Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

Of course...now go back 25 years and 2nd place would be a disaster...point is we're at this stage now where after years of mismanagement and changes of (wrong) ownership, we found ourself unable to compete with our closest rivals in commercial term and not having an owner who will invest £250M every couple of years so unfortunately we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up.

We all know the 4th place equates to a CL gold mine and to keep our existing players happy and be able to attract new marquee players to join us so of course that should be the first target for us...but when we don't sign a £30~£50M player each summer I keep hearing people questioning the owner's commitment, and how we are doomed. And even when before the season starts, I keep hearing all the  gloomy stories about how we will fu-cked up this season..."fans" nowadays 

A few years ago it was the same thing being said under Kenny "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we haven't GIVEN the likes of Adam, Henderson, Downing or Carroll a go, they haven't kicked a ball yet!"

The blind faithful thinking we were back to our winning ways with what many knowledgable fans saw as poor signings. At the end of the season when Kenny was dumped the same lemmings that had the blind faith only had one argument left, "Look at these "fans" who are delighted in being right all long, they would rather be right then see their club succed"     

In terms of quality and expectation you could almost replace Adam with Alberto, Downing with Toure and Carroll with Aspas. We don't have the strength to compete for 4th and aren't building a side to compete for 4th either! Every time I hear you lot say the following "we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up" I can't keep thinking of the following classic Simpson's one liner, "Let me get this straight: we're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? Cuckoo!"

It's sad that sheer delusion has now replaced ambition as a club.

It's clear as day we need to bring in quality and we need to bring it in NOW, not next season or the season after. The owners need to sell up, because the true fanbase have had enough of mediocrity and all we are doing is building the solid foundations of a mid-table side.

John Henry also needs to ask himself what is he smoking over there in Boston. The 4 additions we've had so far are not really quality additions. I thought those 4 were just appetizers in this window and now as time passes, it looks like those mostly average players are all we're going to get. All thanks to FSG stinginess and unworthiness. Please GET OUT OF OUR CLUB and sell to someone who is willing to invest heavily.

OUR Club ( regardless who the owner is ) has been ruined in the past 6 years by American money men - 3 years off the field ripping the club apart followed by 3 years on the field. Thankfully they bought us to take away the debt but its time for them to step forward and show ambition both on and off the field - build a squad and sort a stadium out. If they aren't willing to do that then sell up to people who want to move us forward.

[Benny The Noon]

What does Rodgers expect from wantaway striker Suarez after his transparent tosh?

In the course of the next nine months, the football managers of England will prattle a stream of pretentious platitudes. But as they clear their throats and prepare to break their summer silences, they know Brendan Rodgers has delivered a pre-emptive strike.

Rummaging through his ragbag of all-purpose cliches, the Liverpool manager produced this selection: ‘There has been total disrespect of a club that has given him everything… We have a standard at Liverpool and I will fight for my life to retain it. The Liverpool Way is all about being committed to the cause and fighting for the shirt. It’s also about dignity and being dignified in how you speak about the club. And it’s about unity.’

One by one, the boxes were ticked: respect, dignity, unity and our old friend, The Liverpool Way. The person who provoked the  outburst was, of course, Luis  Suarez. There is something about the little chap that pushes even the sanest of managers to the brink of self-parody. And as Rodgers launched his rant, you could imagine an unrepentant smile spreading across the player’s features as he trotted off to train in solitary confinement.

The manager’s criticisms were clearly justified, since Suarez is a manipulative chancer whose antics over the past couple of years have brought both his club and his sport into deep disrepute. If he were an ordinary footballer, then Liverpool would have marched him off the premises many months ago. But he is not ordinary. He is an original talent; brave, audacious and gloriously inventive. He is capable of transforming a club and shaping a season. Such people are consistently accommodated; their failings dismissed as foibles, their excesses reduced to eccentricities. Which brings us back to Brendan Rodgers.

When Kenny Dalglish was dismissed as Liverpool manager in May 2012, his treatment of Suarez was widely regarded as a contributory factor. The picture of Dalglish and his squad wearing Suarez  T-shirts after the player had been found guilty of racially abusing Manchester United’s Patrice Evra became the defining image of his brief and unimpressive tenure. When Rodgers succeeded, two weeks later, it seemed inconceivable that he would be guilty of similarly misplaced tolerance.

So let us consider the evidence: In late September 2012, he complained that Suarez was being denied valid penalty appeals. ‘He hasn’t dived, they’ve been legitimate, and he’s actually got booked,’ said Rodgers. ‘It would be a shame if players who respect the rules, and managers who are asking players to stay on their feet and not dive, are not getting the decisions because of it.’

A week on, after winning at Norwich, the theme was the same: ‘He now has a reputation for going down easily… He doesn’t get the rub of the green from officials, there’s absolutely no question.’

A further week, after a match against Stoke, his conviction had hardened: ‘There seems to be one set of rules for Luis and another set for everyone else… the vilification of Luis is both wrong and unfair.’

Three months later, the ‘vilified’ Suarez helpfully admitted he had in fact dived ‘because we were drawing at home and we needed anything to win it’.

It was around this time that Suarez scored against Everton and flung himself into a coy, celebratory dive. His manager beamed at the witless prank. In January this year, Suarez clearly handled before scoring in an FA Cup tie at Mansfield. Rodgers watched the damning replay, declined to  criticise the cheating and concluded: ‘It’s not deliberate, as it’s pushed up and hit his hand. It’s up to the officials to decide. That’s why they get paid as officials.’

Then in March, Rodgers announced that Suarez had changed for the better as a player and a person. ‘This is a guy who is trying to turn around his life and adapt to the culture,’ he said.

A month later, the reformed character sunk his teeth into the Chelsea defender Branislav Ivanovic. Rodgers was ‘bitterly disappointed’, but not by the offence. ‘It’s the severity of the ban that has hurt most,’ he said. And he added: ‘If you look at South American players, they do whatever it takes to win. This is the way they have been brought up. To fight for their lives.’ It was a pathetic performance; a series of managerial humiliations, willingly borne because the player was just too valuable to lose.

And Rodgers knew he had the bulk of the Liverpool following firmly alongside him, because they, too, recognised the striker’s worth.

But then Suarez went a step too far. Diving, cheating, abusing  referees, racial insults, biting opponents: the fans could swallow hard and overlook these trivial character flaws. But demanding to leave Liverpool was something else, something so heinous that forgiveness was rendered impossible.

And so the manager launched that outpouring of transparent tosh about The Liverpool Way and fighting for the shirt, while taking care not to cut the ties with his most valuable asset.

That Suarez has behaved shabbily will surprise nobody, since that is his nature. But his behaviour has been wilfully abetted by the endless indulgence of his manager. We thought Brendan Rodgers was better than that. It seems we were wrong.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... llins.html

[eds]

I think you will actually find  that it is their club and if FSG's behaviour over the Suarez debacle hasn't convinced you of their commitment then I don't know what will.

Let me explain something to you sunshine, Henry and co are custodians of our club, nothing more, nothing less. Just like Hicks and Gillette before them.

Whether our club is sold to a yank in a business suit that knows nothing about the game, or a rich sheik or rusky tycoon our CLUB will never belong to one individual.

The club has always and will always be owned by the fans, don't be fooled by anyone or anything that tells you otherwise.

As for them talking tough on Suarez, let's see them back that up with bringing in quality players or a future stadium before we start hollering out like a shonky Evangelist preacher how faultless they are.

[redno7]

I think FSG know of at least £300m reasons why it's their club

however without the fans they don't have a club so I see where your aiming this from.

[Santa]

Santa go back 4 years and 4th place wasnt good enough. We are now at a time when 4th place would be like winning the league.

Of course...now go back 25 years and 2nd place would be a disaster...point is we're at this stage now where after years of mismanagement and changes of (wrong) ownership, we found ourself unable to compete with our closest rivals in commercial term and not having an owner who will invest £250M every couple of years so unfortunately we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up.

We all know the 4th place equates to a CL gold mine and to keep our existing players happy and be able to attract new marquee players to join us so of course that should be the first target for us...but when we don't sign a £30~£50M player each summer I keep hearing people questioning the owner's commitment, and how we are doomed. And even when before the season starts, I keep hearing all the  gloomy stories about how we will fu-cked up this season..."fans" nowadays 

A few years ago it was the same thing being said under Kenny "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we haven't GIVEN the likes of Adam, Henderson, Downing or Carroll a go, they haven't kicked a ball yet!"

The blind faithful thinking we were back to our winning ways with what many knowledgable fans saw as poor signings. At the end of the season when Kenny was dumped the same lemmings that had the blind faith only had one argument left, "Look at these "fans" who are delighted in being right all long, they would rather be right then see their club succed"     

In terms of quality and expectation you could almost replace Adam with Alberto, Downing with Toure and Carroll with Aspas. We don't have the strength to compete for 4th and aren't building a side to compete for 4th either! Every time I hear you lot say the following "we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up" I can't keep thinking of the following classic Simpson's one liner, "Let me get this straight: we're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? Cuckoo!"

It's sad that sheer delusion has now replaced ambition as a club.

It's clear as day we need to bring in quality and we need to bring it in NOW, not next season or the season after. The owners need to sell up, because the true fanbase have had enough of mediocrity and all we are doing is building the solid foundations of a mid-table side.

Having a go at me ya? I don't understand nor see any of your points. Maybe you think you belonged to the category of the "knowledgable fans" though I have been supporting the club for the past 42 years so I have became the old blind faithful. If so then I humbly concede to your self proclaimed superiority and begged your forgiveness for my less educated intrusion.

When I say baby steps I mean first aim for a Top 4 finish the consolidate and grow from there. Don't you think that I wished for FSG announce a £80-£100M war chest and start building a stadium pronto? Well sugar daddy FSG ain't, so unless we are soon to be prostituted off to some dirty oil moguls, we are not going to compete with the likes of Citeh and Chelski anytime soon. Look how long it takes Arsenal to tighten their belt while the cost for their stadiums are being funded? I hated the sight of Arsene right now but you've gotta admit that he did a great job while their club were virtually running on fumes. Unfortunately we had it rough since David Moores took over and appointed Souness to take charge, and starts our quick decent down the league table. So unfortunately some hard pills will need to be swallow before we can hoped to get well again.

I wished that we could afford a couple of big name £40M signing every summer but you know that ain't gonna happen unless we got into the CL gold pot first. I went through the years where we won league title year after year so don't think for a moment that I'm not hurting inside. But I'm also being realistic so stop acting like a spoilt child and demand a bigger toy that the next kids when we simply CAN'T AFFORD IT at this moment, so we know as it is we can't buy our way to overnight success and so we've got to have trust in the manager in charge. BR though relatively inexperience but I've seen the steel in him to take us higher up...will he be the marquee manager which will take our relatively mediocre team to the hight of CL? TBH I'm not sure, and I don't think he is at that level now nor for a few more years to come (which is why I will view Rafa as rather special manager).

So I'm not sure what to feel when I hear the fans demanding some big ticket purchases or calling for the present owners to be culled...if it were that easy, then we should have done it when DIC came calling but unfortunately we chose to sell to Mickey and Minnie. Blame the racist decision maker then David Moores and Steve Morgan who decided that the club should not be sold other than to another Westerners. So now my dear comrades, sit up and think who do you think we should ask FSG relinquish our club to? If you have never run or own a business in your life then don't bother to reply because you simply have no clue as to the real world economics.

We are far away from our heydays so we need to be patient and give our trust to our current manager. Mistakes will be made along the way and disappointing days must be endured, for when we rise again, we can the call ourself a true fan.

Lastly I agree that I don't think FSG is a perfect custodian of our club but what choice do we have now? and plastic fans who wanted quick overnight success should start looking for another club to support. Without the money from CL qualification, or tap into our biggest resource -- our vast worldwide fan base & the Liverpool FC brand name, then financially we will fall further and further behind. Fortunately, these two are reachable goals and we should look into that before day dreaming about challenging for the league title now.

Sorry my typing here is incoherent but I'm just speaking off the top of my mind. If I accidentally stepped on a few tails please forgive me for I'm tired of coming here and hear b1tches moaning and starting a handbag fight day after day. I will end my postings here and take a short break away from this mad house. All the best to the lads for this week's game...onwards and upwards

[eds]

In all that rambling you haven't addressed any of the points most fans are concerned about:

* Why have we only NET spent $2-3m on players so far this transfer window? Where is the money going?
* Why is Rodgers and FSG convinvced that the players we have bought are enough to get us better results than last season? It's clear as day they won't.
* Why have we not bought in a solid CB and / or winger yet?
* Why have we wasted all our time and energy trying to keep a player that doesn't want to stay here?
* Three years after they took over, let me repeat that for you, THREE YEARS AFTER THEY TOOK OVER, where is the progress on the stadium? It's not like we are asking for.....POOF! a magic new shiny stadium to appear, no we are simply asking for progress in the last three years!
*  Why do you "lot" continually jump to conclusions with fans asking for "sugar-daddy" owners? We are simply asking for more investment than an average 18-20m NET per season? If you don't understand the concept of buying quality to "aim for 4th spot" (as you say) then football is lost as a concept on you.

[Red Focus]

I agree with Eds. I've been observing FSG since they took over and so far I have not seen any significant progress taken from there part. Where is the stadium, where are the funds for quality signings? Do you think those 4 guys we signed early last month are enough for top 4 finish? All they want are signing kids who will become targets of CL clubs if they become good and Financial Fair Play(FFP). I tell you, all the Chelsea and Man City owners can circumvent all the loop holes there if they want to. And the LS saga looks like will turn ugly sooner rather than later. I don't think the fella will ever play for the first team again based on what I can see. So without LS next season and no more quality additions, we'll finish 7th or 8th again next season. I don't have any high hopes of finishing in top 4, just don't do worse than last season and finish 8th or below. As long as FSG are owners, forget about Liverpool qualifying for CL. I have the opinion that they have the long term goal of selling Liverpool to another owner for a huge profit, that's why they always emphasise on balancing the books and cutting the wage bills. Once the accounts look attractive, they will sell it. These guys are not here for the long term. I look forward to the day they sell to an oil rich tycoon and get out of our club forever. So in the mean time, just tolerate with mid table mediocrity. I can put my house to bet Liverpool will not finish in top 4 if we stand the way we are when the season kicks off. And please don't start accusing me being rival fan, I just don't like what I'm seeing at how the club I love is being managed now while City, Chelsea, manure are going further and further ahead of us.

[red till i die!!]

fenway are never going to dig deep and spend a fortune, they have said it numerous times that they wont so i dont know why people seem to be expecting it to happen.
they are not the people either who are signing the players,its the manager, it rodgers who says we have money, we will make signings but i wont just spend it for the sake of it, it will have to be the right person, the person who makes the group stronger. the players that he is signing therefore have to be in his mind the best and he will have to stand by it.
what happens on the pitch is his responsibility and its really important that we take a significant step forward this season and not 2 back.

[devaney]

I think you will actually find  that it is their club and if FSG's behaviour over the Suarez debacle hasn't convinced you of their commitment then I don't know what will.

Let me explain something to you sunshine, Henry and co are custodians of our club, nothing more, nothing less. Just like Hicks and Gillette before them.

Whether our club is sold to a yank in a business suit that knows nothing about the game, or a rich sheik or rusky tycoon our CLUB will never belong to one individual.

The club has always and will always be owned by the fans, don't be fooled by anyone or anything that tells you otherwise.

As for them talking tough on Suarez, let's see them back that up with bringing in quality players or a future stadium before we start hollering out like a shonky Evangelist preacher how faultless they are.

No need for the patronising "sunshine" shit. We are (well most of us) all grown ups. I was making a factually statement and wether we like it or not FSG own us and are slightly more than custodians. I love your passion and desire but it isn't going to take five minutes to sort out the mess created by H & G followed by Comolli and Kenny. Let's not forget Rafa's last twelve months which didn't actually help either.I just get totally fed up with fans giving FSG down the banks and questioning their worthiness.What exactly was the sum of money that FSG allowed Comolli and Kenny to spend?

[Benny The Noon]

fenway are never going to dig deep and spend a fortune, they have said it numerous times that they wont so i dont know why people seem to be expecting it to happen.
they are not the people either who are signing the players,its the manager, it rodgers who says we have money, we will make signings but i wont just spend it for the sake of it, it will have to be the right person, the person who makes the group stronger. the players that he is signing therefore have to be in his mind the best and he will have to stand by it.
what happens on the pitch is his responsibility and its really important that we take a significant step forward this season and not 2 back.

They dont need to spend a "fortune" just give the manager a respectable budget that can allow him to buy the quality needed to get to a CL Spot. This summer saw an increase of about £30mil given to clubs because of telly deals , we have massively slashed our wage bill ( another 300 grand a week - £15mil a year ) plus extra commercial revenue earned.

We over their year have an income more than City and even Chelsea without CL football. We far outstrip Spurs financially so why is their owner and CEO willing to spend £70mil  plus on 4 quality player - the reason why is because they need to to get into the CL.

We on the other hand continue to slash wage bills and run on a profit in the transfer window when it's quite clear how far away we are from CL and the glaring gaps in quality.

See and heard plenty suggest they are tidying us up for a sale - I hope that's the case because I think it's clear they don't understand what it takes to succeed in the prem.

And that's not even without talking about the stadium issue.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Benny The Noon

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... llins.html

what a load of cr@p, every manager would have done the same as rodgers

[Red Focus]

It is likely that FSG are tidying up the accounts to sell for big profit. If it's true, I hope it will materialise a.s.a.p. Under FSG, we'll remain either midtable or around 5th to 8th place finish every season and no way are we going to qualify for CL under those cowboy owners. To be successful in the PL, the owners need to back the manager with the funds that he needs. BR have not been backed enough to significantly strengthen the squad. Look at City and Chelsea, I am getting envious of them. The champions next season will be one of those 2. Just because we're Liverpool with ambitions and glorious history doesn't mean we have the licence to be among the elite, the past 23 years have proven it to be false. Like the hare, the club has been asleep for far too long and let the City, Chelsea, Arsenal, manure turtles overtaken us by miles and the gap is widening every summer.

[LFC1990]

If FSG are tidying us up for a sale why wouldnt they just SEll Suarez?

Get 40 million and his reported 100+ thousand wages off the books.

They have spent more money this year the UTD and Arsenal and who knows who else is to come in?

They said at the start that they wouldnt spend silly money on players but are looking for a specific type so why are we suprised that we havent invested as heavily as say city or Chelsea

We have had reported bids for Mkhitaryan and Costa rejected around the 20 M mark.

[redno7]

It is likely that FSG are tidying up the accounts to sell for big profit. If it's true, I hope it will materialise a.s.a.p. Under FSG, we'll remain either midtable or around 5th to 8th place finish every season and no way are we going to qualify for CL under those cowboy owners. To be successful in the PL, the owners need to back the manager with the funds that he needs. BR have not been backed enough to significantly strengthen the squad. Look at City and Chelsea, I am getting envious of them. The champions next season will be one of those 2. Just because we're Liverpool with ambitions and glorious history doesn't mean we have the licence to be among the elite, the past 23 years have proven it to be false. Like the hare, the club has been asleep for far too long and let the City, Chelsea, Arsenal, manure turtles overtaken us by miles and the gap is widening every summer.

how clueless does a person have to be? you have ZERO idea on anything Liverpool FC related.

are you benny under a new name? you post just like him. 

[devaney]

It is likely that FSG are tidying up the accounts to sell for big profit. If it's true, I hope it will materialise a.s.a.p. Under FSG, we'll remain either midtable or around 5th to 8th place finish every season and no way are we going to qualify for CL under those cowboy owners. To be successful in the PL, the owners need to back the manager with the funds that he needs. BR have not been backed enough to significantly strengthen the squad. Look at City and Chelsea, I am getting envious of them. The champions next season will be one of those 2. Just because we're Liverpool with ambitions and glorious history doesn't mean we have the licence to be among the elite, the past 23 years have proven it to be false. Like the hare, the club has been asleep for far too long and let the City, Chelsea, Arsenal, manure turtles overtaken us by miles and the gap is widening every summer.

how clueless does a person have to be? you have ZERO idea on anything Liverpool FC related.

are you benny under a new name? you post just like him. 

Cowboy owners? These are the guys who now have our accounts in a decent state rather than carrying the debt of a small country. These are the guys that allowed Comolli and Kenny to spend a small fortune. These are the guys that have just told Arsenal to shove their £40m....

Give it a fkg rest.........