw  the kitchen sink at them" type of mentality. Or doesnt the manager trust that we have the balls to do it? These are just some of the concerns I have that are seen nearly every time we play.
What bothers me is that we dont seem to change things around to give us different options.

1. Possession is 9 tenths of the law as they say. You're correct we're giving it away far to cheaply, but that for me is down to occassionally trying to over play and lacking movement. The players we have lack sufficient quality and it shows at times. Sometime players can give a ball away through not much fault of their own, Gerrard does try to force things sometimes, he's always done it though since an early age. Enrique sometimes gives it away because the person ten yards away from him wants him to launch it, which is just not going to happen. I think Enrique suffers from a massive lack of quality passers and movers in the team more than most due to his style.

2. Doesn't matter who takes the corners with the players we have attacking them. There isn't one player in the side who can attack a ball and head it. Gerrard either whips in a worldy, or a duffer. Gerrard should be in the box or on the edge, we all know that... but maybe if we had players who can attack a ball that wouldn't matter so much.

3. Don't understand your point? Please do elaborate?

4. Completely agree, we don't play enough short balls (also applies to corners).

5. Think you're right, Suarez will take more than not.

6. Agree again, crossing is the most overated way of scoring a goal but in England used to be "the way". Fine if you're a long ball side. We need a re think in the wide area's because we don't have one play, bar Gerrard who actually can cross.

7. Said this for years, unfortunately we lack the quality of players to do this regularly in open play. Its something that causes endless problems for opponents. I hate midfielders who stand still when they should be taking a touch, passing it, then moving beyond the ball.

8. Players naturally become overly conservative when protecting a lead, its upto the manager to organise them in a way they're able to play their usual game when under this pressure/mentality.

9. All in, a good post. B - 

[Stu the Red]

Just another quick point, for you to get numbers into the box you need to be sure your forward players aren't going to lose the ball.

If you've ever played the game at any level you'll know that if you're playing in midfield and you're giving a ball to a forward who keeps losing it, you'd rather stay at home and save your legs than go chasing a ball thats never going to come.

[red till i die!!]

Just another quick point, for you to get numbers into the box you need to be sure your forward players aren't going to lose the ball.

If you've ever played the game at any level you'll know that if you're playing in midfield and you're giving a ball to a forward who keeps losing it, you'd rather stay at home and save your legs than go chasing a ball thats never going to come.

i dont think rodgers wants a lad to hold it up, hence why he hasnt signed any power up front and didnt want carroll.
thats why coutinho is so important for us as all the front men have to do is run and he will pick them out. outside of him we have no one who can produce that kind of service.
another thing is the amount of 50/50's we dont win    we are just as bad at those as we are with corners. 

[Stu the Red]

Just another quick point, for you to get numbers into the box you need to be sure your forward players aren't going to lose the ball.

If you've ever played the game at any level you'll know that if you're playing in midfield and you're giving a ball to a forward who keeps losing it, you'd rather stay at home and save your legs than go chasing a ball thats never going to come.

i dont think rodgers wants a lad to hold it up, hence why he hasnt signed any power up front and didnt want carroll.
thats why coutinho is so important for us as all the front men have to do is run and he will pick them out. outside of him we have no one who can produce that kind of service.
another thing is the amount of 50/50's we dont win    we are just as bad at those as we are with corners. 

I understand that, thats fine. I'm not a fan of "the big man upfront" either unless its used with certain types of midfield player.

What I mean is for example... if your forward has the ball, you don't wanna make that run, if you know he's going down a blind alley or isn't going to release it when he should. Sturridge does this alot. Having Suarez may help him, but at times for me he reacts to situations instead of anticipating them.

As I said in another thread... he only see's "the shot", he doesn't see the easy one two or easy one two three that will either

A: Get him a shot with more time
B: Allow the other person who receives the ball in a one two three to make the decision.

Suarez does see these passes.

Also, Moses for me plain as day isn't the answer. If he can contribute a few goals this season great, if the deal is made permanent then i'll be hugely disappointed.

[red till i die!!]

i got what you meant stu and agree somewhat on sturridge. he is just one of those strikers with the mentality that you work to get him a shot. maybe selfish but he is a striker and most are. he doesnt fit the high work rate either and gives up far too easy when tracking back. lazy and selfish striker  now thats a first.
i think he is a decent player though but needs to be coached better in other areas of his game.
running down blind alleys and not spotting a pass isnt just confined to sturridge, from the wide areas in johnson and enrique to the middle with henderson it happens. by the time we reach an opposition box we are often outnumbered and going back ways with it, the gaps between the players are too big for getting little triangles going with even 2 passes that go forward. its pointless trying to cross it as its at least 70/30 against. the players are so focussed on retaining possession that they will opt for the safe pass every time, unless your sturridge of course 
its either the lack of tactics or the players are struggling to implement them but sometimes it ends up making us look clueless in the final 3rd.

[redno7]

you need to take a step back and chill the fuk out fella. your mumbling sh!te.

How many years now is it this poster is been able to post this sort of posts on a regular basis. The poster adds nothing to anything thread but to insult people.

and whats it to do with you? the post I was responding to was not yours was it?  if you don't like it then put me on ignore.   

...and judging by my joined date (over  there on the left) just under a year. that answer your question?  probably not. you'll no doubt have something really clever to say back... we're all waiting eager for your clever response that will have everyone rolling over in stitches...

[jacdaniel]

7 games and still not a single goal in the 2nd half of any match this season. 

The defence has being very unsettled since the injuries to Toure, Johnson and Agger. 
Lucas and Gerrard in particular both look bad from 45 mins - 60 mins and then look absolute cack for the final half hour. 
injuries and fitness are also affecting our strikers.
we don't look too creative up front and once the midfield collapses 2nd half we can't even get the ball forward. 

A lot of our problems this season seem to relate to injuries and fitness levels.  Not too sure why that is?  Are we too much in training?  Too little?  I really don't know. 
We also seem a bit poor mentally.  Haven't seen any fight in the team in the last few matches.  but again, that could be linked to physical fitness. 

We've had a decent start points wise but we really need to pick it up very soon.

[Benny The Noon]

7 games and still not a single goal in the 2nd half of any match this season. 

The defence has being very unsettled since the injuries to Toure, Johnson and Agger. 
Lucas and Gerrard in particular both look bad from 45 mins - 60 mins and then look absolute cack for the final half hour. 
injuries and fitness are also affecting our strikers.
we don't look too creative up front and once the midfield collapses 2nd half we can't even get the ball forward. 

A lot of our problems this season seem to relate to injuries and fitness levels.  Not too sure why that is?  Are we too much in training?  Too little?  I really don't know. 
We also seem a bit poor mentally.  Haven't seen any fight in the team in the last few matches.  but again, that could be linked to physical fitness. 

We've had a decent start points wise but we really need to pick it up very soon.

We'll our fitness and stamina issues are over !

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest- ... h-gatorade

[jacdaniel]

7 games and still not a single goal in the 2nd half of any match this season. 

The defence has being very unsettled since the injuries to Toure, Johnson and Agger. 
Lucas and Gerrard in particular both look bad from 45 mins - 60 mins and then look absolute cack for the final half hour. 
injuries and fitness are also affecting our strikers.
we don't look too creative up front and once the midfield collapses 2nd half we can't even get the ball forward. 

A lot of our problems this season seem to relate to injuries and fitness levels.  Not too sure why that is?  Are we too much in training?  Too little?  I really don't know. 
We also seem a bit poor mentally.  Haven't seen any fight in the team in the last few matches.  but again, that could be linked to physical fitness. 

We've had a decent start points wise but we really need to pick it up very soon.

We'll our fitness and stamina issues are over !

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest- ... h-gatorade

[bunglemark2]

Gatorade, my hoop !

Farks sake, we have sponsorships with Garuda, Chevrolet, Standard Chartered  and now a poxy drinks company... Where is all this money being spent?

[Thommo's perm]

Has he got it right yet?
I believe we are suffering because of basic and fundamental things which other teams seem to think are more important than we do
1. Giving the ball away constantly is the opposite of what the manager wants. Yet Lucas, Gerrard (of late) Henderson and Enrique are all guilty of doing this. How do you stop it, other than dropping the player until he understands that you dont like it.
2. Corners. Do we practice them? It doesnt look like because we are one of the most ineffectual teams when it comes to scoring from corners. Stop Gerrard taking them? Is this the answer?
3. Throw ins. Total waste of time for decades for LFC. Why bother claiming them just to give posession back to the oposition? Much better to let the other team take them so WE gain posession?
4. Free kicks from outside shooting range. Again, Gerrard takes them and pretty much hits and hopes he gets a good delivery, then hopes someone will convert it into a goal. Do we need a rethink instead of doing the same thing over and over with the same result? Should someone else take them?
5. Free kicks from inside shooting range. Baines has proved it can be done. Cant we? Maybe with Suarez coming back this will change?
6. Crossing the ball into the box. If, and its a big if, we get a good cross in the box, we have no one there to head it. We have lost Crouch and Carroll and are shy of tall target men to head the ball in the net. So why bother trying?
7. Get numbers in the box. Nearly every attack we have see us outnumbered by the oppositions players. This means its harder to thread the ball through and we constantly get to the edge of the box, or in a position to put it into the danger area, only to see that we dont have enough players to cause trouble.
8. Not lumping it into the oppositions box to put pressure on when theres five minutes to go in a cup match. I am not contradicting myself when I was saying that crossing it was pointless. Im talking about the knowledge that managers and players have that we will not do this basic action because, no matter how little time we have left, we will not lower ourselves to do something like this. How about getting a "lets throw  the kitchen sink at them" type of mentality. Or doesnt the manager trust that we have the balls to do it? These are just some of the concerns I have that are seen nearly every time we play.
What bothers me is that we dont seem to change things around to give us different options.

1. Possession is 9 tenths of the law as they say. You're correct we're giving it away far to cheaply, but that for me is down to occassionally trying to over play and lacking movement. The players we have lack sufficient quality and it shows at times. Sometime players can give a ball away through not much fault of their own, Gerrard does try to force things sometimes, he's always done it though since an early age. Enrique sometimes gives it away because the person ten yards away from him wants him to launch it, which is just not going to happen. I think Enrique suffers from a massive lack of quality passers and movers in the team more than most due to his style.

2. Doesn't matter who takes the corners with the players we have attacking them. There isn't one player in the side who can attack a ball and head it. Gerrard either whips in a worldy, or a duffer. Gerrard should be in the box or on the edge, we all know that... but maybe if we had players who can attack a ball that wouldn't matter so much.

3. Don't understand your point? Please do elaborate?

4. Completely agree, we don't play enough short balls (also applies to corners).

5. Think you're right, Suarez will take more than not.

6. Agree again, crossing is the most overated way of scoring a goal but in England used to be "the way". Fine if you're a long ball side. We need a re think in the wide area's because we don't have one play, bar Gerrard who actually can cross.

7. Said this for years, unfortunately we lack the quality of players to do this regularly in open play. Its something that causes endless problems for opponents. I hate midfielders who stand still when they should be taking a touch, passing it, then moving beyond the ball.

8. Players naturally become overly conservative when protecting a lead, its upto the manager to organise them in a way they're able to play their usual game when under this pressure/mentality.

9. All in, a good post. B - 

Number 3: A throw in is an opportunity to gain possession for our team and can be used as an advantage. eg the throw in southampton took to put us under pressure. This led to the corner which led to the goal.
Most of the time players claim the throw in, only to spend ages waiting for someone to throw it to one of our players. This invariably leads to us losing posession and the opposition getting the ball back. In other words a throw in is not an advantage. In fact it is often a disadvantage. Hence my suggestion that we dont claim for them so we dont have to bother throwing the ball to the oposition.
Do you see?

[metalhead]

Just another quick point, for you to get numbers into the box you need to be sure your forward players aren't going to lose the ball.

If you've ever played the game at any level you'll know that if you're playing in midfield and you're giving a ball to a forward who keeps losing it, you'd rather stay at home and save your legs than go chasing a ball thats never going to come.

i dont think rodgers wants a lad to hold it up, hence why he hasnt signed any power up front and didnt want carroll.
thats why coutinho is so important for us as all the front men have to do is run and he will pick them out. outside of him we have no one who can produce that kind of service.
another thing is the amount of 50/50's we dont win    we are just as bad at those as we are with corners. 

I understand that, thats fine. I'm not a fan of "the big man upfront" either unless its used with certain types of midfield player.

What I mean is for example... if your forward has the ball, you don't wanna make that run, if you know he's going down a blind alley or isn't going to release it when he should. Sturridge does this alot. Having Suarez may help him, but at times for me he reacts to situations instead of anticipating them.

As I said in another thread... he only see's "the shot", he doesn't see the easy one two or easy one two three that will either

A: Get him a shot with more time
B: Allow the other person who receives the ball in a one two three to make the decision.

Suarez does see these passes.

Also, Moses for me plain as day isn't the answer. If he can contribute a few goals this season great, if the deal is made permanent then i'll be hugely disappointed.

That reminds me a lot when I played at midfield (I was so shyte ) the forward I was playing it was always trying to run into blind alleys or loses it the moment he receives the pass, used to p!ss me off a lot because I would give him the pass then move in order to get the pass back, but then I gave up 

I think against Fulham last season Stu Sturridge did see the pass and one two, the flicks to Borini and other passes he has done well with. He might not be consistent about it, but I do think he anticipates well and I really find his movement off the ball to be great, especially that he keeps moving and not so static like Andy Carroll for example.

[Benny The Noon]

It’s been a strange start to the season for Brendan Rodgers‘ Liverpool and already the manager is talking about the January transfer window.



Think Brendan Rodgers and you think of a manager with a clear philosophy, a system he knows he wants his team to play and an ability to coach and develop players, especially younger ones. Those are large reasons he was given the Liverpool manager’s job 15 months ago.

So how come, just 5 League games and 2 League Cup games into his second season, Rodgers appears to have lost all direction?

“We have to make sure we stay up in the top six in the league and keep fighting,” said Rodgers after the 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford on Wednesday night. “Hopefully we can reinforce again in January.”

Merely seven games in, having brought in seven new signings in the summer, and yet the manager who was been brought in to develop players is already looking towards the January transfer window.

A year ago, you could understand such a quote, but now it’s puzzling to say the least. We all knew where the squad needed strengthening in the summer, not that a defensive midfielder was signed.

Rodgers has made some odd decisions over the past month or two. He signed two centre-backs for a combined fee of around £24m, then played Martin Skrtel in every game since after hardly playing him for the six months prior.

Then there’s the change of formation, last night completely throwing his idealised 4-3-3 formation out the window and going with a 3-4-1-2 shape. Usually such tactical changes are best implemented during a pre-season, or after thorough work on the training ground. You can safely assume neither had happened here, with the Southampton defeat only four days ago.

Personally, I felt the formation last night worked pretty well, but it’s odd that a manager who has preached his philosophy so strongly to all of a sudden completely change his tune. What’s caused this change? Is it because he feels it’s the only way the side can accommodate Suarez and Sturridge?

Rodgers is a manager who has a reputation for trusting young players, “they’ll run through a brick wall for you” he famously said a year ago. Yet this season he has done far from that. He’s preferred to play Kolo Toure out of position than Andre Wisdom at right back and he refuses to drop Steven Gerrard despite the skipper looking in desperate need of a rest.

Now his side are out of the League Cup, the chances for Raheem Sterling, Luis Alberto, new £7m man Tiago Ilori, Andre Wisdom and the likes are going to be very, very slim.

The League Cup should be a competition that is used for two things; the opportunity to rest key players who need resting – see Lucas, Gerrard and Sturridge last night; and give opportunities to young squad players – such as Sterling, Alberto and Ilori last night.

The League Cup should not have been a priority for Liverpool this season. In fact, 100% of the club’s, and manager’s, focus should be purely on finishing in the top four which is incredibly crucial for the short and long term future of the Football Club.

Last night, the team selection should have reflected that we face a tough game, made tough by the sacking of Di Canio, at Sunderland on Sunday. Even just resting the trio of players named above would have been sensible.

Perhaps here would be an apt time to bring up the matter of fitness levels this season and how Rodgers’ side are still without a second half League goal and half the squad look completely worn out. Were they over-trained in pre-season?

This isn’t an attack on Rodgers, but some of what he has been doing of late is out of character, either that or the last 14 months were. Here is a manager who prides himself on coaching and developing players, yet he’s gone from a year ago rightly saying we didn’t have the numbers in the squad, to now saying we don’t have the quality in the squad.

Perhaps the questions raised above are harsh on Rodgers? After-all, a manager can’t be blamed for Enrique leaving his man unmarked six yards out on a corner, Lucas constantly giving the ball away in midfield, or Daniel Sturridge not having a right foot.

Nonetheless, Rodgers shouldn’t have wasted so much effort collectively on a competition that has literally no significance to the overall single goal of the Football Club at present – to get back into the top four. Hopefully now he will be forced to focus on this, and won’t repeat the same mistakes in January when the FA Cup starts.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/09/br ... nged-tune/

[redno7]

Loved his response to Match of the Day 2 asking him about Sturridge's goal he scored with his arm. I can't remember his exact wording of it but he said Sturridge had been practicing headers all week in training and fat lot a good it did him. It made him chuckle a bit too. Credit to him for not doing a wenger and denying all knowledge of the incident. BR said it was scored with his arm but there ya go. Sturridge also admitted it too.