Liverpool FC Forum

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:06 am

Fowler_E7 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
dawson99 wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
dawson99 wrote:no, cant agree. its naive to completely blame the owners and lay off Rafa. He has made mistake afetr istake in his signings and his stubbornness...

I'm behind the manager as ong as he is manager, but he's destroying our chances again and again. why, when we have money probs, does he spend SOOO much on a player who cant even play for months... he has signed over 60 players and most of them were useless.

Yes the owners suck, but you cant lay all the blame with them!

Because who were the alternatives? Lee Cattemole for f***s sake. For the limited money that Rafa has to spend (raised by selling players, not by the owners giving) Aquilani was the best option available in Rafa's eyes and after spending big on Xabi and Masch (in our comparison) I'd trust him when it comes to spending big on a central midfielder.

If the owners provided proper funds and didn't force Rafa to sell his players, then we would be in a better position. Truth is, it's the owners fault for bleeding the club dry of any funds from their own back pocket.

So if no alternatives just blow the lot on a crock?

We have funds, we have signed more players than most teams... just they are poor players. And the subs he is doing...madness...

I a, just becoming dissalussioned with Rafa lately, but lets just see what he can do

Since when has Aquilani been a crock? He hasn't even kicked a ball yet for us. Ask the Roma fans what they think of the player, or ineed anyone who knows Italian football. Most are very, very upset that he left. He's one of the jewels of Serie A. To buy a fully fit, on form Aquilani would have probably priced us out as per usual.

What if Ronaldo, or Kaka were injured with the recovery window of a few months. What if their value suddenly dropped because of this and we could afford to get either one of them for dirt cheap? Would anyone in here be critical of our manager then for buying a class player for under the odds? I don't think so.

aquliani is nowhere near the class of Kaka or Ronaldo though is he, so your point is irrelevant. Van der vart and Snijder who are both superior players to Aquilani were available and fit for cheaper prices in the summer and yet we passed on them, that makes zero sense to me.

Seen him play often, have you?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:13 am

devaney wrote:Fed up with the bloke to be honest. Out of the 65 players he has bought there is a handful that are up to the job but Rafa being Rafa he has also sold a handful that really were up to the job and can now be seen working successfully at other clubs wearing broad grins on their faces!

I would actually rather SOS had a serious whinge about Rafa than our fkg annoying owners. Rafa is doing far more harm to the club than those two muppets - FACT !!!!!!!!!

Rafa has spent taking into account the players he has sold about £80m over 5 years which let's face it in todays terms is not massive but can anybody name me one player that cost under £5m (Wenger style!) who will go on and be worth over £12m? I am not actually asking for the world. Insua possibly but very unlikely! I accept that Rafa has done well with Alonso and Torres deals and could probably make a combined profit on the two players of between £60/70m if he sold Torres perish the thought. That is good business but it is only 2 players out of 65.

Lando you bl.eedin muppet (amusing muppet though!) - how's you're husband doing - is he still in Walton servicing any little boy that gives him grief?

Gimp.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:16 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Reg wrote:On the subject of talent spotting, its probably a good time to remind ourselves that if Rafa is sacked an extensive Spanish contingent of talent spotters and back room staff plus probably a few players would follow him out.

Thats not the kind of instability we need in mid october is it?

thats what everyone said when Mourinho left Chelsea but it didnt happen. besides, the talent spotting team is cack and their existence or lack of, makes no difference. if they were smart, our scouts would be scouting the Arsenal scouts.

Yes, because Arsenal have consistently out-performed Liverpool since Benitez's arrival at the club... :Oo:

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:18 am

bigmick wrote:The funny thing was not that someone suggested him, it was that his trophy record got compared to Rafa. Not taking into account one of them was at Portsmouth and one of them is at Liverpool is laughable.

No Mick, you're right - Harry won 1 trohpy in his career.

Rafa has a few more in a considerably shorter time span.

Anyone who wants Redknapp, Reid, Bruce, etc as managers of Liverpool Football Club should be lead out into a deserted field away from civilization and shot in the head multiple times.

There really is no other cure for it.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:21 am

Rush Job wrote:Its seems quite simple, we cant afford players like Bent and Cattermole to sit on our bench. We dont have the transfer funds and we dont have the wage bill for it, the reason we have players like Ngog and Degan on the bench is because we cant afford a bench full of players on upwards of 50 grand a week let alone the funds to bring them in in the first place.
So the gafa is left with a choise, improve the squad or the team. He recieved so much stick in seasons gone by for to many "options and possibility" buys, buy quality for the first team was the cry fk the squad. So the past couple of seasons he has done just that with buys like Masch, Johnson, Riera and Aquilani. We just dont have the money to be able to spend 20m + on squad fillers and then pay them every week so its inevitable that if we get a number of injurys to first team players we are going to feel it, especially when the teams out of form.
I just dont see how anyone under the current regime could significantly improve squad and first team, which is why Rafa fought so hard for control through the ranks.
Unless there is a manager with a magic wand going I just dont see how bringing someone else in with the same restrictions would improve things, Mourinho wouldnt last 5 minutes with that two blocking his transfers, and I bet if he was in Rafas shoes he would have jacked it in by now.

Good post Rushie but just a couple of points. You say we couldn't afford Bent or Cattermole, but we do have Babel and Lucas who cost a million more each. I don't think that either are anywhere near as good as their Sunderland counterparts, but both have certainly been squad players for us in the past. I would imagine the wages are comparable (infact ours are probably higher I would guess). Not necessarily having a pop at the manager for buying either player as all managers buy poor value players from time to time, but just pointing out that we could afford such players.

On the much repeated "I don't think there's anyone else around that could improve things given the same restrictions", I don't buy that, and I never have. We are in a suituation where we have three points out of nine in the Champions League group. We are behind Sunderland, Villa and Tottenham in the league. We are three points ahead of Stoke and Burnley after nine matches, if we lose against the Mancs they have the opportunity to draw level with us this weekend. We have lost four games on the bounce, and every time we've played anybody any good, we've been well beaten.

Now clearly Rafa if he remains needs to improve things and sharpish. If we continue as we are we'll win nothing and be below half way in the league, and there are a stack of managers who could improve on that, bad owners or no bad owners. So I don't buy the "nobody could improve us" because from where are now, of course they could.

I am an advocate though of giving the manager at the very least until the end of the season, and I'm sure we willimprove. Whether it will be by enough, only time will tell.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:24 am

DAV wrote:i dont want to get into a who was at the game and who wasnt rubbish.
but all those lucky enough to go to the game last night, a question for you.
where i was sat on the kop everyone was booing all round me including myself. and that booing sound seemed to be coming from all over the ground. What was it like wher anyone sat??
seems to me, in my opinion that including myself alot of Liverpool supporters at the games are sad tw@ts and have no place at anfield. (going by the response to the booing i have read on various threads on this forum).

Any dickhead can buy a ticket pal.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:26 am

Dazzer wrote:watching football phone in on sky and alot of people saying same as me and you lakes rafa needs to go how can so many of us be wrong and how can so man of us be bad fans.I think we want best for the club and way I see it that is with out rafa from now on.

Because only pr*cks with a gripe ring football phone-ins you knobhead.

F*ck me - did you hear me on there? Nanny? Red Haysey, Emerald, Baldrick?

No, because we've got more f*cking sense than to sob on a w*nk show in front of the World's window-lickers.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:28 am

Dazzer wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Football phone ins on sky agree with you an Lakes

I think I take thier views over yours nan every thing that comes out ya mouth is bile.At least they are showing some signs of passion instead of just shouting "get those G@H out" like that is gonna make us play better football ?

Guy on there even said about babel is a confidence player and Rafa does not give confidence to his players to sum up pretty much how I feel these players of ours don't give our team 100% cos they don't deep down wanna play for a cold hearted manager like RB.

Disgruntled player A: "Boss, I want out. Here's my transfer request."

Cold-hearted Rafa: "Go f*ck yourself."

You live in a dream World, you silly c*nt! :laugh:

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:34 am

Igor Zidane wrote:No no Lando lad amongst the expletives ,there's far to many sensible points your making there . You should go back to abusing people because you don't make footballing posts do you?

Evidently not mate.

No doubt some will magically miss them anyway...

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:42 am

bigmick wrote:On a bit of a roll Lando I see Fair play I guess.

Just out of interest and since you're kind of discussing football, do you think Rafa has made any mistakes at all from the end of last season to where we are now?

Everyone makes mistakes.

But accusing Rafa of settling for a draw when he put a striker on is sheer lunacy.

No-one is infallible, but the way every single thing Rafa does is scrutinized is just unhealthy. The man doesn't deserve the sh*t the inbreds give him - a lesser man (Mourinho) would have left long ago.

Oh, and for all the silly sods who want him - it will never happen. He can't function if he's not working with the most expensive team in the league.

by **made in UK** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:54 am

i have to admit though people are going a little over board with the criticisms of Rafa, some of it is justified. But it does seem that people want to keep putting the boot into the man when he's down.

I didn't realise that if the team lost four games on the trot it means he's to be sacked. Wait till the end of the season before we get carried away with threads like this I reckon.

Sacking him now isn't logical, lets see if Aquallani can come in, help improve things and go from there. Come the end of May we'll see.

by **Rush Job** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:00 am

bigmick wrote:
Rush Job wrote:Its seems quite simple, we cant afford players like Bent and Cattermole to sit on our bench. We dont have the transfer funds and we dont have the wage bill for it, the reason we have players like Ngog and Degan on the bench is because we cant afford a bench full of players on upwards of 50 grand a week let alone the funds to bring them in in the first place.
So the gafa is left with a choise, improve the squad or the team. He recieved so much stick in seasons gone by for to many "options and possibility" buys, buy quality for the first team was the cry fk the squad. So the past couple of seasons he has done just that with buys like Masch, Johnson, Riera and Aquilani. We just dont have the money to be able to spend 20m + on squad fillers and then pay them every week so its inevitable that if we get a number of injurys to first team players we are going to feel it, especially when the teams out of form.
I just dont see how anyone under the current regime could significantly improve squad and first team, which is why Rafa fought so hard for control through the ranks.
Unless there is a manager with a magic wand going I just dont see how bringing someone else in with the same restrictions would improve things, Mourinho wouldnt last 5 minutes with that two blocking his transfers, and I bet if he was in Rafas shoes he would have jacked it in by now.

Good post Rushie but just a couple of points. You say we couldn't afford Bent or Cattermole, but we do have Babel and Lucas who cost a million more each. I don't think that either are anywhere near as good as their Sunderland counterparts, but both have certainly been squad players for us in the past. I would imagine the wages are comparable (infact ours are probably higher I would guess). Not necessarily having a pop at the manager for buying either player as all managers buy poor value players from time to time, but just pointing out that we could afford such players.

On the much repeated "I don't think there's anyone else around that could improve things given the same restrictions", I don't buy that, and I never have. We are in a suituation where we have three points out of nine in the Champions League group. We are behind Sunderland, Villa and Tottenham in the league. We are three points ahead of Stoke and Burnley after nine matches, if we lose against the Mancs they have the opportunity to draw level with us this weekend. We have lost four games on the bounce, and every time we've played anybody any good, we've been well beaten.

Now clearly Rafa if he remains needs to improve things and sharpish. If we continue as we are we'll win nothing and be below half way in the league, and there are a stack of managers who could improve on that, bad owners or no bad owners. So I don't buy the "nobody could improve us" because from where are now, of course they could.

I am an advocate though of giving the manager at the very least until the end of the season, and I'm sure we willimprove. Whether it will be by enough, only time will tell.

If we were to go in for either of those players we would have to stump up more than they did to aquire them and by the same token we would have to give them an improved deal. If we were to sign Bent he would surely command a higher wage than that of either Babel or Lucas who were bought for their potencial because we cant afford a couple or "world class" players every season and their wages, all be it for good money but buys like that are allways going to be risky and are best done when you can afford to take a hit, but again if we dont have the money for proven class.
Your point on someone else doing a better job seems a little short sighted to me. Your saying a different guy could have done better over our first 10 or so games..... well obviously, but your taking his worse run as standard.
By the same token could someone have taken us on a better run last season, or inspired us greater in Istanbul?
I`m just unsure mate TBH.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:09 am

Rush Job wrote:I`m just unsure mate TBH.

I don't think anyone's got all the answers mate. For my part, even though I'm a confirmed "non fan" of the manager, it's hard for me to reconcile getting rid of him either mid season, or only a few months after we came close to winning the title.

The reasoning that most of his defenders put up is fundamentally flawed and I'm happy to point that out as it comes along, but that doesn't mean we should be getting rid as of now I don't think.

by **Octsky** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:10 am

Rafa could have saved us 25 mil (Johnson and Dossena) if he had given our youngster more chance.
Before the Lyon match i dont know Kelly can play and cross so well. As everyone knows, Isuna can fill in the left back slot comfortably.
Johnson is a good signing but more of a luxury than necessity ie) World class CF or CM
Now i wonder what Nemeth can do for us if he hasnt went to Greece in exchange for a defender who played one match, cost us 2 mil and face a long injury layoff.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:15 am

It's probably off topic (well it certainly is) but I liked Kelly too. It can't be too long before someone ventures the option of playing him right back and moving Johnson to right midfield. It's amazing how the introduction of one home grown player who can hold his end up suddenly makes the squad look deeper, as then you'd have Kuyt and Aquilani and Gerrard all able to play off Torres.

On a slightly separate and similarly off topic note, I think one of our problems this season is we haven't got a single player in the team who is a steady Eddie, you know what you're going to get every week. A Stevie Finnan type, a Hamman, a Carra of previous seasons. Not necessarily the managers fault or indeed anyone elses, just an observation.

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