Liverpool FC Forum

by **lakes10** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:12 am

Ciggy wrote:Not one single fan interviewed on SSN was from Liverpool who wanted Rafa out, go figur,e support yer local team thats always an option. No?

yes and if all fand that did not live in liverpool did move to their home club we would only have 450,000 fans and there would be not club in a year.

by **phil_cool** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:17 am

LFC2007 wrote:I think the potential for it to get a lot worse would increase if we fecked around with the manager situation now. We have to bear in mind that we've got City at home approaching - now a hugely significant fixture, with an international break in between - a chance for fresh impetus; for our injured players to recuperate and for those involved to get away and refresh mentally, an opportunity too for Rafa to reflect on where we've gone wrong and how we might resolve our problems. He has a lot of knowledge about this team, a great deal more than any interim replacement would ever be able to acquire in such a short period of time. In the long-run, that understanding should pay off - at least insofar as getting us a top four spot it should, and that's why I think the fact that recent performances have improved is something to be especially hopeful about.

It's certainly as positive a sign as you'll find at the moment.

A lot would depend on who we brought in. Hiddink turned Chelsea around, Redknapp turned Spurs around, get the right person in and maybe we could still save something from this season.

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:17 am

I think although the results haven't improved much, the performances have and you can sense that there's a turnaround in the offing. We beat the Mancs and played well, got done at Arsenal but played well with a makeshift team, admittedly bombed out at Fulham with an odd selection, but played well in Lyons and were unlucky, before playing well again last night. I was watching the players last night for signs of being "lost" and I didn't get that sense at all, just got the sense that our confidence is fragile and that we don't believe that we are going to get an even break.

All that said, we are currently eleven points behind Chelsea having played the same number of matches. We are a win ahead of both Stoke and Burnley, and quite what we are all supposed to be standing up and believing in seems more confusing by the match. It's long gone past the point where thinking we are going to win the title requires faith, belief amd being a "real fan". It actually requires drink, drugs or delusion (or a combo thereof), and has for a while.

Clearly there will be questions to be answered at a later date (unless being out of the league by the end of October really is as much as we can hope for these days) but for now there's little to be gained IMHO from changing the manager.

by **Dazzer** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:29 am

lakes10 wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
lakes10 wrote:ok with results going the way they are there is a very real danger that Rafa will walk or get sack.

now

what results do we need to get to stop him from going or getting the sack, i mean in the long run.
if we dont end up in the cl next year i think it will be very hard for him to keep his job....or being 4th and being 15 points off the top just as bad.

say we are going to have a bad year, how bad can it get and Rafa still have his job.

so get this right, i am not saying sack him, i am asking what can he get away with or what results do we need for him to still be our manager next year.

He has to go for me lakes he ain't been doing to bad of late with tactics but its too little to late his downfall for me has been his stupid buys and dropping the level of the squad to a top 8 side.

ok so what would you need to see to say" ok he should stay"

would it be results alone or the way the teams plays and looks?

Nothing lakes because he has blown his chance with players he bought.I just think the players we have are just not consistent enough bar Gerrard and Torres.Rest just don't cut it if you wanna be pushing the league.Alonso was up there with those 2 but we sold him and 30 mil wasn't enough tbh.If ronaldo is worth 80 Alonso I would not let go for less then 45 easy.I would have said that to Alonso and beged him to stay feck my pride I would have beged Alonso to stay if i was manager.I still feel he was that important to our team and system.

by **made in UK** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:45 am

phil_cool wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I think the potential for it to get a lot worse would increase if we fecked around with the manager situation now. We have to bear in mind that we've got City at home approaching - now a hugely significant fixture, with an international break in between - a chance for fresh impetus; for our injured players to recuperate and for those involved to get away and refresh mentally, an opportunity too for Rafa to reflect on where we've gone wrong and how we might resolve our problems. He has a lot of knowledge about this team, a great deal more than any interim replacement would ever be able to acquire in such a short period of time. In the long-run, that understanding should pay off - at least insofar as getting us a top four spot it should, and that's why I think the fact that recent performances have improved is something to be especially hopeful about.

It's certainly as positive a sign as you'll find at the moment.

A lot would depend on who we brought in. Hiddink turned Chelsea around, Redknapp turned Spurs around, get the right person in and maybe we could still save something from this season.

Fair point phil.

by **Judge** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:59 am

football is a results business - sadly we aint getting the results, doesnt matter how you paint it. good performance, bad result etc etc, what a load........

you dont get the results you get someone in who can - simple. Rafa is not bigger than Liverpool FC, and tbh, no manager in football history can say there job is safe - you have to keep going, but you need positive results, not positives from a match, then go and win the next, lose 5 others, and draw 1 etc. Hardly inspiring is it !!!

by **Dazzer** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:04 am

Judge wrote:football is a results business - sadly we aint getting the results, doesnt matter how you paint it. good performance, bad result etc etc, what a load........

you dont get the results you get someone in who can - simple. Rafa is not bigger than Liverpool FC, and tbh, no manager in football history can say there job is safe - you have to keep going, but you need positive results, not positives from a match, then go and win the next, lose 5 others, and draw 1 etc. Hardly inspiring is it !!!

I just hope we start to get some wins soon Judge I really do if we carry on at this rate we might start finding out selfs bottom half of table and if you do that around christmas you in deep deep sh.it. :angry:

Our next 4 games is a nightmare.

Manchester City H
Everton A
Blackburn Rovers A
Arsenal H

On curret Form I think we only get 6 points out of those 4 games.If we lucky :down:

by **Ciggy** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:53 am

Rafa said before kick off on ESPN that he has had loads of offers from top clubs around the world, but he will stay loyal to the fans and win us more trophys.

by **stmichael** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:04 pm

bigmick wrote:Well I don't have loyalty to Rafael Benitez, I don't support Rafael Benitez FC, it's Liverpool FC. That said, I still think we should stick with the manager for a number of reasons.

Firstly, it is absolutely vital that we get into the top four and at this stage I can't see that we're any more likely to achive that if we stuck someone else in charge. It'd be different if the team looked dispirited, or there wasn't any sensible reason for the awful form, but the injuries are clearly having an impact so I'd be inclined to wait until people are fit and then have a look. If at some point it starts to look like we won't get into the top four, or it has that look where the manager has "lost" the dressing room, then I'd pull the trigger and let Kenny be caretaker. We can't though in all seriousness look for a replacement until the end of the season, as we've then got much more chance of getting someone good.

So it's not loyalty on my part, I just think that given the circumstances we should leave the manager where he is and just hope he turns it around.

I'd agree with that. Under the current circumstances there is nobody who could do a better job. The manager wants to be here and I have every faith that he'll turn it around. In many ways, the International break has come at the ideal time as it has given our injured players a couple of weeks to recuperate. I mean any team would be struggling without Torres, Gerrard, Aquilani, Aurelio, Riera and Benayoun, not to mention the fact that Johnson and Agger have just come back from injury aswell. We've been crippled by injuries this season.

By the way, these reports that Rafa has "lost the dressing room" is complete garbage imo. Just more sensationalist newspaper rubbish to stick the boot in to the club when the chips are down.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:14 pm

I don't think he has lost the dressing room , but he certainly lost a lot of experienced backroom staff in the summer. Rafa is fond of saying how its the little details that make the difference between winning and losing. Maybe sacking so many staff and losing all that experience is part of the problem we now have? We have a catalogue of injuries, but plenty of new fitness coaches.

by **made in UK** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:55 pm

s@int wrote:I don't think he has lost the dressing room , but he certainly lost a lot of experienced backroom staff in the summer. Rafa is fond of saying how its the little details that make the difference between winning and losing. Maybe sacking so many staff and losing all that experience is part of the problem we now have? We have a catalogue of injuries, but plenty of new fitness coaches.

who did he sack?

by **Ciggy** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:56 pm

By David Maddox

It is fashionable at the moment to use the word 'fact' when denigrating Rafael Benitez and all things Liverpool.

So rather than repeat the lame joke doing the rounds about the fact behind the teams they have lost to, I thought I'd try to offer a little bit of perspective to all this ridiculous, ill-informed knee-jerk nonsense currently being spouted about the manager's position, by presenting a fact of my own.

Here is a real fact for you.

In their 117 year history, Liverpool have sacked precisely no managers while a season is underway. Let me repeat that figure. None. Zilch. Zero. Nada. In fact, during all that time, Liverpool have actually only ever sacked two managers, Gerard Houllier in 2004, and before that Don Welsh in 1956, and both at the end of the campaign.

So, when you hear the latest 'expert opinion' that Benitez will be sacked if Liverpool go out of the Champions League in two weeks, or that he has until Christmas to turn things around or he's out of a job, just pause and think of that fact for a moment.

They have never been, nor ever will be, a sacking club. And they will never sack a manager during a league campaign, no matter how miserable things become, nor how loud the calls are for the axe to be sharpened by those so-called experts.

I have to admit, I have come to despair about some elements of my profession in recent weeks, because they don't seem to even know how to spell perspective, never mind use it.

When they talk about Benitez being replaced, by Kenny Dalglish or uncle Tom Cobbley as a stop-gap for the rest of the season, before Jose Mourinho or Martin O'Neill can fill the role permanently, then they are exposing their complete and utter lack of knowledge about the workings of the Anfield club.

Indeed, if you read any story about the manager going between now and Christmas, then stop reading and dismiss the writer as an idiot who is exposing his ignorance. Because, for all the hysteria surrounding Benitez's position from the outside, I can assure you that there is no such focus from within the club.

Christian Purslow, the new Managing Director, has already gone on record to guarantee that the manager will be judged only at the end of the season, with the perspective of a full campaign, and all that that entails.

Even the American owners have confirmed that for all the talk of dire consequences should Liverpool fail to reach the knockout stages of the Champions League, the reality is that they have budgeted only to reach the group stages, and recent commercial successes have actually put the club in a strong position financially.

If Liverpool do go out at the first stage, they could lose some money, but then they may just as well make more, because they will have the chance to go on a long run in the Europa League, recouping those losses.

And even though they have now won just one of their last nine games, and were again disappointing against Birmingham on Monday night, they are still only three points off the benchmark position of entering the top four in the Premier League, which is the real test for any Liverpool manager.

Now, that's not to say that everything is rosy at Anfield - it clearly isn't. Benitez has admitted to mistakes this season, many of them, and he also accepts that he must act quickly and decisively if he is to turn things around.

But he has been without 14 players at various points in the campaign so far, including his three most valuable stars - Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard and Glen Johnson.

Gerrard and Johnson returned to give the team a lift against Birmingham, and Torres should be back soon after the international break is over in a fortnight's time, when Liverpool entertain Manchester City, in a game that will say much about the likely make up of the top four this season.

It is actually making me angry, to keep hearing this uninformed nonsense that Benitez could be sacked before the season's out, because if he is, then it will go against almost 120 years of Anfield history, and believe me, not even the club's American owners are that stupid.

Benitez has had problems, big ones, but he may well be through the worst of those now, and he will have until at least the end of the season to prove that the quality squad he has built is still progressing, and can develop into genuine title contenders.

I'm not going to fall into the trap of wheeling out more facts to support Benitez like some of his allies do, because statistics about a winning record better than Paisley or Ferguson, and being voted the number one team in Europe over the past year, are completely worthless unless backed up with trophies.

Benitez knows that. He is a keen student of that proud 117 year history of the club, and all that has been achieved in that time. He is fully aware that he has at least until the end of the campaign to prove his understanding of that fact.

And if you hear anything different from an imposter claiming to know what's going on at Anfield, then you have my permission to scream.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:20 pm

made in UK wrote:
s@int wrote:I don't think he has lost the dressing room , but he certainly lost a lot of experienced backroom staff in the summer. Rafa is fond of saying how its the little details that make the difference between winning and losing. Maybe sacking so many staff and losing all that experience is part of the problem we now have? We have a catalogue of injuries, but plenty of new fitness coaches.

who did he sack?

SACKED BACKROOM STAFF:
Gary Ablett – Reserve team manager (2 years)
Piet Hamburg – Academy director (2 years)
Hugh McAuley – Under 18 coach (20 years)
Dave Shannon – Under-16 coach (20 years)
Paul Lever – Under-14 coach (18 years)
Billy Stewart - Academy goalkeeper coach (10 years)
Norman Gard - Players’ liaison officer (15 years)
Tim Divine – Education officer (15 years)
John Wright – Kit man (15 years)
Victor Salinas – Physio (4 years)
Gerard Nus - Sports scientist (2 years)
Angel Vales - Sports scientist (1 year)
Simon Farnworth – Academy physio (10 years)
John Coburn – Academy physio (8 years)
Jan de Koning – Assistant academy director (2 years)
Tim Dittmar – Academy goalkeeper coach (8 years)

by **made in UK** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:23 pm

s@int wrote:
made in UK wrote:
s@int wrote:I don't think he has lost the dressing room , but he certainly lost a lot of experienced backroom staff in the summer. Rafa is fond of saying how its the little details that make the difference between winning and losing. Maybe sacking so many staff and losing all that experience is part of the problem we now have? We have a catalogue of injuries, but plenty of new fitness coaches.

who did he sack?

SACKED BACKROOM STAFF:
Gary Ablett – Reserve team manager (2 years)
Piet Hamburg – Academy director (2 years)
Hugh McAuley – Under 18 coach (20 years)
Dave Shannon – Under-16 coach (20 years)
Paul Lever – Under-14 coach (18 years)
Billy Stewart - Academy goalkeeper coach (10 years)
Norman Gard - Players’ liaison officer (15 years)
Tim Divine – Education officer (15 years)
John Wright – Kit man (15 years)
Victor Salinas – Physio (4 years)
Gerard Nus - Sports scientist (2 years)
Angel Vales - Sports scientist (1 year)
Simon Farnworth – Academy physio (10 years)
John Coburn – Academy physio (8 years)
Jan de Koning – Assistant academy director (2 years)
Tim Dittmar – Academy goalkeeper coach (8 years)

Do you think he was forced to let go of the staff due to our financial situation?

Thats a big list, surely he didn't sack them because of differing opinions.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:27 pm

made in UK wrote:Do you think he was forced to let go of the staff due to our financial situation?

Indeed he did.

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