Liverpool FC Forum

by **48-1119859832** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:43 pm

I never said Chelsea were a big club did I? I never once mentioned they are a big club. I mentioned that they are a big club in the city of London. Try reading then you might understand. As for me being boring, that's fair enough, you know where the log off button is..click it.

A ranking system made up of people who have nothing better to do doesn't mean you're a big club. Big clubs are made through the amount of trophies you win. Simple as, you can try and cover it up all you like with revenues, ranking systems and ground size but that means :censored:

all when you don't challenge for honours.

And here's a little question for you, if you're as big as you say you are then why are stuck in 11th place, surely a big club doesn't sink that low?

by **48-1119859832** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:45 pm

nufclee wrote:Also if you rank clubs solely on trophy winnings, are rangers and celtic bigger than Liverpool(team gerrard)?

Lets face facts there are only two teams in the scottish league 'n' they are Celtic 'n' Rangers, the rest are there to make up the numbers also the small fact neither of them have done anything in Europe.

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:47 pm

0asis wrote:I never said Chelsea were a big club did I? I never once mentioned they are a big club. I mentioned that they are a big club in the city of London. Try reading then you might understand. As for me being boring, that's fair enough, you know where the log off button is..click it.

A ranking system made up of people who have nothing better to do doesn't mean you're a big club. Big clubs are made through the amount of trophies you win. Simple as, you can try and cover it up all you like with revenues, ranking systems and ground size but that means all when you don't challenge for honours.

And here's a little question for you, if you're as big as you say you are then why are stuck in 11th place, surely a big club doesn't sink that low?

Ok, so your basis for argument is that the official governing bodies are wrong and you are right? Hmmm... good one? You realise that the rankings are all done by statistics and not by random choice don't you?

You never once said Chelsea are a big club? You said that big clubs have to be in g14 to be a big club. You're therefore saying that Chelsea are not a big club. That also discredits your argument.

In summary, you're a joke belitting a club and not being able to back it up.

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:48 pm

0asis wrote:
nufclee wrote:Also if you rank clubs solely on trophy winnings, are rangers and celtic bigger than Liverpool(team gerrard)?

Lets face facts there are only two teams in the scottish league 'n' they are Celtic 'n' Rangers, the rest are there to make up the numbers also the small fact neither of them have done anything in Europe.

It doesn't matter, look how many trophies they have. That's your mentality, but it looks silly when you change the perspective on it doesn't it.

by **48-1119859832** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:55 pm

I didn't say I was right because when it comes down to debating football nothing is right 'n' nothing is wrong it's all about personal opinion. If these rankings are done by statistics then they have obviously left one statistic out and that would be "how many trophies a club has won" statistic.

I did say that big clubs have to be big in G14, hence why I never said Chelsea are a big club, because they aren't a big club when you compare them to United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Barcelona etc.

Chelsea are going through a transformation from medium sized club to big club 'n' that transformation isn't completed with just one Carling Cup 'n' One League trophy.

I can belittle Newcy because you have won 0 Champions Leagues to our 5, so there....that's all the back up I need.

by **48-1119859832** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:58 pm

nufclee wrote:It doesn't matter, look how many trophies they have. That's your mentality, but it looks silly when you change the perspective on it doesn't it.

Celtic 'n' Rangers are big clubs by there own admission. Altho if you were to say they were bigger than Liverpool than think again, we've conquered Europe more times than both of em put together.

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:01 pm

0asis wrote:I didn't say I was right because when it comes down to debating football nothing is right 'n' nothing is wrong it's all about personal opinion. If these rankings are done by statistics then they have obviously left one statistic out and that would be "how many trophies a club has won" statistic.

I did say that big clubs have to be big in G14, hence why I never said Chelsea are a big club, because they aren't a big club when you compare them to United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Barcelona etc.

Chelsea are going through a transformation from medium sized club to big club 'n' that transformation isn't completed with just one Carling Cup 'n' One League trophy.

I can belittle Newcy because you have won 0 Champions Leagues to our 5, so there....that's all the back up I need.

Obviously the trophy stat isn't omitted, its obviously accounted for. If newcastle can be a top club with their trophy stat so poor, then surely it means we must have impressive stats in other aspects, if you can deny that then you're an idiot. Like I say you lot use the trophy argument when it suits you, but when it's put into different formats to work against Liverpool, you start taking other things into consideration. In other words sugar coating everything and twisting it to prove your argument, your dumbfounded argument.

by **jonnymac1979** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:01 pm

nufclee wrote:
0asis wrote:My argument holds creditability, if you're not in G14 then you're not a big club simple as that. Until you start challenging for trophies on a regular basis and actually start winning trophies to add to your empty, dusty cabinet you will never be seen by any other set of supporters as a BIG club.

No, supporters of other clubs accept us as a big club. A 'sleeping giant' is the terminology widely used. The reason why I signed up to this forum is because Team Gerrard fans are the only fans narrow minded enough to belittle us constantly, and I wanted to get to the bottom of this. Maybe it's just an excuse to brag about your recent trophy success, or maybe it's bitterness still from the Owen transfer, I don't know. Maybe it's because Liverpool are also underachievers, when you consider that you've been nowhere near the league title for so long and you want to feel superior to another big club so belittle us?

You really sound like an Evertonian mate. One of my drinking buddies is a season ticket holder at St James', goes every week, home and away and he's from Liverpool same as me, but originally from the north-east. He's a fantastic supporter of Newcastle so I know whereof I speak and he doesn't come across a fraction of what you have in your short time on this forum so far. You're very bitter against Liverpool for some reason.

You've got a lot to get off your chest I'm sure but the “Team Gerrard” thing just wont wash on here.

You can't come on here and dismiss us as bitter and dismissive, when all we are doing is celebrating winning the biggest competition in the World, for the fifth time may I add, when all you have won since the Fairs Cup in 1969 is some woeful competition called the Texaco Cup if I'm not wrong. We’re the Europoean Champions and we are respected throughout Europe for it. Would Newcastle United celebrate winning the European Cup? Yes they would. Shut up then.

So your classification of us as "also underachievers" including yourselves in the same bracket as us is also to be disagreed with, seeing as we have won plenty of trophies since the turn of the millennium, the only one missing in fact is the league championship, which of course Newcastle have challenged for in that same time period haven't they? Fourth in 2002 and third in 2003. Again, looking at our admitted relevant failure in the league in the same time period, we still come off better than you if you want to be so petty about under achieving.

Neither can you come on here and throw accusations around about being bitter over the Owen transfer, when in your own heart of hearts you must also be able to see the day he will leave your club. He left us, he will certainly leave you.

Let me tell you he needed to leave Madrid. He would have signed for Manchester United if it meant it didn't fuck his career up, which staying at Madrid most certainly would have done, and that is not even bringing Liverpool into the transfer equation. You must realise he is only at Newcastle United for the money and his England place. Harsh but true, and this comes from a supporter who would have Owen back here tomorrow, even if him coming back here last summer would have only been because of the same reasons that he had signed for Newcastle United.

Owen only left Madrid, not because he wanted to come back to Newcastle United, Manchester United, or even Liverpool for that matter. If he wanted to play for Liverpool, he shouldn’t have left in the first place. Owen came back because he had failed relatively speaking, at Real Madrid. When I say relatively speaking, he SUCCESSFULLY scored goals for them, but he wasn’t a first choice because of the ridiculous way they are organised and managed. He was expendable in Spain and it came back to haunt him. He is at Newcastle because he deserves to be at Newcastle. Liverpool would have him if Benitez would matched the price Madrid accepted from Newcastle and left it up to the player to decide where to go to. Benitez rightly chose not to of course. If he had of been considered a success at Real Madrid, by the Madrid hierarchy, he would not be on Tyneside, never mind Lancashire, Merseyside, London or Milan. He would still be in Madrid.

I would still have Owen back at Liverpool though, 100 times out of 100 when all is said and done. Against Manchester City on Sunday, I sat about twenty yards away in the lower centenary and watched Steven Gerrard drill a ball across the penalty box just before half time and neither Crouch (who I rate) or Morientes (who I don’t) took the gamble to hit the space in the six yard box and even attempt to make a half-chance out of it. Owen would have eaten the half-chance up. Not saying he would have scored, but it is a chance he would have taken regardless. Not wishing to sound at all wise in hindsight, or offering any advice on how to feel, but you might want to consider yourself lucky you have Michael Owen, he won’t stick around at Newcastle.

Sure, some Liverpool fans are bitter about him leaving. They’re very much entitled to be, but we still won the European Cup without him and are still in the last 16 of this years competition with out of form strikers. The money we received for him enabled us in some way to buy Alonso and Garcia a couple of weeks later. We have moved on, but I personally would not say not say no to having a 26 year old Michael Owen playing for Liverpool.

As far as Newcastle United go, I have no more dislike or feelings about them as I have for any other mid table non-threatening team. We've had some good games with you down the years and you played some good stuff ten years back when Keegan was in charge. With respect to you, you're not playing in the same ball park as us at the moment and you offer no immediate challenge. When you do start challenging us, then come back to me and we'll discuss how much I want you to lose every week and how much I can't stand your team. So from a "Team Gerrard" perspective, I couldn't care less how "Team Shearer" do. Even show me Manchester United and Chelsea's reults before yours. You are no threat to us. They immediately are, we still need to catch them. At the moment, Newcastle can humour themselves all they want that they are as big a club as Liverpool and are level on performance and achivement with us.

Read this thread here started by JBG which I PM’d to you this afternoon. It offers a good discussion point.

Thread by JBG

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:06 pm

The under achievement comments obviously relates to our respective standards. Do you find it acceptable that your club has got nowhere near the league recently after the 80s domination? I don't think any Liverpool fan does.

The reason I came here is because every clubs fans acknowledges in some form or other that we're a big club, other than you b@stards.

The official rankings also back up that we're a big club. Why is this so hard to accept for you lot? Why the constant need to belittle us and constant need to point out our lack of trophies?

by **48-1119859832** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:14 pm

nufclee wrote:Obviously the trophy stat isn't omitted, its obviously accounted for. If newcastle can be a top club with their trophy stat so poor, then surely it means we must have impressive stats in other aspects, if you can deny that then you're an idiot. Like I say you lot use the trophy argument when it suits you, but when it's put into different formats to work against Liverpool, you start taking other things into consideration. In other words sugar coating everything and twisting it to prove your argument, your dumbfounded argument.

Surely you must have outstanding stats somewhere else but stats make little worth reading if you are in the position you're in, unless you're easily amused and this stat brightens your day?

I only use the trophy argument against ignorant and delusional supporters who think their club 'n' team is something it's not then I present them with our fine history to make them see they are delusional, just some people i.e you like to be ignorant, so I'll let you be.

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:18 pm

0asis wrote:
nufclee wrote:Obviously the trophy stat isn't omitted, its obviously accounted for. If newcastle can be a top club with their trophy stat so poor, then surely it means we must have impressive stats in other aspects, if you can deny that then you're an idiot. Like I say you lot use the trophy argument when it suits you, but when it's put into different formats to work against Liverpool, you start taking other things into consideration. In other words sugar coating everything and twisting it to prove your argument, your dumbfounded argument.

Surely you must have outstanding stats somewhere else but stats make little worth reading if you are in the position you're in, unless you're easily amused and this stat brightens your day?

I only use the trophy argument against ignorant and delusional supporters who think their club 'n' team is something it's not then I present them with our fine history to make them see they are delusional, just some people i.e you like to be ignorant, so I'll let you be.

No you're argument is that our club, supporters, and official rankings think we're something we're not? Hmm, or maybe you're a :censored:

. I'm not for one minute claiming we're a sucessful big club. We're an underachieving big club. That's what you narrow minded :censored:

can't grasp, as you can't see past the word 'trophy'

by **48-1119859832** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:21 pm

You're not a big club, just accept it. There's no shame in it as there are more small clubs than big ones. Anyway I'll let you be ignorant and keep thinking you are what you're not.

I'll concentrate on watching Liverpool improve and watch you lot decline, good day.

by **jonnymac1979** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:21 pm

You're arguments don't stand up. Trophies will always win.

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:23 pm

0asis wrote:You're not a big club, just accept it. There's no shame in it as there are more small clubs than big ones. Anyway I'll let you be ignorant and keep thinking you are what you're not.

I'll concentrate on watching Liverpool improve and watch you lot decline, good day.

5 match unbeaten run since Souness left conceding one goal? That's a decline?

by **nufclee** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:25 pm

jonnymac1979 wrote:You're arguments don't stand up. Trophies will always win.

Aye but we know that Liverpool are skint, and if they can't challenge with their current squad can't really do much to improve. A big club like ourselves can go and spend loads of cash in order to improve

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