Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:35 am

LFC2007 wrote:I can't help but wonder how Sami would have helped if he'd still been here. If ever we needed an experienced, reliable and calm presence at the back it would be this season. Leverkusen are sitting top of the Bundesliga right now too with the fewest goals conceded - he must have had a strong hand in that.

Mate there's no "wonder" about it, and it highlights a much forgotten part of being a manager. Is Hyppia a better player than the Greek bloke? Feck me he is in a different stratosphere, and we let Sami go on a free and paid a couple of mill' for the Greek. Its not even as if the new fella is a young up and comer who will develop, he is probably as good now as he'll ever be.

It's oft repeated on here that Rafa had much dross to replace on arrival, and he did, but there has been far too much revolving door IMHO. Making it at a big club is hard enough purely from a football sense, but at Liverpool players have too often in the past had to come to terms not just with the pressure of expectation, but also to come to terms with a selection policy which has at best been baffling and at worst been daft. Players are signed for good money, often shunted out of position, played sporadically and on the face of it offered little support and encouragement.

We often discuss the nonsense of the keane situation on here and rightly so (anybody reckon we couldn't do with him at the club as of now?) but there are many others. Craig Bellamy continues to light up the Premiership at Man City, and I can't help thinking that the flirtations with him playing on either flank and then not at all can't have done wonders for his confidence and demeanor. He had a wonder season for Blackburn before we signed him, flopped with us, played really well at West Ham and now looks like one of the best players in the league at City.

Too often we have replaced good players with others who are prepared to accept the methodology, but who aren't as good a player. Sissoko for Lucas was a poor swap IMHO and there are numerous others.

As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry :angry:

" missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:22 am

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I can't help but wonder how Sami would have helped if he'd still been here. If ever we needed an experienced, reliable and calm presence at the back it would be this season. Leverkusen are sitting top of the Bundesliga right now too with the fewest goals conceded - he must have had a strong hand in that.

Mate there's no "wonder" about it, and it highlights a much forgotten part of being a manager. Is Hyppia a better player than the Greek bloke? Feck me he is in a different stratosphere, and we let Sami go on a free and paid a couple of mill' for the Greek. Its not even as if the new fella is a young up and comer who will develop, he is probably as good now as he'll ever be.

It's oft repeated on here that Rafa had much dross to replace on arrival, and he did, but there has been far too much revolving door IMHO. Making it at a big club is hard enough purely from a football sense, but at Liverpool players have too often in the past had to come to terms not just with the pressure of expectation, but also to come to terms with a selection policy which has at best been baffling and at worst been daft. Players are signed for good money, often shunted out of position, played sporadically and on the face of it offered little support and encouragement.

We often discuss the nonsense of the keane situation on here and rightly so (anybody reckon we couldn't do with him at the club as of now?) but there are many others. Craig Bellamy continues to light up the Premiership at Man City, and I can't help thinking that the flirtations with him playing on either flank and then not at all can't have done wonders for his confidence and demeanor. He had a wonder season for Blackburn before we signed him, flopped with us, played really well at West Ham and now looks like one of the best players in the league at City.

Too often we have replaced good players with others who are prepared to accept the methodology, but who aren't as good a player. Sissoko for Lucas was a poor swap IMHO and there are numerous others.

As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry " missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

Spot on Mick

The saddest admission of all :- "We have to take Fernando to Lyon because we don't have too many options."

Yeah, we are desperate because N'gog might not be fully fit. Says it all really

by **Espionage** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:01 am

s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I can't help but wonder how Sami would have helped if he'd still been here. If ever we needed an experienced, reliable and calm presence at the back it would be this season. Leverkusen are sitting top of the Bundesliga right now too with the fewest goals conceded - he must have had a strong hand in that.

Mate there's no "wonder" about it, and it highlights a much forgotten part of being a manager. Is Hyppia a better player than the Greek bloke? Feck me he is in a different stratosphere, and we let Sami go on a free and paid a couple of mill' for the Greek. Its not even as if the new fella is a young up and comer who will develop, he is probably as good now as he'll ever be.

It's oft repeated on here that Rafa had much dross to replace on arrival, and he did, but there has been far too much revolving door IMHO. Making it at a big club is hard enough purely from a football sense, but at Liverpool players have too often in the past had to come to terms not just with the pressure of expectation, but also to come to terms with a selection policy which has at best been baffling and at worst been daft. Players are signed for good money, often shunted out of position, played sporadically and on the face of it offered little support and encouragement.

We often discuss the nonsense of the keane situation on here and rightly so (anybody reckon we couldn't do with him at the club as of now?) but there are many others. Craig Bellamy continues to light up the Premiership at Man City, and I can't help thinking that the flirtations with him playing on either flank and then not at all can't have done wonders for his confidence and demeanor. He had a wonder season for Blackburn before we signed him, flopped with us, played really well at West Ham and now looks like one of the best players in the league at City.

Too often we have replaced good players with others who are prepared to accept the methodology, but who aren't as good a player. Sissoko for Lucas was a poor swap IMHO and there are numerous others.

As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry " missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

Spot on Mick

The saddest admission of all :- "We have to take Fernando to Lyon because we don't have too many options."

Yeah, we are desperate because N'gog might not be fully fit. Says it all really

That is not really fair Saint. Kuyt is an option as a striker, but he has to play on the right because we have no other options. Rafa's formation of choice has been a 4-2-3-1 since he arrived and with this formation (or any formation which uses a lone striker), your striker area is probably going to be a bit thin.

Striker is one of our thinnest areas, and with good reason. It is hard to keep a player interested if they are a specialist lone striker sitting on the bench every game (e.g. Crouch). You need a young Ngog type, who is lapping up the experience. The real problem is Babel is a waste of space.......

Rafa has if Torres is out: Ngog, Babel and Kuyt. Ngog is a player with a lot of potential who could prove to be very useful down the track. Babel and Kuyt are players that can play there if needed but will probably play on either wing. Regardless, our next signing should be to replace Babel or get a pure right midfielder to compete with Kuyt, freeing Kuyt up to play striker if needed.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:49 am

Espionage wrote:That is not really fair Saint. Kuyt is an option as a striker, but he has to play on the right because we have no other options. Rafa's formation of choice has been a 4-2-3-1 since he arrived and with this formation (or any formation which uses a lone striker), your striker area is probably going to be a bit thin.

Striker is one of our thinnest areas, and with good reason. It is hard to keep a player interested if they are a specialist lone striker sitting on the bench every game (e.g. Crouch). You need a young Ngog type, who is lapping up the experience. The real problem is Babel is a waste of space.......

Rafa has if Torres is out: Ngog, Babel and Kuyt. Ngog is a player with a lot of potential who could prove to be very useful down the track. Babel and Kuyt are players that can play there if needed but will probably play on either wing. Regardless, our next signing should be to replace Babel or get a pure right midfielder to compete with Kuyt, freeing Kuyt up to play striker if needed.

I suppose I could argue against it by referring to Robbie Keane, but as I agree that Babel is a waste of space, I will just leave it there.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:04 am

What pisses me off. Is currently we have one decent striker who is half fit yet at some point over the last 4 seasons we have had the following -

Bellamy
Keane
Crouch
Cisse

Any one of those sold strikers is better that the backup we have now.

by **lakes10** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:30 am

NANNY RED wrote:
lakes10 wrote:trying not to read to much into what Hansen but it tends to back up the "5 games to save his job" that was reported after the man u game by SSN.

Fecking hell Lakes have SSN got a mate at ML an all,

Do you know what ive had it with these media an footie phone ins all fecking crusifying Rafa , I was listening to talksport in the car tonight an im not havin a go here but there was not one scouser who phoned in an had a go an said Rafa should be sacked, It was all fans from other clubs or Liverpool fans from far an wide who believe anything they read an hear on the telly, Everyone on here knows my feeling towards our boss an i still support him, My fear is the man will walk, an ill tell you if Rafa is driven out by fecking phone ins an a media hate campaign, thatll be it for me im afraid, What the h.ell have we become when we the supposed to be best supporters in the world can drive a top manager away,
If he is Sacked ill be gutted of course i will. But if he is driven out by our own support thats it ill give up

the thing is that SNN, Talksports and The S*n are all linked.

thats why i try to use the bbc press office but a lot of the time they get reports in and dont use them.

by **stmichael** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:33 am

What does anyone expect listening to talksport? I listen to Hawksbee and Jacobs because it's the only decent show on that station. Yesterday they had John Salako on who slagged Rafa off on a personal level. "I just can't warm to him". I mean what the hell do people want? He doesn't celebrate he gets slated and then when he does show some emotion against Blackburn he gets slated for that aswell.

No as bad as that well known football expert Darren Gough though. Since when did he become a football pundit?

'One of Rafa's biggest mistakes was not keeping hold of Anelka and letting Heskey go'.

:laugh:

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:31 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:What pisses me off. Is currently we have one decent striker who is half fit yet at some point over the last 4 seasons we have had the following -

Bellamy
Keane
Crouch
Cisse

Any one of those sold strikers is better that the backup we have now.

Yes and every single one of those was sold for a reason that has been stated many times .

Michael -

Bellamy is currently playing on the left flank for Citeh and has done a number of times - he also played on the flanks for Norwich,Newcastle,Celtic,Blackburn and West Ham so its pretty easing to see that he is versatile but the problem he had with us - he didnt score enough goals -7 in 30 odd games i think it was and he was sold to help fund the arrival of torres.

Other players played out of position have been done on the odd occasion when a needs must there is only really one player who has supposedly played out of position on a regualr basis and that is kuyt and we all know the results from that

Sami - was offered a new contract to stay on at the club but wanted a fresh challenge so yes it would of been lovely to keep him to be our 3rd/4th choice cb but he wanted more .

As for players arriving and leaving they have all done so for a reason - Ie not good enough or wanting to leave the club themselves .

by **Big Niall** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:58 pm

s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I can't help but wonder how Sami would have helped if he'd still been here. If ever we needed an experienced, reliable and calm presence at the back it would be this season. Leverkusen are sitting top of the Bundesliga right now too with the fewest goals conceded - he must have had a strong hand in that.

Mate there's no "wonder" about it, and it highlights a much forgotten part of being a manager. Is Hyppia a better player than the Greek bloke? Feck me he is in a different stratosphere, and we let Sami go on a free and paid a couple of mill' for the Greek. Its not even as if the new fella is a young up and comer who will develop, he is probably as good now as he'll ever be.

It's oft repeated on here that Rafa had much dross to replace on arrival, and he did, but there has been far too much revolving door IMHO. Making it at a big club is hard enough purely from a football sense, but at Liverpool players have too often in the past had to come to terms not just with the pressure of expectation, but also to come to terms with a selection policy which has at best been baffling and at worst been daft. Players are signed for good money, often shunted out of position, played sporadically and on the face of it offered little support and encouragement.

We often discuss the nonsense of the keane situation on here and rightly so (anybody reckon we couldn't do with him at the club as of now?) but there are many others. Craig Bellamy continues to light up the Premiership at Man City, and I can't help thinking that the flirtations with him playing on either flank and then not at all can't have done wonders for his confidence and demeanor. He had a wonder season for Blackburn before we signed him, flopped with us, played really well at West Ham and now looks like one of the best players in the league at City.

Too often we have replaced good players with others who are prepared to accept the methodology, but who aren't as good a player. Sissoko for Lucas was a poor swap IMHO and there are numerous others.

As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry " missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

Spot on Mick

The saddest admission of all :- "We have to take Fernando to Lyon because we don't have too many options."

Yeah, we are desperate because N'gog might not be fully fit. Says it all really

After 5 years and 200+ million spent, why don't we have a forward besides Torres? - or are Babble,Kuyt,ngog supposed to be give us confidence that goals will be scored?

Also, Benitez wanted to sell Alonso in Summer 08 for about £10m to raise money to PART finance Gareth "uselss" Barry.

by **Owzat** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:02 pm

stmichael wrote:No as bad as that well known football expert Darren Gough though. Since when did he become a football pundit?

'One of Rafa's biggest mistakes was not keeping hold of Anelka and letting Heskey go'.

Isn't he a toykes fan? They know everything there is to know about football...............................

Niall - from memory I thought Rafa wanted £20m for Alonso and Arsenal were reportedly an interested party who weren't going to fork out £20m.

We can all bemoan the sale of such and such a player, even the strikers and lack of back-up, but would we have had nearly as much success if we'd not played the formation that Mascherano and Alonso behind Gerrard with Kuyt and Riera/Benayoun flanking Torres made work?!?

by **heimdall** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:16 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:What pisses me off. Is currently we have one decent striker who is half fit yet at some point over the last 4 seasons we have had the following -

Bellamy
Keane
Crouch
Cisse

Any one of those sold strikers is better that the backup we have now.

Yes and every single one of those was sold for a reason that has been stated many times .

Michael -

Bellamy is currently playing on the left flank for Citeh and has done a number of times - he also played on the flanks for Norwich,Newcastle,Celtic,Blackburn and West Ham so its pretty easing to see that he is versatile but the problem he had with us - he didnt score enough goals -7 in 30 odd games i think it was and he was sold to help fund the arrival of torres.

Other players played out of position have been done on the odd occasion when a needs must there is only really one player who has supposedly played out of position on a regualr basis and that is kuyt and we all know the results from that

Sami - was offered a new contract to stay on at the club but wanted a fresh challenge so yes it would of been lovely to keep him to be our 3rd/4th choice cb but he wanted more .

As for players arriving and leaving they have all done so for a reason - Ie not good enough or wanting to leave the club themselves .

Whatever the reason for them being sold the fact is that they weren't replaced and that actually is Rafa's fault.

We only have Torres as a striker, neither Babel, N'Gog or Kuyt are anywhere near good enough to be a striker in a top 4 club in the prem, actually Babel and Wash are just not good enough, end of.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:20 pm

bigmick wrote:As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry " missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

Perhaps, perhaps not - Barry is still a very good player, his form alongside Gerrard for England around that time certainly made people sit up and take note about what might be.

Yet for the one example Rafa may have inadvertently benefitted from the Parry factor, you could cite ten where it may have cost us; at least a couple we missed out on were world class, with most others being top class.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:08 pm

Big Niall wrote:
s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I can't help but wonder how Sami would have helped if he'd still been here. If ever we needed an experienced, reliable and calm presence at the back it would be this season. Leverkusen are sitting top of the Bundesliga right now too with the fewest goals conceded - he must have had a strong hand in that.

Mate there's no "wonder" about it, and it highlights a much forgotten part of being a manager. Is Hyppia a better player than the Greek bloke? Feck me he is in a different stratosphere, and we let Sami go on a free and paid a couple of mill' for the Greek. Its not even as if the new fella is a young up and comer who will develop, he is probably as good now as he'll ever be.

It's oft repeated on here that Rafa had much dross to replace on arrival, and he did, but there has been far too much revolving door IMHO. Making it at a big club is hard enough purely from a football sense, but at Liverpool players have too often in the past had to come to terms not just with the pressure of expectation, but also to come to terms with a selection policy which has at best been baffling and at worst been daft. Players are signed for good money, often shunted out of position, played sporadically and on the face of it offered little support and encouragement.

We often discuss the nonsense of the keane situation on here and rightly so (anybody reckon we couldn't do with him at the club as of now?) but there are many others. Craig Bellamy continues to light up the Premiership at Man City, and I can't help thinking that the flirtations with him playing on either flank and then not at all can't have done wonders for his confidence and demeanor. He had a wonder season for Blackburn before we signed him, flopped with us, played really well at West Ham and now looks like one of the best players in the league at City.

Too often we have replaced good players with others who are prepared to accept the methodology, but who aren't as good a player. Sissoko for Lucas was a poor swap IMHO and there are numerous others.

As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry " missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

Spot on Mick

The saddest admission of all :- "We have to take Fernando to Lyon because we don't have too many options."

Yeah, we are desperate because N'gog might not be fully fit. Says it all really

After 5 years and 200+ million spent, why don't we have a forward besides Torres? - or are Babble,Kuyt,ngog supposed to be give us confidence that goals will be scored?

Also, Benitez wanted to sell Alonso in Summer 08 for about £10m to raise money to PART finance Gareth "uselss" Barry.

From the stats in previous seasons, scoring goals has never been a problem for us, so that's youre argument blown out of the water there. Our problem has not been a second striker, but a second quality striker who will be content with sitting on the bench. Crouch, Keane, Cisse, and even Ryan f*ckin Babel are not content at doing it. So, I thought we didn't have another striker?

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:18 pm

heimdall wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:What pisses me off. Is currently we have one decent striker who is half fit yet at some point over the last 4 seasons we have had the following -

Bellamy
Keane
Crouch
Cisse

Any one of those sold strikers is better that the backup we have now.

Yes and every single one of those was sold for a reason that has been stated many times .

Michael -

Bellamy is currently playing on the left flank for Citeh and has done a number of times - he also played on the flanks for Norwich,Newcastle,Celtic,Blackburn and West Ham so its pretty easing to see that he is versatile but the problem he had with us - he didnt score enough goals -7 in 30 odd games i think it was and he was sold to help fund the arrival of torres.

Other players played out of position have been done on the odd occasion when a needs must there is only really one player who has supposedly played out of position on a regualr basis and that is kuyt and we all know the results from that

Sami - was offered a new contract to stay on at the club but wanted a fresh challenge so yes it would of been lovely to keep him to be our 3rd/4th choice cb but he wanted more .

As for players arriving and leaving they have all done so for a reason - Ie not good enough or wanting to leave the club themselves .

Whatever the reason for them being sold the fact is that they weren't replaced and that actually is Rafa's fault.

We only have Torres as a striker, neither Babel, N'Gog or Kuyt are anywhere near good enough to be a striker in a top 4 club in the prem, actually Babel and Wash are just not good enough, end of.

Still narrow minded about Ngog i see - i suggest you go watch some recent games of him playing for us - namely leeds,arsenal and the goals he has scored .

the lad has played 18 times for us and has scored 6 goals in that period - one more and thats the same as bellamy scored for us in 30 games for us despite the lad still learning his trade .

We replaced Bellamy with Torres - who would you rather have

Crouch went and replaced him with Keane and from what we are led to believe a striker was to be signed during the summer but funds where withdrawn hence the stop of the voronin transfer .

by **milou** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:20 pm

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I can't help but wonder how Sami would have helped if he'd still been here. If ever we needed an experienced, reliable and calm presence at the back it would be this season. Leverkusen are sitting top of the Bundesliga right now too with the fewest goals conceded - he must have had a strong hand in that.

Mate there's no "wonder" about it, and it highlights a much forgotten part of being a manager. Is Hyppia a better player than the Greek bloke? Feck me he is in a different stratosphere, and we let Sami go on a free and paid a couple of mill' for the Greek. Its not even as if the new fella is a young up and comer who will develop, he is probably as good now as he'll ever be.

It's oft repeated on here that Rafa had much dross to replace on arrival, and he did, but there has been far too much revolving door IMHO. Making it at a big club is hard enough purely from a football sense, but at Liverpool players have too often in the past had to come to terms not just with the pressure of expectation, but also to come to terms with a selection policy which has at best been baffling and at worst been daft. Players are signed for good money, often shunted out of position, played sporadically and on the face of it offered little support and encouragement.

We often discuss the nonsense of the keane situation on here and rightly so (anybody reckon we couldn't do with him at the club as of now?) but there are many others. Craig Bellamy continues to light up the Premiership at Man City, and I can't help thinking that the flirtations with him playing on either flank and then not at all can't have done wonders for his confidence and demeanor. He had a wonder season for Blackburn before we signed him, flopped with us, played really well at West Ham and now looks like one of the best players in the league at City.

Too often we have replaced good players with others who are prepared to accept the methodology, but who aren't as good a player. Sissoko for Lucas was a poor swap IMHO and there are numerous others.

As I say it's an aspect of management which nobody gets right every time, but my guess is you have to get it right more often than we do. People are quick to talk about the transfer situation where "fecking Parry " missed out on targets. It's worth remembering that had he moved a bit quicker, we'd have replaced Xabi Alonso (BEFORE LAST SEASON) with Gareth Barry. We could no doubt have added that one to the list had it come off.

It has been a while but I never really stopped reading. Went away bcos couldn't stand having good discussions "drowned" in all the silly one-liners & petty exchanges - pages after pages. I will see how about this time round.. :P

Anyway, anybody who thinks our current problem is not related to money must be deluding yourselves (I am not referring to you Mick). Just look at Chelsea and Man City who had the dough to spend big.. See what they can achieve almost instantly? Enough said.

Didn't we (the yanks included) also identify the problem of our less-than-maximized stadium capacity? What happened now? Project stopped indefinitely bcos of lack of funds. Mind you, it means we are collecting MILLIONS less than the likes of Man Utd & Arsenal for EVERY home match. Multiple by the no of years.. You do the sums.

And I have not heard of any club that CANNOT sack someone bcos it has no money to pay-off the manager! Never ever!

So money is a f'ucking real & obvious underlying problem we now have in our club. FACT

But could rafa have done better given the smaller budget to work with? Sure.. he should have. Some of his transfers are really bad (keanegate being the most obvious one).. but I would argue that he found some gems along the way too.

What bothers most of us is the now blatant fact that he should have kept Bellamy, Alonso, Crouch, Cisse, Sissoko, Garcia, Arbeloa, Keane, etc. Even the obvious flops like Morientes & Pennant seem better bet than some of our current players!

Surely even an idiot knows they are better than most of what we have now.. let alone a top notch manager like Rafa?! If you are gunning for titles & trophies, on a long term rebuilding plan - SURELY u buy carefully and keep majority of them along the way? Then why would you (as meticulous & calculative as Rafa is known to be) buy a player one year only to move him on 2 years or sometime even 1 year later?!

Sure.. some of them wanted to leave. But I think most are "shipped out" to free up funds to buy more expensive & presumably better players.. In other words, there is simply no money to get Torres if we still have Bellamy.. and bcos money already spent on Torres, we must get Voronin bcos he is free!

It would be equivalent for Man Utd to having to sell Fletcher and maybe even Carrick just to fund the purchase of Owen Hargraves (who is now perpetually injured). Or selling Tevez BEFORE berbatov can come in. Or selling Ronaldo before they could buy Nani & Anderson. Now tell me what trophies Man Utd would have won in the past 3 seasons?!

So we are now left with a very strong first 11 (most people will admit it is a title-winning team) but absolutely no depth. And when luck plays a fool on us with more than half of our first teamers out injured/unfit/off form.. we are f'ucking screwed!

Just imagine hypothetically, what IF the glazers bought us but G&H bought Man Utd instead? Would we have a better squad now? Would we still have Bellamy, Couch, Garcia, etc to step in when we need them to? Would we have won no 19 having gone so close last season with torres & gerrard out injured most of the time?

Don't get me wrong here.. I think Rafa sometimes made a fool out of of his selections & tactics.. but can you really blame him for "prioritizing" on UCL? An early exit will spell even more trouble for his job security and a club which in financial ruin.

By the way, I am as mad as anyone about our recent results. I actually think a regime change maybe better for the club at this point (King Kenny WILL take over if that happens! He loves LFC too much not to at least be the care-taker) but I am just giving a real perspective of the big picture here.

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