Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:36 am

Feck it,we're fecked anyway, lets just get Keegan and go down in a blaze of glory, at least it'd be interesting

by **Roger Red Hat** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:22 am

you've gotta take into account that the players we have need to want to play under another manager. Whats to say Torres will stay with us if Martin O neill takes over? There's only certain names I'd even consider in the managers chair - Maureeniho, Kenny, M.O.N

'Arry Redknapp? give it a rest. not really good enough for LFC. Great at Spuds though.
Keegan - nah, he's a quitter. 1 disagreement with Hicks/Gillett and he'd be off in a blaze of media coverage.

by **THEBARON** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:28 am

This is the key point..
If you want to ditch Rafa ( and I am undecided ) who is a viable and available alternative?

by **stmichael** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:31 am

can't afford to sack him, simple as. the only way this would happen is if the clowns sold up and the new owners brought in their own manager which would almost be inevitable anyway.

i agree that the lack of depth in the squad is rafa's fault to a large degree. i'm mainly talking about the mid range signings, the majority of which have been poor. however he's also not been backed to go out and get his first choice targets in many case. if he had been, our side now would probably include daniel alves, simao and florent malouda.

by **Dazzer** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:39 am

stmichael wrote:can't afford to sack him, simple as. the only way this would happen is if the clowns sold up and the new owners brought in their own manager which would almost be inevitable anyway.

i agree that the lack of depth in the squad is rafa's fault to a large degree. i'm mainly talking about the mid range signings, the majority of which have been poor. however he's also not been backed to go out and get his first choice targets in many case. if he had been, our side now would probably include daniel alves, simao and florent malouda.

Well yeah and I think if someone gave me unlimited budget I could win the prem.

But we talking about making best out of what you have and Rafa hasn't done that for 4 years now has he or have I having a nightmare all this time ?

by **Dazzer** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:40 am

dawson99 wrote:Feck it,we're fecked anyway, lets just get Keegan and go down in a blaze of glory, at least it'd be interesting

haha classic tho it would be very instresting indeed.

by **access** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:57 am

Newbie here …. Whilst you may think I am of the opinion that Rafa’s days are numbered and he isn’t fit for the job … I certainly am not.

I am a concerned Liverpool ‘’long time supporter’’ aged 52.

We know this could all change in a matter of days we beat the Manc’s we then go on a run of 7 or 8 games unbeaten and all the scare mongering will disappear and this particular forum will be a thing of the past…. but in the cold light of day I still cant get my head around what Rafa has ‘really’ achieved apart from the Champions League which was a hard act to follow.

In comparison to the silverware produced and titles won, I think it still suggests [sorry] a true lack of vision and/or talent what annoys me it is interesting to see former Liverpool players Craig Bellamy and Robbie Keane (originally brought to the club by Benitez) both achieving significant success for other teams on the incline. They are both a brand of Liverpool players we or I loved – the typical game-breakers who regularly produce goals out of nothing.

OK …. Is it the players or the Manager???

And when you watch sky sports touting today the ins and outs of Liverpool and the ‘two man team’ discussed on various radio stations.

I then look at Lucas and then Babel …. Alberto Aquilani a player that has huge amounts of talent but has spent months on the treatment table …

Then finally a number of weeks ago that George Gillett publicly criticized Benitez for Liverpool’s, at the time, third defeat of the season away to Chelsea.

Gillet insistend that Benitez in the last 5 years had already had the time and finances to produce a title winning side……..

Players or Manager?

I really dont know but this is all very painful

by **Dazzer** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:01 am

access wrote:Newbie here …. Whilst you may think I am of the opinion that Rafa’s days are numbered and he isn’t fit for the job … I certainly am not.

I am a concerned Liverpool ‘’long time supporter’’ aged 52.

We know this could all change in a matter of days we beat the Manc’s we then go on a run of 7 or 8 games unbeaten and all the scare mongering will disappear and this particular forum will be a thing of the past…. but in the cold light of day I still cant get my head around what Rafa has ‘really’ achieved apart from the Champions League which was a hard act to follow.

In comparison to the silverware produced and titles won, I think it still suggests [sorry] a true lack of vision and/or talent what annoys me it is interesting to see former Liverpool players Craig Bellamy and Robbie Keane (originally brought to the club by Benitez) both achieving significant success for other teams on the incline. They are both a brand of Liverpool players we or I loved – the typical game-breakers who regularly produce goals out of nothing.

OK …. Is it the players or the Manager???

And when you watch sky sports touting today the ins and outs of Liverpool and the ‘two man team’ discussed on various radio stations.

I then look at Lucas and then Babel …. Alberto Aquilani a player that has huge amounts of talent but has spent months on the treatment table …

Then finally a number of weeks ago that George Gillett publicly criticized Benitez for Liverpool’s, at the time, third defeat of the season away to Chelsea.

Gillet insistend that Benitez in the last 5 years had already had the time and finances to produce a title winning side……..

Players or Manager?

I really dont know but this is all very painful

Even if it is players its managers fault as these are players he has hand picked to come to our club.It always falls on manager 99% of cases.Only time I say it don't is if you a manager like paul hart of pompy who has to work with players he got.

by **akumaface** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:07 am

Owzat wrote:
akumaface wrote:I think his transfer record may not be the greatest but I doubt among the top manager, he is not the worse either. Again, I think net spending is a more accurate measure as the spending only averages 20million per season. That is peanuts compare to others.

Shocker, a Liverpool fan trying to play down Rafa's spending by choosing the smaller number in 'net spending'. So Aquilani cost us -£10m did he?!?! Rafa spent £38.5m this summer, a bit more last summer. I can't believe anyone would think we spent just £5m this summer which is what the net spending would roughly work out at, now that would be a bargain!

IN (£38.5m) Johnson £17.5m, Aquilani £20m, Kyrgiakos £1.5m
OUT (£33.5m) Arbeloa £5m, Alonso £30m, Pennant released

I hope that demonstrates how crazy the idea of net spending as representative of spending is. I think it was Mick who said something along the lines of if you sell your house for £100k and buy one for £120k, does that mean your house cost £20k? Alonso was bought for £10.5m, sold for £30m so why should that £19.5m profit be factored in to make Rafa's spending look less?!?!? (which is the net effect of using net spending) Does that mean someone paid us £19.5m to sign Alonso in the first place? Does that mean Crouch cost us -£4m?!?!? Spending is spending, you don't fiddle them to make them read less painfully, all the other clubs that spend money also sell good players (their best in the case of the mancs) and do you bother doing net spending to compare with their figures or just for our's..............................??!?!?!? The mancs sold Ronaldo for £80m, they didn't spend that in two summers of spending and I'm guessing you take their sales and other clubs' sales into account then hardly anyone spends any money. Some clubs would probably run on near zero net spending by virtue of selling their best players to clubs like citeh.

The biggest problem with Rafa's spending is he spends a lot of money and we have not a lot to show for it.

I think it really depends on how you want to look at the spending. I'm not generalizing here as you are just teeth picking here. Just use your example for this past summer. We sold Alonso and arbeloa and then we got Aqualani and Glen johnson, just ignoring the fact that Alonso and arbeloa both wanted to go. Do you think then Rafa would have the extra money to add players like Johnson or Aqualani (ok, if you want to be picky, you can say he hasn't play and thus he is not a good player blah blah blah but please just assume he is or if you prefer, Silva maybe)? Nope because we don't have the money to add a single player worth 20million if we don't sell. So, we are not adding anything since we needed to sell to generate the fund and that is what i meant by net spending.

Anyway, how you want to look at it is your opinion. As it doesn't mean you are either correct or wrong here. But you think sacking Rafa now is a good move? I think it will be more devastating and the result will definitely be worse. Tell me someone who can save LFC now. I would prefer you can come up with a solution and not to concentrate on trivial things like this. Read my fecking post completely, I was just saying if Rafa is to go, he should at least finish this season and thus give us more time to search for a capable replacement and not some gap filling solution. I'm not making something up just for the sake of backing Rafa. We really don't have other choice really. You got to be do what best for the club clear headed mate.

by **puroresu** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:12 am

On the matter of transfers we have blatently failed to find good enough players on the cheap. Of course it would be too much to ask to find 5 or 6 players under 10 mil but we should have found better than we have got.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:34 am

Especially annoying when you see good english players being bought for sub 10m prices - Turner, Cattermole, Owen, Warnock, etc

All of which would improve our current squad and surely would of chosen Liverpool over the teams they are at now.

If Rafa goes, I would like a manager that appreciates the quality of English players.

by **parchpea** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:40 am

You have also to consider that until the middle of last season Benitez was convinced that rotating players was the key to success in Premiership and he assembled a squad based on that assumption. This meant that his budget was used to buy in bulk and boost squad numbers thus enabling him to rotate each and every game. Its fair to say that he changed his tune this time last year when the penny dropped we need more continuity and rotation was not working, but his previous legacy has left us with a heap of average footballers who are all much the same and not able to make an impact at the football club. If Benitez had got it right initially his budget would have much better used to recruit players to improve our first eleven and by now we may have a team of top class footballers taking to the park. Trouble is he has already cleaned us out cash wise because he stuck with the rotation idea way too long and the money has dried up. We now see him buying Johnson, one top player, and Acquliana a second, both high priced footballers who should make a difference. In years gone by he would have bought 5 or 6 players with that money and that is as much to do with the problems we have today as anything else Benitez has brought to the table.

by **Reg** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:02 pm

access wrote:Newbie here …. Whilst you may think I am of the opinion that Rafa’s days are numbered and he isn’t fit for the job … I certainly am not.

I am a concerned Liverpool ‘’long time supporter’’ aged 52.

We know this could all change in a matter of days we beat the Manc’s we then go on a run of 7 or 8 games unbeaten and all the scare mongering will disappear and this particular forum will be a thing of the past…. but in the cold light of day I still cant get my head around what Rafa has ‘really’ achieved apart from the Champions League which was a hard act to follow.

In comparison to the silverware produced and titles won, I think it still suggests [sorry] a true lack of vision and/or talent what annoys me it is interesting to see former Liverpool players Craig Bellamy and Robbie Keane (originally brought to the club by Benitez) both achieving significant success for other teams on the incline. They are both a brand of Liverpool players we or I loved – the typical game-breakers who regularly produce goals out of nothing.

OK …. Is it the players or the Manager???

And when you watch sky sports touting today the ins and outs of Liverpool and the ‘two man team’ discussed on various radio stations.

I then look at Lucas and then Babel …. Alberto Aquilani a player that has huge amounts of talent but has spent months on the treatment table …

Then finally a number of weeks ago that George Gillett publicly criticized Benitez for Liverpool’s, at the time, third defeat of the season away to Chelsea.

Gillet insistend that Benitez in the last 5 years had already had the time and finances to produce a title winning side……..

Players or Manager?

I really dont know but this is all very painful

Welcome to the forum mate, there are more than a few lads who post who are around your slender age, dont worry.

Get stuck in and enjoy yourself and ignore the silly posts such as this nonsense to sack Rafa.

by **Bammo** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:07 pm

puroresu wrote:On the matter of transfers we have blatently failed to find good enough players on the cheap. Of course it would be too much to ask to find 5 or 6 players under 10 mil but we should have found better than we have got.

Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Insua, Aurelio, Rieira, Benayoun were all under £10m.

Given that Insua and Aurelio play in the same position that still gives us a team of

Reina
Skrtel Agger Aurelio

Benayoun Rieira

who can all perform in those positions. Some of them need a kick up the :censored:

though.

by **tubby** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:10 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Especially annoying when you see good english players being bought for sub 10m prices - Turner, Cattermole, Owen, Warnock, etc

All of which would improve our current squad and surely would of chosen Liverpool over the teams they are at now.

If Rafa goes, I would like a manager that appreciates the quality of English players.

Turner cost 12Mil didn't he? Cattermole would have been a good buy for us. Would easily keep Lucas out of the squad imo.

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