Liverpool FC Forum

by **aCe'** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:11 am

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
muzza798 wrote:I'd take Mourinho. Passion in a bottle with him. He's got the winning mentality and has a great record. Didnt he support us when he was a kid aswell? Defo worth a shout. Im sorry but Benitez has had 5 years and weve barely moved forwards. Hes taken us as far as he can imo and now we need a new manager with a new mentality who wont make absolute decisions. If Benitez gets us knocked out of the CL and we loose any more Prem games befor jan i know he will either leave or get kicked out.

2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

That suggests we have moved forwards - 28 points forward to be exact .

As well as a CL win , FA Cup , Another CL final , semi final quarter final and a CC final .

Think that suggest to me moving forward.

Maureen will not be at Liverpool at any point in the future .

Reasons - Owners,Lack of Funds , The job he has currently .

The Cl win and the Fa cup win were won with mainly other peoples players. Rafa has yet to win ANYTHING with a side that he built.
1998/1999 - 54 points 7th
1999/2000 - 67 points 4th
2000/2001 - 69 points 3rd
2001/2002 - 80points 2nd

As well as an FA CUP/LEAGUE CUP /UEFA CUP Treble

That shows progression, didn't stop us getting rid of Houllier when things went t!ts up.

Two of the biggest mistakes we have made were giving Houllier an extended contract in 2003 and Rafa a five year contract in 2009. The first cost us £6million, how much might the second one cost us ?

BAAAAAAAAAANGGGGG !

good stuff...

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:13 am

I'm not saure anybody is "lumping everything at the door" of the manager though mate. All people are doing is asking for fans to be realistic.

We have lost six matches out of seven, we are out of the league title race at the begining of November. We are out of the Carling Cup, in severe danger of not getting out of the group in Europe. In the league we are nine points behind Chelsea after eleven matches, seven points behind the Mancs, four behind Arenal having played a game more. We are a point behind Tottenham, level with Villa, a point ahead of Sunderland, two points ahead of Stoke etc etc.

Now nobodies saying we haven't been unlucky with injuries lately, but is this level of achievement a fair reflection of the quality of our squad and team? Are we over achieving or under as of now? Would it be fair to say that perhaps some peoples criticisms of our pre season campaign was actually fair and not utter sh!t after all? Is anybody really, honestly, surprised that it it turns out that none of our cover for Torres is actually up to it? Is it really so much of a bolt from the blue?

As for the old "progression" chestnut, does anybody fancy a wee bet that we'll get more points than we did last season, becasue if you do I'll lay that bet all day long.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:15 am

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
muzza798 wrote:I'd take Mourinho. Passion in a bottle with him. He's got the winning mentality and has a great record. Didnt he support us when he was a kid aswell? Defo worth a shout. Im sorry but Benitez has had 5 years and weve barely moved forwards. Hes taken us as far as he can imo and now we need a new manager with a new mentality who wont make absolute decisions. If Benitez gets us knocked out of the CL and we loose any more Prem games befor jan i know he will either leave or get kicked out.

2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

That suggests we have moved forwards - 28 points forward to be exact .

As well as a CL win , FA Cup , Another CL final , semi final quarter final and a CC final .

Think that suggest to me moving forward.

Maureen will not be at Liverpool at any point in the future .

Reasons - Owners,Lack of Funds , The job he has currently .

The Cl win and the Fa cup win were won with mainly other peoples players. Rafa has yet to win ANYTHING with a side that he built.
1998/1999 - 54 points 7th
1999/2000 - 67 points 4th
2000/2001 - 69 points 3rd
2001/2002 - 80points 2nd

As well as an FA CUP/LEAGUE CUP /UEFA CUP Treble

That shows progression, didn't stop us getting rid of Houllier when things went t!ts up.

Two of the biggest mistakes we have made were giving Houllier an extended contract in 2003 and Rafa a five year contract in 2009. The first cost us £6million, how much might the second one cost us ?

Gh went backwards in the league after the wins - we ended up 35 points behind the winners .He got another two years to see how it went with him and it didnt work out . So we are giving Rafa two months then after his most successful season in the prem ?

How many years did it take shankly ? was it 6 winning nothing

How many years did it take Taggert ? was it not 6 until he won the prem ?

Chelsea won it after spending a 250 mil in two seasons .

Wenger is the annoymoly by doing it within a season but in the last 5 years has won nothing .

So your not giving Rafa any credit for the CL win (which was won with a massive helping hand by two of Rafas signings) or the FA Cup which was helped by more of Rafas signings . Lets be consistent now Saint - you say the buck stops with the manager.

That squad that won the CL were 35 points behind the winners the season before he took over - so all credit to him and the players for winning the CL that season and the FA Cup the season before .

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:19 am

bigmick wrote:I'm not saure anybody is "lumping everything at the door" of the manager though mate. All people are doing is asking for fans to be realistic.

We have lost six matches out of seven, we are out of the league title race at the begining of November. We are out of the Carling Cup, in severe danger of not getting out of the group in Europe. In the league we are nine points behind Chelsea after eleven matches, seven points behind the Mancs, four behind Arenal having played a game more. We are a point behind Tottenham, level with Villa, a point ahead of Sunderland, two points ahead of Stoke etc etc.

Now nobodies saying we haven't been unlucky with injuries lately, but is this level of achievement a fair reflection of the quality of our squad and team? Are we over achieving or under as of now? Would it be fair to say that perhaps some peoples criticisms of our pre season campaign was actually fair and not utter sh!t after all? Is anybody really, honestly, surprised that it it turns out that none of our cover for Torres is actually up to it? Is it really so much of a bolt from the blue?

As for the old "progression" chestnut, does anybody fancy a wee bet that we'll get more points than we did last season, becasue if you do I'll lay that bet all day long.

Im pretty sure saint is stating the buck stops with the manager so is laying the blame firmly with the manager - as he suggested when the players make a mistake its rafas fault for not preparing the players or for buying them in the first place .

As you can see in my posts im laying the blame/reasons fully at the door of the whole lot - players management everything and its up to them to turn it around .

Progression may be an old chesnut but it is still a viable marker -we may well not end up with the same points tally as last season but we could still get a run together and end up second as i can still see both the mancs and chelsea loosing a number of games come the end of the season .

by **lakes10** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:19 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
s@int wrote:
lakes10 wrote:trying not to read to much into what Hansen but it tends to back up the "5 games to save his job" that was reported after the man u game by SSN.

His job is safer than Hick's wallet mate. Unless he walks or Real Madrid make the two clowns an offer they can't refuse, Rafa will be here till the end of the season.

even if we dont win the next 10 games?

The owners will wait until end of season and see if we get into CL - they know Rafa has a great record reaching the CL and thats where the money is , for them the risk of replacing Rafa (with a big compo payout) and still not getting into the top 4 is too great .

you are a fool if you think that, for one rafa will walk before he looks too bad and for another if we dont win our next game and at the weekend he will be gone.

owners always back the manager just before they sack them.

Im sorry but what else does your crystal ball say ? did you also believe "ssn" that rafa was about to be sacked last season as well before the madrid game ? Just for once stop going about the message board stating things that you dont know will happen .

You have no idea what the owners have said to rafa or what their plans are , or what his contract is , or anything .

cor are you back in your time loop

i am sure you spoke about that the other day, you dont move on much do you.

go to bed mate, you need sleep and you might find your a more happy person when you wake up.....then again i hope that the owners have sold the club when i wake up and that never happens .

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:20 am

lakes10 wrote:trying not to read to much into what Hansen but it tends to back up the "5 games to save his job" that was reported after the man u game by SSN.

Fecking hell Lakes have SSN got a mate at ML an all, :laugh:

Do you know what ive had it with these media an footie phone ins all fecking crusifying Rafa , I was listening to talksport in the car tonight an im not havin a go here but there was not one scouser who phoned in an had a go an said Rafa should be sacked, It was all fans from other clubs or Liverpool fans from far an wide who believe anything they read an hear on the telly, Everyone on here knows my feeling towards our boss an i still support him, My fear is the man will walk, an ill tell you if Rafa is driven out by fecking phone ins an a media hate campaign, thatll be it for me im afraid, What the h.ell have we become when we the supposed to be best supporters in the world can drive a top manager away,
If he is Sacked ill be gutted of course i will. But if he is driven out by our own support thats it ill give up

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:23 am

aCe' wrote:
s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
muzza798 wrote:I'd take Mourinho. Passion in a bottle with him. He's got the winning mentality and has a great record. Didnt he support us when he was a kid aswell? Defo worth a shout. Im sorry but Benitez has had 5 years and weve barely moved forwards. Hes taken us as far as he can imo and now we need a new manager with a new mentality who wont make absolute decisions. If Benitez gets us knocked out of the CL and we loose any more Prem games befor jan i know he will either leave or get kicked out.

2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

That suggests we have moved forwards - 28 points forward to be exact .

As well as a CL win , FA Cup , Another CL final , semi final quarter final and a CC final .

Think that suggest to me moving forward.

Maureen will not be at Liverpool at any point in the future .

Reasons - Owners,Lack of Funds , The job he has currently .

The Cl win and the Fa cup win were won with mainly other peoples players. Rafa has yet to win ANYTHING with a side that he built.
1998/1999 - 54 points 7th
1999/2000 - 67 points 4th
2000/2001 - 69 points 3rd
2001/2002 - 80points 2nd

As well as an FA CUP/LEAGUE CUP /UEFA CUP Treble

That shows progression, didn't stop us getting rid of Houllier when things went t!ts up.

Two of the biggest mistakes we have made were giving Houllier an extended contract in 2003 and Rafa a five year contract in 2009. The first cost us £6million, how much might the second one cost us ?

BAAAAAAAAAANGGGGG !

good stuff...

Where is the stats for 02 -03 and 03 -04 ?

GH got given two years after his best performance in the prem - Rafa gets what ? 2 -3 months before the knives are sharpened for him ?

Anyway must disappear - early meetings tommz with estate agent - cheers for a good debate saint , its nice to see it can be done without insults :bowdown

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:26 am

As I said Rafa gets it right he is a genius ..... gets it wrong and its the players fault.

Houllier won a cup the year before he was moved on, Rafa has gone 3 years without a trophy. Houllier had a heart problem 2 years before he was moved on so I think he has a reason or two (EXCUSE) for taking his eye off the ball a little?

Shankly was managing at a different time. Managers didn't buy 67 players in 5 years in his day they bought 36 players in 15 years.

So if Rafa walks and the two tw@ts appoint Big Sam YEAH you will want to give him seven years ...... because Fergie got seven ?

by **maguskwt** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:35 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
aCe' wrote:
s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
muzza798 wrote:I'd take Mourinho. Passion in a bottle with him. He's got the winning mentality and has a great record. Didnt he support us when he was a kid aswell? Defo worth a shout. Im sorry but Benitez has had 5 years and weve barely moved forwards. Hes taken us as far as he can imo and now we need a new manager with a new mentality who wont make absolute decisions. If Benitez gets us knocked out of the CL and we loose any more Prem games befor jan i know he will either leave or get kicked out.

2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

That suggests we have moved forwards - 28 points forward to be exact .

As well as a CL win , FA Cup , Another CL final , semi final quarter final and a CC final .

Think that suggest to me moving forward.

Maureen will not be at Liverpool at any point in the future .

Reasons - Owners,Lack of Funds , The job he has currently .

The Cl win and the Fa cup win were won with mainly other peoples players. Rafa has yet to win ANYTHING with a side that he built.
1998/1999 - 54 points 7th
1999/2000 - 67 points 4th
2000/2001 - 69 points 3rd
2001/2002 - 80points 2nd

As well as an FA CUP/LEAGUE CUP /UEFA CUP Treble

That shows progression, didn't stop us getting rid of Houllier when things went t!ts up.

Two of the biggest mistakes we have made were giving Houllier an extended contract in 2003 and Rafa a five year contract in 2009. The first cost us £6million, how much might the second one cost us ?

BAAAAAAAAAANGGGGG !

good stuff...

Where is the stats for 02 -03 and 03 -04 ?

That's called taking out the unwanted stats to seemingly prove one's point...

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:36 am

as i have said numerous times which you have failed to see saint is - when we win they all get the credit - players and managers - when we loose they are must accept responsibility for the loss . Its a team game - players and manager and coaches as one .

by **maguskwt** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:38 am

s@int wrote:So if Rafa walks and the two tw@ts appoint Big Sam YEAH you will want to give him seven years ...... because Fergie got seven ?

If Big-Sam-Yeahhhh - :buttrock

won the CL and FA cup in his first two years and continue to show improvement and have to work under similar circumstances as Rafa, the answer is yeah, I'd give him 7 years...

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:46 am

maguskwt wrote:That's called taking out the unwanted stats to seemingly prove one's point...

No its showing that progression is only progress when you are improving. We are not improving we are struggling 6 losses in seven to me signifies problems not progress.

No Trophies for 3 years is not progress.

by **Reg** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:49 am

DAV wrote:i dont mind being told i am wrong, but please do it in a constructive way without the insults

Dont waste your time mate it aint gonna happen.

Overall, I agree with Lando.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:50 am

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:So if Rafa walks and the two tw@ts appoint Big Sam YEAH you will want to give him seven years ...... because Fergie got seven ?

If Big-Sam-Yeahhhh - won the CL and FA cup in his first two years and continue to show improvement and have to work under similar circumstances as Rafa, the answer is yeah, I'd give him 7 years...

I am pretty sure even BIG SAM YEAH :buttrock

can manage no trophies in three years, so I suppose he might have a chance.

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:51 am

Feckin hell, Sad times

On Saturday at Craven Cottage, Liverpool’s injury problems were so severe that the back four Benítez fielded in the 3-1 defeat by Fulham — Philipp Degen, Jamie Carragher, Sotirios Kyrgiakos and Emiliano Insúa — cost just £2.5 million. Of all the Premier League defences selected at the weekend, only that of Burnley was cheaper.

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